2021 1.8 Hybrid GR Sport - 2 questions

[rado77]

Yep...now I see (on mobile) that I uploaded pictures in different order :-) New is with that red vaseline - there's much more rubber at the bottom of new rubber bushing

[TonyHSD]

On stabiliser bar bushes  no lubricant should be applied.  
The bushes has no bearing function but only flex. If they are turned beyond they flex capacity or lubed with anything and flex more then they can hold flexing it will shorten their life. These are dry fit only, unless specifically noted by the manufacturer to have anything lubricant on the work surface. 

[rado77]

So front brake squeaks (after full stop / releasing brake pedal) fixed by guide pins replacement (catalog number 04952-02311) - this is gone, yupiiiii ! 🙂  Tapping noise on small bumps solved by stabilizer bushings replacement (catalog number 48815-10130) - I'll test it today on the road where it always tapped...

[Woofwoof]

4 hours ago, rado77 said:

So front brake squeaks (after full stop / releasing brake pedal) fixed by guide pins replacement (catalog number 04952-02311) - this is gone, yupiiiii ! 🙂  Tapping noise on small bumps solved by stabilizer bushings replacement (catalog number 48815-10130) - I'll test it today on the road where it always tapped...

Was this done by dealer under warranty?

[rado77]

Yes, under warranty. Unfortunately, tapping noise on bumps is still there :-( I sent an e-mail to dealership for next steps...suggested to check both stabilizator bars. They also changed both lower control arm joints - also didn't help

[TonyHSD]

Previously here someone with similar model has had same issues and dealer replaced stabiliser bar bushes and links and didn’t make any change. Then they replaced the front shock absorbers and he reported that the knocking noise has gone. It seems like your dealer mechanics aren’t exactly sure what has cause the problems. Good at least they do all the work under warranty and don’t charge you for anything.  
These cars in general are rock solid and suspension particularly is well designed and robust. Except when there might be a manufacturer defective part fitted, happens sometimes even with Toyota. 

Do you still get these engine rattling on cold start, and what the dealer said about them ? 

I had recently a very long rattling on cold start, was not pleasant at all. What I did before I started the car was turning ON and switching to EV mode and heating off so the car remains in ev mode, move the car to another parking spot and switched off. Then in the evening I did exactly the same procedure, and left the car for few hours. Then I went out , started the car and when engine kicked in there were rattling noises and for the longest ever time to date. You can try this too and see if yours will be rattling after playing with ev mode. 👍

[rado77]

Thanks for info again, Tony 😉  Yeah, it could be also shock absorbers....but guy in dealerhip said that "let's go first by cheaper way" ...he also mentioned shock absorbers, but we will continue this "investigation" with stabilizator bars. The noise isn't big, I can live with that...but it's there 🙂  And it's like...hard plastic. But I have to wait 1 month for replacement.

I completely forgot on engine rattling question....but of course, it's caused by cam variator (weak material of it's locking pin) + lack of oil after longer stop. The sound is caused mainly by strenght of valve lifters and valve springs against rotating camshaft...and that's causing that t-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d sound...because variator's locking pin is not able to hold in his hole.

I dismantled VVT variator on Renault Megane (it's completely similar variator design then Toyota) and I found that pin has dried edge, and it's hole too. Renault produced 3 upgrades of variator during 10 year and uses stronger material for the pin. Renault's latest 3rd generation of variator lasts 8 years on my Renault Fluence 1.6 till it starts to rattle almost each morning 

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, rado77 said:

Thanks for info again, Tony 😉  Yeah, it could be also shock absorbers....but guy in dealerhip said that "let's go first by cheaper way" ...he also mentioned shock absorbers, but we will continue this "investigation" with stabilizator bars. The noise isn't big, I can live with that...but it's there 🙂  And it's like...hard plastic. But I have to wait 1 month for replacement.

I completely forgot on engine rattling question....but of course, it's caused by cam variator (weak material of it's locking pin) + lack of oil after longer stop. The sound is caused mainly by strenght of valve lifters and valve springs against rotating camshaft...and that's causing that t-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d sound...because variator's locking pin is not able to hold in his hole.

I dismantled VVT variator on Renault Megane (it's completely similar variator design then Toyota) and I found that pin has dried edge, and it's hole too. Renault produced 3 upgrades of variator during 10 year and uses stronger material for the pin. Renault's latest 3rd generation of variator lasts 8 years on my Renault Fluence 1.6 till it starts to rattle almost each morning 

I agree for old engines on used cars but your it’s almost brand new, no rattling should have happened. These rattling can be from a completely different source, engine knocking and clutch damper springs clunking, they sound similar. This event happens when there is moisture locked inside intake manifold, poor quality fuel or moisture in the fuel, blocked egr system. 
Interestingly with my case few times the engine is rattling after I had played with ev mode , started the car twice , moved around but didn’t start the engine. There is something that happens when we start the car the ice get prepared for start too but then immediately after the car is set in ev mode and engine remains shut off. Then this is repeated again. And at the third time when finally the engine has started something along the intake or fuel delivery gets messed up and the engine is knocking fouling us that it’s from the vvti sprocket. 
What type of petrol are you using E5 or E10 ? 

[rado77]

E10 and every second full tank i give there E10 Premium. Interesting with these EV experiments. I'm  also not sure if dealer can accept the fact that this "rattling" occured only 3 times per 4 months....I cannot prove it :-) But I have still 2 years standard warranty + I plan an upgrade another 2 years. But maybe I'm paranoic from previous cars :-) The worse rattling lasts 2 seconds, and another two rattlings only 1 second or something like that... in manual I red that some noises are normal for this hybrid system, like engine starts, stops in some cases, some vibration is also normal behavior... I'll wait with this at least 1 year to create statistics

[Gray86]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:09 AM, Devon Aygo said:

There is a bulletin for front suspension noise which may apply:

CP-00498T-TME

 

Subject: Abnormal Noise During Driving Stabilizer Bar

 

Area of Application: All Markets

 

Models – Model Codes: Corolla - MZEH12, NRE210, ZWE211 

 

Description of the phenomenon

Some customers may experience and report knocking noise from front stabilizer bar when driving over speed bumps, potholes or when driving on bad roads. Noise is caused by Bush, front stabilizer bar interference with the body when driving in the defined conditions. No production change. Parts improvement as below described, is available as customer satisfaction solution.

Production change

No production change.

Parts improvement as below described, is available as customer satisfaction solution.

 

Applicable Body Styles

Only the below mentioned vehicles and body styles are applicable for customer satisfaction solution.

Model	Model Code	Body Style
Corolla	MZEH12	Hatchback
Corolla	MZEH12	Wagon
Corolla	ZWE211	Hatchback
Corolla	NRE210	Hatchback
Corolla	NRE210	Wagon

For simplicity:

MZEH12 = 2.0,

ZWE211 = 1.8,

NRE210 = 1.2T

Wagon = Touring Sport

Thanks for this - I’ll print this info & hand it to them as a prompt 

[rado77]

Small update - noise from front stabilizer bars is worse after few weeks. 20th of April I'll go to the dealer for replacement (I don't know if Toyota cars are so good in quality that they don't have stabilizer bars on stock...)

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, rado77 said:

Small update - noise from front stabilizer bars is worse after few weeks. 20th of April I'll go to the dealer for replacement (I don't know if Toyota cars are so good in quality that they don't have stabilizer bars on stock...)

They put grease on and destroyed the function of the bushes. These bushes had no bearing function and the stabiliser bar should only flex as much as the rubber bush allow to flex and once the bar has rotated inside the bush either because a grease or other lubricant been used or the car had a jump over speed bumps for example the rubber bushes will start to deteriorate quickly and it will become worn faster. New bushes correct fitting is dry and with wheels on the ground or on a ramp and not in the air and brackets tightened to correct torque specs only, any of above not be done right  and the bushes will have very short life. 👍 And yes these cars has rock solid suspension and in most cases the trouble is either faulty shocks or mechanics intervention, less been working on the car better for overall condition. 

[rado77]

Fortunatelly those pictures of bushes are not from my car...I found them somewhere here just as an example of it's thickness. Of course, it must be dry - I changed them on my 2 previous cars

[rado77]

So finally done. Dealer told me that they replaced both stabilizer bars, now it's quiet ;-) He showed me old ones - there was easy movement on upper joints..by fingers. They have some procedure from Toyota that they have to check stab bars by fixing in a vise and measure deflection of each joint with some tool. I saw picture where this joint "movement" was on the limit (upper joint, driver side) - from where I heard most of noises. So it's finally fixed and I HOPE that there will be no other issue...at least next few years :-) Replacement was original Toyota parts

[Cyker]

Thanks for posting back how you got on

I wonder how the bushings got so worn so quickly - I'm sure they normally last longer than that!

 

[rado77]

Yeah, I dont know history of this car...it was used by Toyota Finance guy 1 year and then they decided to sell it. Two possibilities here - he had some road to home made of concrete panels and drove through it few times daily...or....he drove 60 miles per hour through retarders (I hope that word "retarder" is the right one)...you know...that stupid thing on the road to slow down the car... :-)

[Cyker]

Speed humps/cushions?

Is there any sign the car had some wrap or decals removed which may have had words such as "Gazoo", "World", "Rally" and/or "Team" on them perchance...?   

 

[rado77]

No no, it's completely stock, original, also with full history...hmmm..what history...just 1st warranty maintenance after 1st year. I'm sure that he didn't care about future of that car...But everything...I mean really eveything is like new - interior, exterior, shiny engine, shiny brakes, no scratches, nothing. That's why I thought that he used that car on bad road daily...that's only one reason for that stabilizer bar joints clearance. Dealership guys checked whole undercarriage including diagnostics and everything is in perfect condition

[TonyHSD]

Haha, maybe he was just a beemer guy and did not liked the Corolla 🙂

[Cyker]

21 hours ago, rado77 said:

No no, it's completely stock, original, also with full history...hmmm..what history...just 1st warranty maintenance after 1st year. I'm sure that he didn't care about future of that car...But everything...I mean really eveything is like new - interior, exterior, shiny engine, shiny brakes, no scratches, nothing. That's why I thought that he used that car on bad road daily...that's only one reason for that stabilizer bar joints clearance. Dealership guys checked whole undercarriage including diagnostics and everything is in perfect condition

Sorry I was just making a joke that you'd been sold an ex-GR WRC Rally car  

[Gray86]

Mine has been into the garage today for diagnosis, their conclusion was the stabiliser (anti roll bar bushes), I then mentioned the TSB relating to this which then confirmed the replacement is in line with that TSB. seemed a little quieter on the way home so perhaps the dealer put something on them as a temporary fix. 
 

booked in again in 2 weeks for replacement. Dealer was great (Oakmere in Northwich) 

[rado77]

Yep, new bushes will be thicker at it's "bottom side". As temp fix, they (maybe) inserted something between current bushes and frame ;-)

[Gray86]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:52 PM, Gray86 said:

Mine has been into the garage today for diagnosis, their conclusion was the stabiliser (anti roll bar bushes), I then mentioned the TSB relating to this which then confirmed the replacement is in line with that TSB. seemed a little quieter on the way home so perhaps the dealer put something on them as a temporary fix. 
 

booked in again in 2 weeks for replacement. Dealer was great (Oakmere in Northwich) 

Today I had fitted the new bushes as per the TSB, and. . . . ITS EXACTLY THE SAME. Dealer tech picked up on it on the test drive and proposes a new shock absorber. Back in again in 2 weeks for that to be fitted. Hopefully that will sort it. Having a hire car next time - likely an Aygo X for the day 

[Gray86]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:15 PM, Gray86 said:

Today I had fitted the new bushes as per the TSB, and. . . . ITS EXACTLY THE SAME. Dealer tech picked up on it on the test drive and proposes a new shock absorber. Back in again in 2 weeks for that to be fitted. Hopefully that will sort it. Having a hire car next time - likely an Aygo X for the day 

And I now have a new drop link as well as shock absorber / strut (the mechanic broke the drop link when removing it, so had to order another). So with the stabiliser bar TSB, shock absorber & drop link guess what? STILL DOING IT 😩

 

what is left to be noisy? Can surely only be the strut top mount / bearing? Squeaky rattle over pronounced bumps in the road. Slight knock as well 

[rado77]

Hmmm that's strange :-( On mine they replaced: front brake pins (guides) , drop links, stabilizer bar bushings. New drop links solved that knocking problem. There's still a liiiitle knock sometimes, but it's 90% better than it was. But you mentioned "squeaky rattle" and it looks like something different. If it squeaks, it CAN BE stabilizer bar bushings...but this squeaking appeared on cars 8 years old or more