Poor screen wash jets : Algal growth in screen wash ?

[Justin Smith]

I have experienced low screen wash jet pressure on my wife's Yaris and my Auris (in the case of the latter it was much worse when it's cold, I thought they were frozen, possibly wrongly), and it has been suggested to me this is due to algal growth in the screen wash tank blocking the pump and/or any filter into the pump and/or the jets themselves. I was having a chat with the mechanic who services our cars and he was actually working on a car with low pressure on the screen wash jets at the time, it was a Volvo actually, and it was a big expensive job accessing the tank built in behind the front wheel. He actually showed me the tank and it did indeed have loads of black gunge in the bottom of it. He also told me he regularly has to clean out screenwash systems and he'd had to do just that with a Hyundai only a few days before, which also an extensive (expensive.....) strip down job. He was blaming "the screenwash additives they use these days, full of sugar".

Any thoughts, esp about how to stop it ?

This is also discussed here (and other places) https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=76555

[TonyHSD]

Perhaps happening to people who use the cheapest supermarkets screen wash or no screen wash at all and only water. Also irregular use and top ups are the main cause of anything like that. Quality accessories including service parts like screen wash, filters , wipers, all done in time prevents all that issues. 👍

[flash22]

Drain the tank, rinse out with hot water, it's not algae, it's caused by mixing brands and the chemical mismatch causing the chemicals/additives to drop out of the universal solvent (mainly glycol base) turns to a gunge in the 5-10ºc range hence why you see a lot of it this time of year

on a lot of Toyota's it fouls the non-return valve

Halfords & Bluecol is junk, it's cheap for a reason

 

Edit. you get the exact same thing with cooling systems

[Derek.w]

Its a lot easier just sticking with the same make and if you going to change MFG or even type then do it in the summer after running it for through with just water once or twice!!.

It saves you work.

[Justin Smith]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:17 PM, flash22 said:

Drain the tank, rinse out with hot water, it's not algae, it's caused by mixing brands and the chemical mismatch causing the chemicals/additives to drop out of the universal solvent (mainly glycol base) turns to a gunge in the 5-10ºc range hence why you see a lot of it this time of year

on a lot of Toyota's it fouls the non-return valve

Halfords & Bluecol is junk, it's cheap for a reason

Edit. you get the exact same thing with cooling systems

How can you completely drain the tank, without removing the tank from the vehicle ?
Does operating the washers till there's none left do that ? But does that not increase the chances of any gunge being pulled through and blocking the non return valve ?
Any chance one could syphon it out ?

>>chemical mismatch causing the chemicals/additives to drop out of the universal solvent<<

I have been concerned about that for years. There ought to be a warning on the screenwash about that, maybe even stating which types it is compatible with.

 

[fred88]

In the past I've took the end off my hose pipe, stuffed it as far down as I can and given it a good flush for a few minutes. Sort of has the required effect.

[Justin Smith]

1 hour ago, fred88 said:

In the past I've took the end off my hose pipe, stuffed it as far down as I can and given it a good flush for a few minutes. Sort of has the required effect.

That sounds like a good idea, do you then syphon it out before adding fresh screenwash ?

[fred88]

I can't honestly remember, but suggest running the washers to flush some fresh through the pipes and empty it a bit. Can you disconnect the pipe from the jets first just to try and ensure nothing still in there gets through and blocks them?

In those days I probably used washing up liquid so didn't need drain much out but appreciate thats not done now. Yes I guess you could syphon it.

[flash22]

Gravity drain or suction type pump to suck it out, I have used a hand pumped oil vac a few times

[TonyHSD]

Or some tanks has removable neck if you can remove it and stick a hose in and washed it while the water goes out as it’s gonna be overflowing., can add on some tfr or other chemicals for cleaning the bottom. I haven’t done anything like that yet so just an idea, not sure if it is going to work or if it’s safe. Lidl or Aldi has pumps usually online or in store cost around £15 

[Derek.w]

Hose pipe is good

but a vaccume pump is very good

and a venture tube is a good alternative if you have a compressor.(you can make your own venture) its only a tube at 30 degrees angle creating a vaccum.

[Justin Smith]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:04 AM, fred88 said:

In the past I've took the end off my hose pipe, stuffed it as far down as I can and given it a good flush for a few minutes. Sort of has the required effect.

Actually you could do that, which would agitate the mixture and mix it all up, then syphon it out. Most of the mixture would some out, and you could always repeat the process if desired, each time there'd be less and less crud left in the bottom of the tank.

I have decided to do this at least once a year, probably in the late spring when I swap over to less concentrated mixture.

[Justin Smith]

I syphoned out the contents of the screenwash bottle today but, counter intuitively, was disappointed to find no "bits" in it ! I had hoped I was removing any gunk that was in there.

I then filled it with water twice (the first time as a jet from the hose sprayer) and syphoned that all out, but, similarly, the water looked pretty clean to me.

I have filled it with a very dilute summer mix hoping that will help flush it out by next winter. The plan is to refill with stronger screenwash in about mid October.

 

[AisinW]

@Justin Smith You can use vinegar to remove the algae. Just pure vinegar for overnight and empty it by the spray it to windscreen.  Vinegar is mild acid and will not harm any pump or rubber parts but enough to kill organism. 

[Konrad C]

I never use tap water in my screen wash for as long as I can remember, including my previous car. The water in my area causes scale that can block the system. I always used premix stuff mostly from the supermarket or car-parts stores. The worst that happens on freezing mornings is frozen washers, that thaw when the car warms up. I use de-ionised or distilled water for my coolant when mixed with Toyota concentrated coolant. You know how bad the tap water is, when washing the car and water marks are left. That is why I dry then polish the car are every wash.  

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Konrad C said:

I never use tap water in my screen wash for as long as I can remember, including my previous car. The water in my area causes scale that can block the system. I always used premix stuff mostly from the supermarket or car-parts stores. The worst that happens on freezing mornings is frozen washers, that thaw when the car warms up. I use de-ionised or distilled water for my coolant when mixed with Toyota concentrated coolant. You know how bad the tap water is, when washing the car and water marks are left. That is why I dry then polish the car are every wash.  

That’s sounds interesting.
I always been using tap water for my screen wash and coolant mix. I had no problems so far but here something also interesting to share.
Often when I fill up the washer tank washing fluid is coming off the nozzles on the bonnet and when I attempt to wipe it clean I see a lots of white like dried limestone or powder that has built on them. it cleans away but it’s strange to me.
Another interesting fact about the Toyota original ready mixed  pink coolant.
I had been using it for the last 3 years. The new package has similar white stuff around the cap when opening, however it’s harder than the washer nozzles formation and looks like proper limescale instead, perhaps they also have used a tap water and not anything like distilled water.  

[Cyker]

Maybe, but I reckon it's more likely just the coolant stuff crystalizing around the top. Anything dissolved in water will form a similar white powdery look when the water evaporates, you only really see the colour when there's lots of it!

I do wonder how much water is just used as is in a lot of things rather than being filtered or distilled first, as I have noticed some of the taste from different colas is often down to the local water than any recipe changes. Even the tap water from different parts of the UK taste very different because of the difference in minerals and stuff dissolved in them from the source and pipes!!

 

[Justin Smith]

On 4/18/2023 at 7:29 PM, Justin Smith said:

I syphoned out the contents of the screenwash bottle today but, counter intuitively, was disappointed to find no "bits" in it ! I had hoped I was removing any gunk that was in there.

I then filled it with water twice (the first time as a jet from the hose sprayer) and syphoned that all out, but, similarly, the water looked pretty clean to me.

I have filled it with a very dilute summer mix hoping that will help flush it out by next winter. The plan is to refill with stronger screenwash in about mid October.

I have just tried this flushing out with my wife's Yaris (which I have had similar problems with) and that did have bits of crud in the screenwash I syphoned out, like little strands of blue stuff. Not loads, but it was defn there. As an experiment (I love my testing, usually aerials or poles ! ) and also to save loads of concentrated screenwash which I cannot bear to pour down the drain, I plan to filter it all through filter paper and see exactly how much is filtered out. Morrisons 40 coffee filter papers for £1.49 !

[Justin Smith]

I don't think I need to use filter paper, I used a J Cloth as a fine filter instead ! It filtered out quite a bit of the crud from my Wife's Yaris's siphoned out screen wash. Unfortunately a picture of it wouldn't have looked much good because, err, the J cloth is blue....

A pic of one of the blue crud bits is attached, that's a £1 coin next to it for scale purposes.

However, when Mick (from the garage mentioned up thread) showed me the screen wash bottle he'd removed - at great trouble / expense - the crud in that was black, not blue......
Maybe that was algae whereas my crud is the result of the mixed screen wash solutions (or just stuff settling out) ?

[Justin Smith]

I have just drained the weak summer screenwash mixture out of my Auris and replaced it with neat -10 degrees winter mixture (as I was having issues with it freezing up last year).

I was shocked to see algal growth (like minute little plant like material) in the stuff I'd siphoned out..... It'd only been in there 6 months, and it was deliberately very weak to try and discourage that growth.

I think this may be good evidence that to avoid possible large bills removing and replacing the screenwash twice a year is advisable ?

Did we conclude if there was a decent method of killing all the algal growth off without damaging the screenwash system or paintwork ?

[TonyHSD]

We did. 
To prevent and reduce the risk of algal forming best way is to keep the tank full and top up with the same brand liquid and in its concentrated form, aka autumn winter mixture all year around. No need to drain and replace according to the season. If changing the brand it is advisable to do so when the tank is fully or almost empty. 

[Justin Smith]

For some reason I had kept some dilute screen and I was emptying out one of the containers when I realised it had algae coating the inside. I think it was dilute screenwash, the concentrated stuff did not appear to have any algae on the container insides, though I filtered it anyway before putting it back in the screenwash bottle.

 

[Justin Smith]

Drained my screenwash tank (after the screen washers temporarily stopped working for no apparent reason) and put it through a filter made up of a white hankerchief ( ! ).

This was the result. Note I am sure there was much more algae in there but my syphon tube was almost certainly not sucking all of the screenwash out.

 

 

[TonyHSD]

But why this forms inside your tank? 
Can you use something like Apple cider vinegar to kill the bacteria and stop the issue? 

[Justin Smith]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:42 AM, TonyHSD said:

But why this forms inside your tank? 
Can you use something like apple cider vinegar to kill the bacteria and stop the issue? 

Do you mean with the screenwash ?

Or drain the screenwash bottle, treat the screenwash container* with vinegar (at what concentration ? ), drain that, then refill with screenwash ?

* I assume one would also have to pump it through the pipes etc ?