Tooth Hurty

[Bper]

14 minutes ago, Big_D said:

I'm also looking at having to have some dental work done in the near future. Reading this thread has scared me as to the exorbitant prices being charged. I am luckier than most in that I have a Medical policy through work. It doesn't pay out a huge amount for dental work, but at least I;ll be able to recover £250 of the thousands I can expect to pay. I may have to bite the bullet (and perhaps lose another tooth) and pay up. 

I am going to enjoy the weekend. It's probably going to be the last time I'll be able to afford to go out for a while. I can't believe the prices being charged.  

Hi bob,

It depends on what you need doing, options may be available and we are not always aware of that.👍 

[Big_D]

Too true. I still have a feeling, that although my teeth may not hurt after the dentist, my pocket certainly will

[Rhymes with Paris]

19 hours ago, Big_D said:

Too true. I still have a feeling, that although my teeth may not hurt after the dentist, my pocket certainly will

It's a necessity Bob, and if Berkshire is currently the same as here, as in no NHS dentists taking on patients, then not much choice I'm afraid.

Believe me, expensive as it is, getting rid of severe tooth pain is worth any amount of money.

I think in economic terms, it's called an inelastic demand,as in there will always be a demand for dentist treatment, and a limited supply of it.

I have heard recently of dental insurance plans, but of course you cannot get insured for existing conditions, like Bupa for instance not insuring existing medical conditions.

My recent treatment at £476 when I think about it, covered around 4 hours of of fairly difficult work, along with all the equipment needed and suitable premises, and the dentist giving herself some pretty bad backache due to having to stand due to my breathing problems.

So compared to a main dealer or garage, charging around £120 an hour for an unskilled apprentice to faff about with a Toyota, and messing it up, doesn't seem too bad really.

 

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

On 4/14/2023 at 8:19 PM, Bper said:

Hi Paul ,

Was the sinus proximity an issue with your sinus or is this for future implants to replace the missing teeth. Your right for those of us that can afford to have treatment we are lucky as there is no worse pain then tooth ache.

What troubles me is if the costs for private treatment continue to rise at the levels they are will we still be able to afford it. I think insurance policies may well be the only way to cover these costs as time goes on.

The sinus proximity made the surgery very tricky Bob, due to the two extractions being on the upper palate, and them being the two rearmost teeth.

Hence not much distance between the sinus cavity and the teeth roots.

Add to that the complications of age, such as losing bone mass and density, and the necessity of removing the roots which of course splintered, and had to come out somehow,so incisions have to be made to get these out, and then stitched.

The danger of poking through into the sinus with instruments,or a tooth splinter going through,takes a lot of skill and care to prevent it happening.

Not sure about any options to fill the gap until I go back to have the stitches out.

Sorry if this sounds like a horror story, but as anyone who has had this kind of treatment will know, it's no picnic.

As regards affordability, I certainly cannot afford this from income, but only because I have saved what I can, and do live very frugally.

Again I doubt that existing conditions could be insured against.

And you are right in that, with the impossibility of getting on a NHS dentists register round here,if I had no savings I would indeed be despairing.

 

[Bper]

4 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

The sinus proximity made the surgery very tricky Bob, due to the two extractions being on the upper palate, and them being the two rearmost teeth.

Hence not much distance between the sinus cavity and the teeth roots.

Add to that the complications of age, such as losing bone mass and density, and the necessity of removing the roots which of course splintered, and had to come out somehow,so incisions have to be made to get these out, and then stitched.

The danger of poking through into the sinus with instruments,or a tooth splinter going through,takes a lot of skill and care to prevent it happening.

Not sure about any options to fill the gap until I go back to have the stitches out.

Sorry if this sounds like a horror story, but as anyone who has had this kind of treatment will know, it's no picnic.

As regards affordability, I certainly cannot afford this from income, but only because I have saved what I can, and do live very frugally.

Again I doubt that existing conditions could be insured against.

And you are right in that, with the impossibility of getting on a NHS dentists register round here,if I had no savings I would indeed be despairing.

 

Hi Paul,

My opinion is that I believe no one wants to go down the insurance route for dental treatment but the goverment dental practice contracts have not worked. I wonder how many people are aware that if the NHS practices fail to fulfill their contract, then money given to them is clawed back.

Dentists are private contractors to the NHS are not employed by the health service direct.

Many of them do not even have waiting lists and those that do can't give an appointment time. This is for routine treatment let alone serious issues.

It is correct that Bupa will not cover new patients with pre existing conditions and should you be able to find an insurer who is prepared to cover you, then no doubt the premiums will be sky high.

However, this lack of dentists will only become more protracted with the increase in population and lifestye and the fact that we are living longer along with the financial restraints government has placed upon this.

As most of the dental practices are independent businesses then the focus on them surely will always be for the owners to prioritise both growth and profit for long term sustainability. If the business is affected by uneconomical contracts then they will obviously focus on the area of business that not only works for them but will give them the best long term benefits for their business.

NHS recent reforms are supposed to improve the functionality of dentistry if this is the case why have so many opted out.

How many business sectors in this position would not do the same? unfortunately, morality does not pay the bills.

For many of us we have already had to accept that private treatment has now become the norm as we do not have alternative choices. What do any of us do when we are in pain with nowhere else to turn to? perhaps going  to A&E with the hope that they can treat the problem. But by doing this, it compounds the NHS problems that already exist. Some people are even resorting to home dentistry.

Perhaps as an example a type of scheme that could operate is by government funding 75% and a 25% insurance policy to cover the rest may work.

Children under a given age along with the elderly who are financially unable to afford this will have exemption from payment. Pre-existing conditions will be covered and costs of these treatments determined by all three parties government, insurers and dental practices.

Some of the best dental health care systems in other countries work on similar schemes.

Continuing with our existing system has been failing for years and many of us could see this when either dental practices started to delay appointments, stopped taking new patients and only doing treatments under a private basis despite these treatments falling within the NHS banding.

In 2022 reforms on dental treatments to allow dental therapists to carry out routine work along with fairer dental contracts had been introduced but how many of us have actually seen any changes.

No doubt some people are still fortunate to live in areas where NHS treatment still works for them and do not have to experience the problems faced by those whose NHS dental practices have either changed over to private or shutdown completely.

It needs to be accepted that the current system has been failing for years and I believe that government's do not have any real will to resolve this. If they did then the dental contracts would have been fairer long ago.

There are many people who will have ideas to help resolve this but whatever happens it can't continue in its present form. I would certainly welcome others opinions on how they believe this situation can be resolved.

[Roy124]

I am a member of Benenden.  This costs me about £25/m.  When the NHS cannot give you an appointment within 18 weeks they may authorise a private consultation.  My wife has had two operations through them. 

As a member I can also join a cashplan.  This costs about £65/m for top cover for the two of us. We claim for optical and dentistry. This covers 10 months of our premium.  We can also claim for NHS hospital in or out patient at £40/day.  There is a further £1,000 we can claim against complimentary treatments. 

If you can get a cash plan at a good price and expect to use it for several things it spreads the cost. 

[Bper]

22 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I am a member of Benenden.  This costs me about £25/m.  When the NHS cannot give you an appointment within 18 weeks they may authorise a private consultation.  My wife has had two operations through them. 

As a member I can also join a cashplan.  This costs about £65/m for top cover for the two of us. We claim for optical and dentistry. This covers 10 months of our premium.  We can also claim for NHS hospital in or out patient at £40/day.  There is a further £1,000 we can claim against complimentary treatments. 

If you can get a cash plan at a good price and expect to use it for several things it spreads the cost. 

 

Glad it works for you, I would like to know what schemes others have found that also works for them. 👍

[Bper]

On 4/16/2023 at 12:51 PM, Rhymes with Paris said:

The sinus proximity made the surgery very tricky Bob, due to the two extractions being on the upper palate, and them being the two rearmost teeth.

Hence not much distance between the sinus cavity and the teeth roots.

Add to that the complications of age, such as losing bone mass and density, and the necessity of removing the roots which of course splintered, and had to come out somehow,so incisions have to be made to get these out, and then stitched.

The danger of poking through into the sinus with instruments,or a tooth splinter going through,takes a lot of skill and care to prevent it happening.

Not sure about any options to fill the gap until I go back to have the stitches out.

Sorry if this sounds like a horror story, but as anyone who has had this kind of treatment will know, it's no picnic.

As regards affordability, I certainly cannot afford this from income, but only because I have saved what I can, and do live very frugally.

Again I doubt that existing conditions could be insured against.

And you are right in that, with the impossibility of getting on a NHS dentists register round here,if I had no savings I would indeed be despairing.

 

Paul, I sympathise with you it's not nice to have this work done I know I have been there myself. It may suprise you its not just older people that suffer from lack of bone mass and density many their 30s 40s and 50s have this problem that's why many have sinus lifts.

I know I had two myself before several implants and I was in my 50s when I needed it👍

[FROSTYBALLS]

10 minutes ago, Bper said:

Glad it works for you, I would like to know what schemes others have found that also works for them.

I'm also a member of Benenden (since 1976). We have used Benenden for physio when our local hospital couldn't fit us in for six weeks. We will use them in a few years time when my wife's cataracts are ready to be done.

I have a cash plan with Birmingham Hospital Saturday Fund (BHSF) - joined Forresters originally and they were bought out by BHSF. My wife has her own cash plan with Simply Health. We claim for opticians, chiropody, hospital day patient and in-patient, etc, and will claim for dental when my wife has a crown done in a few months.

I had an op in 2019 which entailed 8 days as an in-patient, and, a week after initial discharge, a further 9 days due to sepsis. The claim for the two stays from my cash plan was more than 25 times the monthly premium. 

We both have policies under a dental capitation scheme with Denplan, which covers routine dental treatment (check ups, x-rays, extractions, fillings, emergencies, etc).

[Rhymes with Paris]

That sounds a good plan Frosty, I have heard of the excellent Birmingham dental hospital,if I am remembering right.

Is this accessable by anyone, do you know?

 

[shikamaroxu]

Sorry to hear about your dental woes. It's frustrating when dental work comes with a hefty price tag, right? 😩 Those dentists driving around in Teslas and Ferraris sure make us wonder!

[adelynschans]

I sympathize with your dental troubles too. It can be exasperating when dental procedures come with a substantial financial burden.
If you're looking for more affordable dental options, have you considered checking out an Invisalign preferred provider? They offer invisible orthodontics that might be a cost-effective alternative for your dental needs.
As for dreaming of winning the lottery, hey, we've all been there! While it might not solve all your dental expenses, it's always nice to have a bit of luck on your side.

 

[Bper]

Have you actually checked out the reviews of this company? if not, I suggest you do.

The Invisalign deals with the straightening of teeth, which involves retainers and the treatment can be both painful and take many months depending of the level of retainer work required, it is also expensive.

For those that are looking for this type of treatment, it may be beneficial but they should also look at other affordable treatments as well.

Bridges, implants, fillings, whitening and general gum issues are carried out in both NHS and private practices and in many practices, despite a list of the dental treatments scaled under the NHS, they will point you towards private treatment.

Many people opt for dental plans but one size doesn't fit all and cover is not exhaustive.

Dentists are well aware of the niche position they find themselves in and have or are capitalising on this accordingly.

Many people either cannot afford to go for treatment even with the NHS charge band or are just not bothering. It was highlighted recently in the media that many have been resorting to extracting teeth themselves.

This situation shouldn't be allowed to continue as everybody has a right to affordable dental treatment its just as much of a necessity as seeing a doctor.

If the cost continues to escalate, and with so many NHS dental practices opting out to go private, then treatment will become unaffordable for everyone other than the very rich. And if this happens, what do we do?

 

 

 

[cobh18]

Re 'it's just as much of a necessity as seeing a doctor." Indeed.  My, limited, understanding is that dental issues affect general health, through e.g. inflammation and nasties into the blood streaming then to cardiac issues. Typical of this govt. to cause further problems by banjaxing health care. Must be money in it, I suppose.

[Bper]

54 minutes ago, cobh18 said:

Re 'it's just as much of a necessity as seeing a doctor." Indeed.  My, limited, understanding is that dental issues affect general health, through e.g. inflammation and nasties into the blood streaming then to cardiac issues. Typical of this govt. to cause further problems by banjaxing health care. Must be money in it, I suppose.

Hi John, you are right tooth problems left unchecked can lead to serious health issues. That's why it is so important for dental charges and treatment to be in affordable for everyone. Unfortunately unless a different structure is put in place this is likely to continue and will inevitably lead to a further increase in the NHS services.

[jackwilliam11]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:42 PM, Roy124 said:

Many years ago we were talking with a Canadian who was soon to marry.  She mentioned, as if it was normal, that she was to have all her teeth removed before the wedding. 

It was to avoid future unaffordable treatment. 🥴

It's interesting to hear about the perspective of the Canadian you spoke with years ago. The idea of having all her teeth removed before her wedding, even though it sounds unusual, might have been a practical decision driven by concerns about potential expensive dental treatments in the future. Dental care costs can indeed be a significant consideration, and people sometimes make unexpected choices to ensure their well-being in the long run. By the way, if you're thinking about a unique gift, perhaps something related to dental health or wellness could be a thoughtful and unique idea!

[Bper]

6 hours ago, jackwilliam11 said:

It's interesting to hear about the perspective of the Canadian you spoke with years ago. The idea of having all her teeth removed before her wedding, even though it sounds unusual, might have been a practical decision driven by concerns about potential expensive dental treatments in the future. Dental care costs can indeed be a significant consideration, and people sometimes make unexpected choices to ensure their well-being in the long run. By the way, if you're thinking about a unique gift, perhaps something related to dental health or wellness could be a thoughtful and unique idea!

Hi jack,

I can offer you some advice with my experience if you were considering having all your teeth removed in what can often be seen as long term cost effective dental treatment.

I have been unlucky to have suffered over many years from problems with my teeth and about 10 years ago I decided enough was enough. I had gone through losing a number of teeth over a few years and needed to resolve this as it was costing me a fortune along with the pain I was experiencing.

I went to visit a number of private dentists as the NHS did not include the treatment I needed.

After various scans, it was revealed that I needed several implants along with two sinus lifts as I did not have enough jaw bone to support the implants. I was quoted in 2013 in London £18,000 which I was not prepared to pay.

I found a London clinic that could carry out the treatment in Budapest for £8,000. I had the two sinus lifts and the implants fitted at the same time. I had to wait six months for the material in the jaw to settle and heal before the crowns could be fitted.

lt was all well for 10 years but I lost two implants and had them replaced with bridges as recommended.

I asked jokingly if I would be better off having them all taken out and the dentist told me that assuming you could find a dental surgeon who would be prepared to remove them all, they would recommend implants or dentures.

It is possible to have the whole lot replaced with a full set of implants or perhaps two either side back and front to support a fixed denture. Depending of course of any alternatives they may also recommend.

If the removal of all teeth were possible, it would be extremely painful especially after the anesthetic had worn off and this wouldn't be done in one visit, it would probably need a few.

You also need to be aware that implants can last between 8 to 10 years. This is dependent on your age, health and dental hygiene care. Many people have been lucky to have implants that have lasted many more years but everyone is different.

The cost of future replacement would have to be considered but more importantly the cost for the whole treatment for this to be carried out would be beyond most people.

The removal of teeth can have other effects on your health and this would need very serious consideration for what would be in my opinion, very little benefit.

I would not recommend this unless it was the last resort but implants or dentures, whilst not perfect, would be a better option but ultimately keeping your own teeth at all costs would be the best advice I would ever give.

I hope this advice is helpful and may give you a little insight into having this done with my own experience.👍