Recovery; a First in 30yrs

[Broadway One]

Hi all......its been awhile.
Recently let down with my RAV PHEV.
Parked up away from home only to find no response upon return to the car.
Lots of activity on the mid but nil when pressing the start button.
Quickly & efficiently sorted by the AA call out guy; flat 12v Battery.
Apparently he tells me it's very common in the  EV/PHEV world.
My confidence in the vehicle has taken a knock on this occasion.
Disappointed.......Barry Wright, Lancashire.      

[philip42h]

As he says it's a very well known 'feature'. There are loads of posts on these forums relating to Toyota hybrids (and PHEVs) and it will apply to most EVs too to a greater or lesser extend.

If you leave the car parked up for long enough the 12v auxiliary Battery will run down and the car won't start. You should be OK for about two weeks, longer than that you may well have an issue. The simple resolution is to carry a charged jump start pack so that you can do exactly what the AA guy did without having to call him out.

On the RAV4 PHEV there is an additional potential issue where the car's DCM communication system remains [over] active after the car is switched pulling down the 12v auxiliary Battery rather quickly and there's a fix for that that can and should be applied by your dealer. See: 

 

[Cyker]

It does seem like a jump pack should be standard equipment for people that tend to leave their cars for longer periods.

Hey Barry, how long did you leave it before that happened out of curiosity?

[Broadway One]

A couple of hours in Park, but did fail to switch off the at the start button on this occasion.
Something I never do, senility setting in I guess.
Barry.   

[Cyker]

Oh, that's weird, it shouldn't be possible to drain it if it's running! Or do you mean it was 'on' but not in Ready mode for a couple hours?

 

[Roy124]

Yes, Park should be OK. Possibly Park, Ready off, ACC? 

Regarding a jump pack, you don't need to leave the car for 2 weeks.  Doors open, radio on while washing the car can flatten the Battery if in ACC. 

Neighbour contrived to leave an interior light on.  It was a Kia so he was able to use the HV emergency reset. 

Knocking your side lights on and not noticing the alert will do it too. 

[Broadway One]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Oh, that's weird, it shouldn't be possible to drain it if it's running! Or do you mean it was 'on' but not in Ready mode for a couple hours?

As u intimate "on" but not in ready mode.
The AA guy suggested I refer to dealer for a battery check.
The drain on the battery by the failure of the DCM to shut down an added reason.
Thanks again for your input.......Barry Wright.  

 

 

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Broadway One said:

The AA guy suggested I refer to dealer for a battery check.

Pretty standard and good advice. Once you do get a flat Battery there is permanent damage.  Not fatal damage but damage none the less. 

 

[Cyker]

Yeah, it'll shorten the capacity but in this case I don't think it'll impact too much - It's these people that leave it flat for a month that usually get the problems  

1 hour ago, Broadway One said:

As u intimate "on" but not in ready mode.
The AA guy suggested I refer to dealer for a battery check.
The drain on the battery by the failure of the DCM to shut down an added reason.
Thanks again for your input.......Barry Wright. 

Ahh gotcha.

I was wondering, as I've left my Yaris' lights on all day and it still started no problem, but the 'On-but-not-Ready' mode does draw a lot of power as all the computers and active transmitters and stuff are on 'full alert'.

It's quite surprising how much power it uses in this age of low-power electronics, as I swear even my laptop uses less power!!

In the end it just adds more weight to the Always Be in Ready mode advice  

[ColinB]

This happened twice to me on my C-HR during lockdown where out want regularly used. First time the AA came to the rescue, I had bought a Battery pack ready for the second occasion.

Colin

[Lawnmowerman]

10 hours ago, Broadway One said:

A couple of hours in Park, but did fail to switch off the at the start button on this occasion.
Something I never do, senility setting in I guess.
Barry.   

Two stages of senility Barry:

Stage one: forgetting to close your fly

Stage two: forgetting to open it 😂😂🤣😂

[Terry10]

Hello all

I quite regularly go to daughters to do odd jobs for them and leave my hatch open for a couple of hours plus.Not had a problem so far but are you guys saying that I could get a problem starting even doing this?
regards Terry 

 

[SO8]

I worked for National Highways and they use Noco Battery packs … awesome bit of kit.  I bought the ‘updated’ version for my Yaris and another for the wife’s C-HR … mine now sits in the PHEV.  I’ve luckily never had to use it on my Toyotas but bought it after reading loads like this and knowing what was good through work at the time.  

The Noco has helped a few other people out so I know it works well.  Not cheap but tiny and worth having in the boot for peace of mind.  Shouldn’t really be needed though !

[TonyHSD]

4 hours ago, Terry10 said:

Hello all

I quite regularly go to daughters to do odd jobs for them and leave my hatch open for a couple of hours plus.Not had a problem so far but are you guys saying that I could get a problem starting even doing this?
regards Terry 

 

If the boot remains open for longer the interior lights should go off on their own after 30 or 60 min to preserve the 12v Battery. When you shut the door they comes on again and off as the usual way. Doing this once in a while won’t be a problem. 👍

[Centaur]

6 hours ago, SO8 said:

I worked for National Highways and they use Noco battery packs … awesome bit of kit.  I bought the ‘updated’ version for my Yaris and another for the wife’s C-HR … mine now sits in the PHEV.  I’ve luckily never had to use it on my Toyotas but bought it after reading loads like this and knowing what was good through work at the time.  

The Noco has helped a few other people out so I know it works well.  Not cheap but tiny and worth having in the boot for peace of mind.  Shouldn’t really be needed though !

What model Noco did you get / would you recommend?  Sounds like a good bit of kit to keep in the boot.

[Yugguy1970]

Ah.  If you leave it in Accessory mode it's like leaving a normal car with ignition on but even worse in our cars. 

IMO there's absolutely no need for this mode in a hybrid.  Off or Ready.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Centaur said:

What model Noco did you get / would you recommend?  Sounds like a good bit of kit to keep in the boot.

No, don't keep it in the boot - if the auxiliary Battery runs flat, the tailgate won't open. I keep mine under a seat in the body of the car - at least that way I can get at it if I ever need it.

I have a NOCO Boost Sport GB20 which is way more than enough to jump start a hybrid. A smaller jump start pack would do the job but that's the smallest NOCO Boost ...

[SO8]

22 minutes ago, philip42h said:

No, don't keep it in the boot - if the auxiliary battery runs flat, the tailgate won't open. I keep mine under a seat in the body of the car - at least that way I can get at it if I ever need it.

I have a NOCO Boost Sport GB20 which is way more than enough to jump start a hybrid. A smaller jump start pack would do the job but that's the smallest NOCO Boost ...

You don't need to open the tailgate - leave it by the rear seat and put the back seat down from inside to grab it.  That's where I keep mine.  Under the seat is ok too as out of view.

[SO8]

1 hour ago, Centaur said:

What model Noco did you get / would you recommend?  Sounds like a good bit of kit to keep in the boot.

Any of the 'GB' ones are fine.  GB40 is the best value for money at around £90-95 but GB20 and GB30 will do the job as the 'starter' Battery is small.  

I got effectively the same as we used at Highways ... (they use a GB70) which is total overkill ... but I got the 'uprated' one which has a newer supposedly better battery; the GBX75. 

I now keep a GBX55 in the Rav4 which was in my Yaris.  The GBX75 is spare as was in my X3 but that is now sold so the GBX75 is sitting in the garage. 

It is safe to say my neighbours are happy with me when their cars 'die'.

 

[ernieb]

Never had to use my booster on any of my cars so far, dangerous thing to say. But I’ve got my neighbours going a few times now and saves them a call to the recovery service. 

[Terry10]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

If the boot remains open for longer the interior lights should go off on their own after 30 or 60 min to preserve the 12v battery. When you shut the door they comes on again and off as the usual way. Doing this once in a while won’t be a problem. 👍

Thanks for that Tony, Reading this did make me stop and think. Did it again today for about 3 hours and no problem. I just thought that , ok hatch open and boot light on but will go out shortly. This hybrid thing does keep you thinking doesn't it.

Terry

[ColinB]

I bought the GB20, used it once on my C-HR but haven't needed it (yet) on the RAV4. My daughter's boyfriend used it several times on his Fiesta though.

Colin

[tfc]

I did a test on these Battery packs a couple of years ago and wanted to see how good they are given the small size and how they compare to a old conventional type. pack.

I disconnected the earth lead from the Battery so there was no power coming from the 12 volt Battery, the cranking power is solely from the power pack.

Here's a badly edited video I did and I've just uploaded it to my Library, its not in the public gallery.

 

 

[Gray86]

Do bear in mind that letting a Battery fully discharge does damage the Battery & capacity, so more likely to fail again in future. If you can trickle charge regularly this is much better than just allowing Battery to go flat, then boosting. 

[Nick72]

On 5/1/2023 at 9:58 AM, Broadway One said:

Hi all......its been awhile.
Recently let down with my RAV PHEV.
Parked up away from home only to find no response upon return to the car.
Lots of activity on the mid but nil when pressing the start button.
Quickly & efficiently sorted by the AA call out guy; flat 12v battery.
Apparently he tells me it's very common in the  EV/PHEV world.
My confidence in the vehicle has taken a knock on this occasion.
Disappointed.......Barry Wright, Lancashire.      

Easily solved Barry. My dealer accidentally wound back my software (I'm convinced of that) and the flat Battery problems started. Went flat many times across 4 or 5 weeks despite very long drives where the 12V ought to have been full up. 

It's the DCM (telemetry module) not !Removed! down properly. There's a software update which fixes it. Never had a problem since and the car has been left for 2 weeks after only very short 4 or 5 minute trips for a week or two prior. No problems at all.

 

Insist your dealer updates the DCM Software. It's a parasitic drain on the 12V because it ain't shutting down.

 

I carry a NOCO booster just in case in the centre console. Never had to use it since the update.