Any problems

[Derek.w]

I am afraid classic cars must have a mot but operator needs to know how to bypass lets say No seat belt requirment.

[Hybrid21]

Off the Gov website Derek ?

Eligibility

The date your vehicle was built or first registered affects whether you need to:

• get an MOT
• pay vehicle tax

Vehicles that do not need an MOT

You do not need to get an MOT if:

• the vehicle was built or first registered more than 40 years ago
• no ‘substantial changes’ have been made to the vehicle in the last 30 years, for example replacing the chassis, body, axles or engine to change the way the vehicle works.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Hi Derek, I thought cars over 40 years old were exempt from MOT ?

They are. Built or first registered 40+ years ago, exempt. There must be no alterations to the original.

A declaration form has to be either handed in at P.O. or completed online when applying for v.e.d..

Sorry, somehow missed the previous post.

[Guest]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:15 PM, Yugguy1970 said:

It was made of paper thin metal

I would suggest the opposite. Comparitively thick and solid body panels. It's just that there was no anti-corrosion injected into cavities etc..

I agree re part of the floor, that is quite "flexible".

Air conditioning is optional.

[Yugguy1970]

1 hour ago, olonas said:

I would suggest the opposite. Comparitively thick and solid body panels. It's just that there was no anti-corrosion injected into cavities etc..

I agree re part of the floor, that is quite "flexible".

Air conditioning is optional.

I'm sure you're right.  I also know my daughter is infinitely safer in her Aygo than she would be in a Morris Minor.

[wildtapholer]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:11 AM, TonyHSD said:

Hybrids are the best of all Toyotas and all other cars that use ⛽️

Have looked at some, but I thought the Toyota Posh version was a better option the Lexus CT 200h.LOL

[TonyHSD]

14 minutes ago, wildtapholer said:

Have looked at some, but I thought the Toyota Posh version was a better option the Lexus CT 200h.LOL

This is a good car indeed. It’s actually a Prius in slightly plusher package, although a well spec Corolla gr or excel are better cars imo.
This ct200h up until the last production 2020 uses exclusively the old gen3 hybrid power train where since 2016-> Prius, ch-r and Corolla has the next gen 4, which is more efficient and with option of bigger and more powerful and modern 2.0 petrol engine. 

[wildtapholer]

Only said the Lexus because I did have an RX300 a few years ago till some wan%$r ran into me, fantastic car loved it, had everything and would still have it now, (even with the price of petrol) I'd have run it into the floor but, bodged first repair so after repair on repair and wasn't happy with it when it came back. The first repair was £4500 at stoneacre none of the panels lined up, cost a further £5500 to put right the first repair, total cost including car hire cost £20,000. Just for the record I insisted the second repair was carried out by Toyota and they had to call in an assessor to photo log the damage as and when the panels were removed, Toyota  made a first class repair and the insurance insisted the car would look exactly like it was before accident, but one new headlight on a car stands out like a sore thumb and they wouldn't replace both only the damaged one, plus I new where the damage was and could always see it.

[wildtapholer]

On the topic of Hybrids, I know nothing and need a little education, I know the batteries are very expensive to replace and last around between 10 and 15 yrs(correct me if I'm wrong), but are we talking a load of batteries in the floor of the car in order to drive it.

[Mooly]

1 hour ago, wildtapholer said:

but are we talking a load of batteries in the floor of the car in order to drive it.

Yes, the hybrid Battery packs are essentially packs made up of multiple (sometimes hundreds) of standard cells similar to those in a laptop Battery. By connecting them in series/parallel the voltage of each adds to the next one. By connecting in parallel you keep the voltage the same but double the current capacity.

Like this but they can also come in weird and wonderful custom shapes to fit the floor pan of the car involved:

[Cyker]

Funnily enough Chris Fix's last video is relevant to this:

 

[Guest]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:13 PM, Yugguy1970 said:

I'm sure you're right.  I also know my daughter is infinitely safer in her Aygo than she would be in a Morris Minor.

Yes, sadly the occupants are the crumple zones! No collapsible steering column either. I have read of horror stories (oops, missed off the s initially), before seat belts, when drivers with a pipe in their mouth suffered the gruesome injury of said pipe being pushed rearwards in a crash when the driver catapulted forwards into the windscreen or similar solid object.

[wildtapholer]

Lets see if I've got this right, to charge the Battery pack you have to drive the car and let the regen braking charge the Battery pack??, putting a Battery charger on the car does that not put anything into the battery pack and also if you was to start the car will leaving the car running charge the battery pack??

[Mooly]

An external Battery charger will always charge the 12 volt Battery. Alternatively;

you do not need to drive the car to get the 12 volt Battery to charge, if you put it in 'Ready Mode' the hybrid battery (which is very high voltage) will charge the 12 volt battery. It seems a strange concept but is what it is. If the hybrid battery starts getting low then the engine will automatically start to charge the hybrid battery.

What is not always appreciated is just how long it takes to fully charge a low 12 volt battery. It can take several hours.

[TonyHSD]

34 minutes ago, wildtapholer said:

Lets see if I've got this right, to charge the battery pack you have to drive the car and let the regen braking charge the battery pack??, putting a battery charger on the car does that not put anything into the battery pack and also if you was to start the car will leaving the car running charge the battery pack??

Hi, if you are asking about charging the traction Battery in most Toyota hybrids you can not do that and this is the reason why they also called them a “self charging hybrids” - or hybrid vehicles  HV .
There are another category hybrids including some Toyota models that are called “plug in hybrids “- PHEV - these can be charged via cable and can provide some ranges on pure electric power like Battery electric vehicles - BEV. 
Battery life on hybrids, plug in hybrids and battery electric cars indeed lasts between 10-15 years depending on vehicle use, maintenance, climate and in some cases number on charging cycles. The cheapest of all three categories traction battery replacement are the standard hybrids like Toyota Prius, Auris or Yaris hybrids. Average price in UK from a dealer can be around £2500-3000, there are cheaper options also available. Toyota uk provides up to 15 years warranty on hybrid battery T&C apply and up to 10 years 100000 miles extended warranty for the car if has been serviced in the dealer as per the manufacturer recommendation. 
 

[wildtapholer]

19 hours ago, Mooly said:

An external battery charger will always charge the 12 volt battery. Alternatively;

you do not need to drive the car to get the 12 volt battery to charge, if you put it in 'Ready Mode' the hybrid battery (which is very high voltage) will charge the 12 volt battery. It seems a strange concept but is what it is. If the hybrid battery starts getting low then the engine will automatically start to charge the hybrid battery.

What is not always appreciated is just how long it takes to fully charge a low 12 volt battery. It can take several hours.

So what you are saying is the Hybrid Battery can never go flat unless the hybrid batteries are at the end of their life.

[Mooly]

Correct, it should be protected from ever getting anywhere near flat by the vehicles management systems under all conceivable normal operating conditions. 

That doesn't mean it can never go flat though. The Battery pack will lose charge over time and so you can not expect to put the car in storage for years and years for example and expect it to be OK.    

 

[wildtapholer]

Lets say eg, Your Battery pack isn't at its best and you go on holiday for a month and it is flat when you come back, if the car starts will it charge the hybrid Battery pack, Question 1, also if you were to buy a second hand car where lets say the person had died, or in prison and the car has been stood for a year, if all the batteries were flat and you fitted a new 12v Battery, will the battery pack charge up when started, or will the car not start if the battery pack is completely flat. These questions might sound stupid but being as I've never had anything to do with a Hybrid I'm trying to get gen'd up.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, wildtapholer said:

Lets say eg, Your battery pack isn't at its best and you go on holiday for a month and it is flat when you come back, if the car starts will it charge the hybrid battery pack, Question 1, also if you were to buy a second hand car where lets say the person had died, or in prison and the car has been stood for a year, if all the batteries were flat and you fitted a new 12v battery, will the battery pack charge up when started, or will the car not start if the battery pack is completely flat. These questions might sound stupid but being as I've never had anything to do with a Hybrid I'm trying to get gen'd up.

The hybrid Battery can last around 6 months without use safely and perhaps much longer but not recommended. Also the storage times may differ and depending on climate, place, and soc at the time the car been switched off for a last. Buying a hybrid car that had been seating for a long time 12+ months without use its tricky and brings along risks indeed and you may not be able to start the car even after a new 12v Battery been fitted. There are hybrids specialist that can help but not always it’s guaranteed that it will work.
Please note: - The hybrid Battery should only be counted as one big battery and not as many small one under the car floor. There are 28 cells but they had nothings in common with small batteries or be similar to electric cars batteries. Here how it looks a typical Toyota hybrid battery behind the cover and this big box is usually located under the rear seat or on the boot over the rear axle. 👍

[Mooly]

A month, three months, even twelve months should not be much of an issue for any healthy hybrid pack. Any fairly recent car should not have a hybrid pack in anything less than very good condition.

If its an old car to begin with, so perhaps 10 to 15 years old or more then its much more of an unknown because the pack may self discharge much more quickly as well as having lost capacity.

And this one I'm not sure about... it is quite possible if a hybrid pack is 'flat' that the car may not start even if the 12 volt Battery is good because the management systems will see a possible issue and simply prevent the starting and charging of the hybrid pack for safety.

If the charge is below some preset level the Battery pack may first need charging by an external charger to ensure that the pack accepts charge and does not present as an unusual load or overheat when on charge.

 

1 hour ago, wildtapholer said:

Your battery pack isn't at its best and you go on holiday for a month and it is flat when you come back, if the car starts will it charge the hybrid battery pack

So that situation (the hybrid Battery pack being flat) is very unlikely but it is entirely possible the 12 volt battery might be flat after a month, certainly judging by all the comments in these forums.

[mcntosh]

1 hour ago, Mooly said:

And this one I'm not sure about... it is quite possible if a hybrid pack is 'flat' that the car may not start even if the 12 volt battery is good because the management systems will see a possible issue and simply prevent the starting and charging of the hybrid pack for safety.

If the charge is below some preset level the battery pack may first need charging by an external charger to ensure that the pack accepts charge and does not present as an unusual load or overheat when on charge.

On a related point: if the car runs completely out of petrol the hybrid system may refuse to start. This because the engine charges the Battery if charge is running low. If the hybrid battery’s charge is dangerously low and there is no prospect of using the engine to juice it up, then system will simply refuse to start. Just adding petrol won’t help because starting the petrol engine to charge the Battery requires the hybrid motor. The 12V Battery is useless because there’s no conventional starter motor.

Ar this point, the only option is recovery to a Toyota dealer who will need to book a loan of Toyota’s special charger for the hybrid battery. Apparently there is only one of those in the UK so this must be a rare occurrence. Clearly we’re a sensible lot, us hybrid drivers…

[Mooly]

Good points Tom.

[mcntosh]

58 minutes ago, Mooly said:

Good points Tom.

Thanks.

In fairness, I can’t see that anyone paying attention to their car’s dashboard could find themselves in this situation. There’s a video on Youtube of two guys doing it in a RAV4. It involved deliberately ignoring the low fuel light and the repeated warnings that the hybrid Battery was almost entirely discharged.

It might be possible to clear the hybrid system’s state with an OBD reader. Not sure I’d want to risk forcing it to start and possibly damaging it. I imagine Toyota would take a dim view of the warranty in that situation.

[Cyker]

If the car was left so long the traction Battery discharged, the car will not start - Even with a fresh fully charged 12v Battery, the ECU will notice the traction Battery doesn't have enough charge to start the engine and will go into an error state.

Because the Toyota hybrids don't have a starter motor, the traction battery must have enough charge to spin the ICE up with the high voltage electric motors (MG1 in this case). If it can't do that, there is no way to start the car.

Where this has happened to people, the car has had to be taken to a dealer where they request one of the special hybrid battery chargers, and when it eventually arrives, they plug the battery into it to charge it up sufficiently to start the engine.

Allegedly there are only a few of these special chargers in the country, so it can take a while for it to get delivered to the dealer in question.

[wildtapholer]

I think I should have started a new thread about Hybrid batteries, sorry you got me there, no starter, enough charge to spin the ICE what????? lost me there.