Have I got faulty battery?

[Cyker]

I'm aware you can listen to the radio in ACC; That's practically what that mode was designed for! I just don't see why you would in the hybrid when it just needlessly increases the risk of depleting the 12v. If I'm going to be sat in the car parked for any length of time, I'll turn the car off and on again so the DRLs turn off (I found they don't turn on until you take it out of P, then they stay on permanently until the car is turned off. Only exception is if it's dark, then the main beams come on and you can't do anything about that  ), but leave it in Ready mode so I get full multimedia and HVAC access and don't have to worry about anything discharging.

For winding up the windows in a pinch I guess that is a use, although I know from very wet experience that ACC is not enough - I had to press the button twice and go into On/Position II before it supplied power to the windows (Also the case in the Mk1 and Mk2 Yaris).

Even that's been made redundant now that I have the remote window operation set up on the key - If I'm sitting in the car with it shut off and suddenly decide I want to open the windows, I'd hold the Unlock button on the fob rather than turn the car on as it's faster  

 

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

I'll turn the car off and on again so the DRLs turn off (I found they don't turn on until you take it out of P, then they stay on permanently until the car is turned off.

Check if they go out when you put the handbrake on my car and truck do this -

 

Quote

If you consider they are “running” lights, once you apply the Parking brake (what you have referred to as the hand brake) you are not actually “running” anymore. I do not know for sure but you will also probably find manufacturers most likely do this to comply with a regulation in a country (or state in America) that requires this as a legal thing. The manufacturer is not going to do this for one place they sell it, all models would be made to comply.

 

[Cyker]

I've checked, they don't - The only time they are not on is when I first turn the car on; As soon as I shift it out of P, they come on and stay on!

I think it would be weird if they turned off when you put the handbrake on as they'd be going off and on all the time in traffic (Well, if the mk4 had a handbrake like my manual cars did!)

[Roy124]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Even that's been made redundant now that I have the remote window operation set up on the key - If I'm sitting in the car with it shut off and suddenly decide I want to open the windows, I'd hold the Unlock button on the fob rather than turn the car on as it's faster  

It was a garage setup option on the MY21 YC.  My dealer was unaware until I told him. 

 

[Derek.w]

Yaris MK4 you have 15, to 20 seconds to close the windows after turning off all systems by pressing the start button after that you have to move it into restarting second position ie 2 presses to restart close windows then turn off car exit and lock it.

[Cyker]

I've not figured the nuances of that out yet; For instance, I find that if I activate the window switches shortly after turning off the car they'll work a for a short period, but if I open the door that immediately cuts power to them!

 

20 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

It was a garage setup option on the MY21 YC.  My dealer was unaware until I told him. 

Yeah I had to ask my dealer to enable it during service, although I think certain ODB2 widgets like Carly and Carista can also activate it.

 

[tfc]

I did mine with carista, I was a bugger to crack the window open just to the bottom edge of the wind deflector and forget to close it when exiting the car and you have reopen and go through that rigmarole putting ign on .

[TopGeek]

It seems to me that the 12v batteries used in the Yaris hybrids and Yaris Cross are not as robust as those used in conventional cars. I've only had mine for six weeks and I am surprised at how often the ICE switches on and off, such as when I reverse out of the garage. The ICE will switch on within 30 seconds from pressing the start button.

Last night, I went out for a short drive in the dark and all seemed fine but, this evening, I needed to do the same, got in the car and tried to start it but I just got a long bleep when I pressed the start button and the instrument panel displayed 'Parking Brake unavaible' while the brake pedal pumped up and down. I switched off and went to have a look at the manual on my computer. That says to try operating the parking brake switch several times and, if that doesn't fix it call Toyota. I went back to the car and nothing was working. The overhead lights were dim so it looked like the Battery was flat.

I called Toyota and a breakdown truck arrived in 15 minutes (very impressive). Smart mechanic was carrying a booster unit. He said, we get a lot of flat batteries on hybrids. You need to drive more to keep the Battery charged. True, I had only done 370km and mostly local shopping trips. He connected his booster to the jumper point in the fusebox and the ICE started immediately. Now for the bad news, he said. You now need to go out right away and drive for at least 20km. I asked him if I couldn't just connect a Battery charger to the same point and he said the system wasn't designed for that. I'm not sure why but I did later check the manual, where it says the battery can be charged in situ but with the ground lead disconnected.

So I went for a long drive, for no other purpose than to charge the battery. Not a very gracious welcome to the world of hybrid motoring but a lesson learned.

[FROSTYBALLS]

14 minutes ago, TopGeek said:

He said, we get a lot of flat batteries on hybrids. You need to drive more to keep the battery charged.

Also see -

 

[Derek.w]

I recomend putting Battery on charge without disconnecting the negative lead but best to connect a smart charger as close to the Battery as pratical ideally at Battery terminals..

If battery needs recharging every week just to keep it above 12.2 volts then its time for a new one.

[RickyC]

45 minutes ago, TopGeek said:

Now for the bad news, he said. You now need to go out right away and drive for at least 20km.

I wonder why so many mechanics suggest to go for a long trip to charge the 12V Battery.  It can be useful for traditional cars with an alternator, but is a nonsense with a full hybrid car with a DC-DC converter to charge Battery.   It's better to leave the car in Ready mode without moving it ( unless you need to go somewhere else ). 

[TopGeek]

42 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Also see -

 

Wow. I wonder how many owners do that. I would have thought it could be made easier to access the Battery for trickle charging purposes. Imagine the amount of petrol consumed in that 20-minute charging period and the amount of pollution generated.

[RickyC]

7 minutes ago, TopGeek said:

Wow. I wonder how many owners do that. I would have thought it could be made easier to access the battery for trickle charging purposes. Imagine the amount of petrol consumed in that 20-minute charging period and the amount of pollution generated.

Very few petrol.  The 12V Battery is charged using energy from the traction Battery and ICE kicks down sometimes for less than a minute to charge the traction Battery when SOC falls to about 40/50 %

[FROSTYBALLS]

11 minutes ago, TopGeek said:

Imagine the amount of petrol consumed in that 20-minute charging period and the amount of pollution generated.

The engine wouldn't be on for the whole time.

[Derek.w]

Yes charging is the same at any engine speed but it has various charging voltages depending on how depleated the Battery is so really its a time thing but it,s charge without engine running from the high voltage Battery is possable if high voltage is above set paramiters otherwise the engine will start just to charge the high voltage Battery unless lets say aircon request engine to turn on.

[Max_Headroom]

If you only do short journeys and decide to use the "Ready" method to charge the 12v Battery how do you know at what stage of charge it is at, is it guesswork? 

[anchorman]

9 hours ago, TopGeek said:

Wow. I wonder how many owners do that. I would have thought it could be made easier to access the battery for trickle charging purposes. Imagine the amount of petrol consumed in that 20-minute charging period and the amount of pollution generated.

None unless the AC is on and the engine cutting in or out doesn’t necessarily mean the car is struggling to charge the Battery.  What should have happened is that the dealer should have talked to you for a while about your usage of the car especially if your trade in had low mileage.  They could quickly work out if you were likely to have Battery problems.  To be honest, a jump pack costs £100 and it’s less than a charging station for a plug in.  Consider it necessary for low usage.  There’s nothing wrong with the Battery, it’s the usage that causes problems.  If you can park off road, you can leave it in READY (engine may or may not run) or better still, plug into a smart charger when not in use.  I know this is all new to you but it’s “old hat” to us.

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

None unless the AC is on and the engine cutting in or out doesn’t necessarily mean the car is struggling to charge the battery. 

......

If you can park off road, you can leave it in READY (engine may or may not run)

...... 

This touches on an important point. 

You must minimise demand on the 12v Battery during Ready Mode recharging.  Switching off AC/Fans and lights will reduce the draw on the 12v Battery while the HV is charging it.  This, in turn, will reduce the draw on the HV Battery and minimise ICE running. 

Regarding the earlier 'drive for 20 km' advice.  Same rule applies; minimise the 12v draw to maximise the recharge rate. 

 

[Roy124]

3 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

If you only do short journeys and decide to use the "Ready" method to charge the 12v battery how do you know at what stage of charge it is at, is it guesswork? 

It is either guess work as you say, or you monitor the Battery. 

You can do this with a voltmeter over time or get a Battery monitor. 

I have BM6.  When I first got it I used is every day and monitored voltage level and voltage drop over time.  Once I had established the voltage loss while the car was not in use I have confidence in my Battery. 

Now I might check once a week or so during a period of non-use. My next planned non-use will be a fortnight in September. No worries as we will be parked up at a friend's home and I can check before we start up. 

[TopGeek]

Sounds to me like a booster pack is a good idea to avoid flat Battery emergencies.

I appreciate the excellent advice from all you experienced hybriders. I'm a long-retired electrical engineer who worked in the automotive industry for many years but how things have changed in recent times. I loved my 2l Qashqai but it was a polluting gas-guzzler so it had to go. I was torn between going full-EV, plug-in hybrid or self-charging hybrid. I chose the latter because I don't think the market is yet ready for full-EV, while plug-in hybrids are just a nuisance. However, no-one warned me about the Battery drain issue with self-charging hybrids. Even so, I still think it was the best choice and my version of the Yaris Cross is technically very impressive.

[Max_Headroom]

6 hours ago, Roy124 said:

You can do this with a voltmeter over time or get a battery monitor. 

Its a shame there isn't a secret menu like on the Corsa D (video below) maybe there is but no one has found it yet.

I think this is the way i will deal with 12v Battery anxiety 😄

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ARCELI-Bluetooth-Wireless-Diagnostic-Analyzer-Black/dp/B09YTWJ6BL/ref=sr_1_26?keywords=battery+monitor&qid=1682699073&sr=8-26

 

 

 

 

 

[Roy124]

Max, Kia too. 

[Roy124]

Brian, when we left ICE three years ago we discounted PHEV but in retrospect I think we were wrong.  Having rejected PHEV we chose the Toyota HEV. 

We did not go for a PHEV for our next car for economic reasons.  The RAV4 was too expensive and also too big for our needs. 

Regarding EV, the EV that suits our range need is too expensive. 

[Derek.w]

15 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

If you only do short journeys and decide to use the "Ready" method to charge the 12v battery how do you know at what stage of charge it is at, is it guesswork? 

Well you can fit a voltage monitor into the 12 volt accessory socket when its reading 12.7 or 12.8 volts you know the Battery is fully charged. ( This indicates you are in a non charging state. )

Then again if you use a smart charger it will tell you various charging states via leds indicating a paticular charge level achieved in most cases.

Dont want to visit car to check its charging state then use a Battery Monitor it produce a grath when its falling Battery is fully charged.

[TopGeek]

3 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Brian, when we left ICE three years ago we discounted PHEV but in retrospect I think we were wrong.  Having rejected PHEV we chose the Toyota HEV. 

We did not go for a PHEV for our next car for economic reasons.  The RAV4 was too expensive and also too big for our needs. 

Regarding EV, the EV that suits our range need is too expensive. 

The reason I said PHEV's are just a nuisance is due to my perception of how they operate, which might be incorrect. Just one example:

1.  My neighbour seems to put .his two PHEVs (large BMW and a Mini) on charge every night, outdoors with trailing cables.

2. If the charge expires while he's out he can either go to a charging station and wait however long it takes to charge (minimum 20 minutes) or he can carry on driving on the ICE. Charging stations are still not that easy to find here outside the cities.

As with EVs, the paucity of charging stations is a key factor.

My grandaughter's partner has a Tesla and he drives long distances. The Tesla has its own unique connector and it also shows Tesla charging points on the GPS map. Even so, every trip has to be planned in advance and he's constantly worrying about his next charging stop.

For me, I think an HEV is the best option.