Toyota to produce 124 mile electric range PHEV's

[Hayzee]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-plug-hybrids-offer-124-mile-electric-only-range

 

Interesting read

[ernieb]

2nd Generation solid state batteries I guess. Toyota are soon releasing a CH-R with a PHEV option it will be interesting to see how far that can go in EV mode.

If they could achieve 124 miles WLTP range then likely the winter range would still be around 100 miles, very useful. 

[Flatcoat]

I saw that too - it is unfortunate the UK Gov,  ill informed civil service and elite that run this country are so blinkered (with their 100% EV or nothing strategy and attitude) they will probably not reach the UK. This solution would suit me even better than my RAV PHEV. I hope the threat of Toyota shutting up shop in the UK brings about a pragmatic change from the idiots in charge. 

[Cyker]

I wonder if we could start a petition that forces all MPs to only drive the cars they're going to allow sold new from 2030 onwards - So no more diesel Range Rovers for Mr Khan and his ilk - and they have to buy them with their own money, not as 'an expense'. No more borrowing pool cars that we fund for personal use. And put LTNs in all the areas they live and travel through for good measure. Be interesting to see how they find it when they have to eat what they're trying to shovel to us...

Still, I think Toyota are on the right track - This is essentially phase two of their original road map, albeit brought slightly forward. Next they should be rolling out solid state or whatever new Battery tech into the following generation PHEVs to reduce weight without sacrificing range and see how their long term stability is, then hopefully we'll start seeing a glimmer of possibility of my 300+ mile @70mph Yaris-sized car!

 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Hayzee said:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-plug-hybrids-offer-124-mile-electric-only-range

Interesting read

It is an interesting read ...

124 miles / 200 km sounds like a marketing ambition more than an engineering expectation, but it is easily achievable, even with current technology ... and seems to me rather too much (for a PHEV).

The UK average daily commute is around 25 miles. The target needs to be well above that average to ensure that a majority of commutes are pure EV so a range between 50 miles and 100 km (62 miles) would seem reasonable and good. And that's where the RAV4 PHEV is today ...

The RAV4 HEV I have today does all that I need it to do. A RAV4 PHEV would do that better but the cost to change wouldn't really make that worthwhile so, for now, I'll stick with what I have.

I rather like the Mazda MX-30, but with a 35.5 kWh Battery and range of 124 miles / 200 km it just won't work for occasional longer journeys. Mazda have now announced the MX-30R - they've dropped the Battery size to 17.8 kWh (range 53 miles) and added a rotary engine as a generator only giving an effectively unlimited range. That might work ...

And the new Prius PHEV with a 13.6 kWh Battery boast a range of around 43 miles which is more than enough for the average daily commute. And it can then fall back on the 2.0L hybrid for longer  journeys ... 🙂 The 2.0L hybrid in the C-HR is very nice. I wouldn't want a Prius but put that system into a next generation C-HR or Corolla Cross and I'm in!

[Flatcoat]

I get very cross when people refer to averages as though we are all average people living average lives behaving averagely. No one and nothing is average. My average daily mileage is 41. My commute is either 5 yards or 44 miles. My individual holiday driving is 2,000 miles plus (800 miles each way). Some days I drive 200 miles for work. Some days I don’t drive at all. Unfortunately it is the allegedly smart people overpaid for their alleged intelligence who use averages to try and dictate how we live our lives. One day the average person will averagely rise up and revolt. 

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I wonder if we could start a petition that forces all MPs to only drive the cars they're going to allow sold new from 2030 onwards - So no more diesel Range Rovers for Mr Khan and his ilk - and they have to buy them with their own money, not as 'an expense'. No more borrowing pool cars that we fund for personal use. And put LTNs in all the areas they live and travel through for good measure. Be interesting to see how they find it when they have to eat what they're trying to shovel to us...

Still, I think Toyota are on the right track - This is essentially phase two of their original road map, albeit brought slightly forward. Next they should be rolling out solid state or whatever new battery tech into the following generation PHEVs to reduce weight without sacrificing range and see how their long term stability is, then hopefully we'll start seeing a glimmer of possibility of my 300+ mile @70mph Yaris-sized car!

 

Totally agree. If they are so sure of their policies then Let them Lead and show by example….. 

[ernieb]

11 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

I get very cross when people refer to averages as though we are all average people living average lives behaving averagely. No one and nothing is average. My average daily mileage is 41. My commute is either 5 yards or 44 miles. My individual holiday driving is 2,000 miles plus (800 miles each way). Some days I drive 200 miles for work. Some days I don’t drive at all. Unfortunately it is the allegedly smart people overpaid for their alleged intelligence who use averages to try and dictate how we live our lives. One day the average person will averagely rise up and revolt. 

Averages are somewhat overused. I hear politicians, TV news people etc., all talking about bringing things up to the average. The reality is that once you move anything from below the average to the average then the average has changed. 🤪

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think that for the period 2030 to 2035, when new PHEVs will still be available to purchase, Government will require them to have a minimum range in EV mode - although the minimum has yet to be confirmed it is thought to be around 50 miles.

Presumably this is Toyota is preparing in advance.

[Flatcoat]

32 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Think that for the period 2030 to 2035, when new PHEVs will still be available to purchase, Government will require them to have a minimum range in EV mode - although the minimum has yet to be confirmed it is thought to be around 50 miles.

Presumably this is Toyota is preparing in advance.

My understanding is The proposals out for consultation do not allow for PHEV’s as part of the post 2030 mix. In practice if carried through, ICE cars (even with hybrid tech) will be effectively banned from 2030. 

[Flatcoat]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Averages are somewhat overused. I hear politicians, TV news people etc., all talking about bringing things up to the average. The reality is that once you move anything from below the average to the average then the average has changed. 🤪

Average is also levelling down when you move anything from above average down to the average everything is equal, but that’s what socialism is and Conservatives are the new socialists. 

[Cyker]

Well it's all up in the air at the moment - Originally it was all ICE-only cars banned from 2040, then it was 2030, then it was extended to also ban hybrids, then it was extended to ban PHEVs after 2035, then PHEVs were reinstated if they had some as-yet unspecified minimum range, then it was on the table to ban them again, and now we've had this 'synthetic fuel' thing thrown in which effectively means ICE vehicles might be allowed again... smeg only knows what's happening!  

There's also a stipulation saying low-volume producers are exempt from all of this so e.g. Morgan and Nobel will still be able to produce their cars as ICEy as they like, and we might have weird things like a company spinning off into 30 million separate companies to every town so they can sell ICE cars and remain under the limit  

 

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Averages are somewhat overused. I hear politicians, TV news people etc., all talking about bringing things up to the average. The reality is that once you move anything from below the average to the average then the average has changed. 🤪

Indeed... but which average are they talking about?  Mean, median, or mode?

[Hayzee]

20 minutes ago, Cyker said:

.. smeg only knows what's happening!  

 

Very true!

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/ban-on-sale-of-petrol-and-diesel-cars-in-eu-watered-down-with-e-fuels-exemption/

[philip42h]

8 minutes ago, Hayzee said:

Very true!

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/ban-on-sale-of-petrol-and-diesel-cars-in-eu-watered-down-with-e-fuels-exemption/

Well that's perfectly clear then ...

They say that a week is a long time in politics and they are speculating upon what may happen twelve years from now! 🙂

Either way, as things stand (today), sales of new hybrid vehicles (HEV and PHEV) will be allowed in the UK until 2035 (at least). The UK government will ban the sale of pure petrol and diesel cars from 2030 but there already precious few of those around - most new ICE engined cars are already 'mild' hybrids.

And that only covers the sale of new cars ... 😉

[AJones]

7 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

it is unfortunate the UK Gov,  ill informed civil service and elite that run this country are so blinkered (with their 100% EV or nothing strategy and attitude) they will probably not reach the UK. 

The UK Government is not stopping the sale of PHEVs and the consultations to date have indicated that vehicles with significant zero emission capability can continue to be sold until 2035, which would likely apply to most PHEVs, almost certainly to PHEVs with 100+ miles EV range.

Based on experience to date, the bigger issue will be whether Toyota UK chooses to sell them in the UK at all, whether it can sell them at an attractive price and whether Toyota globally can manufacturer the PHEVs in large enough volumes that people can easily get hold of them.

The Prius Plug-in (aka Prime) didn't appear to be that well pitched or promoted in the UK and never sold in large numbers. RAV4 PHEV order book has closed due to the lack of supply. The Prius Prime 2023 got rave reviews, but in its wisdom Toyota UK has decided not to sell it here, despite it being sold just over the water in Ireland. 

If you can't get a Toyota PHEV, the most likely cause will be Toyota!

[NASY]

Average - unattainable, theoretical mid point which cannot exist but would be convenient if it did. 

[dannyboy413]

On the subject of averages, did you hear about the statistician who drowned whilst crossing a river? Apparently it was only three feet deep on average. 

(Sorry!)