2019 CHR battery keeps discharging

[96McKJ91]

12 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

I believe it is slightly different the energy flow.
The 12v battery powers up everything directly with exception of AC compressor and the traction motor.
The inverter/ converter otoh supply up to 15v to recharge the small 12v battery, the power supply comes from the bigger 200v hybrid battery, when this battery gets low the engine kicks in to recharge it.
The whole process is similar to the standard car with ice and alternator. If your 12v battery is completely dead , shorted or any other failure the whole system will become inactive and you won’t be able to run the car at all. 
When I test my car as soon as I start the car ( in ready mode ) I got 14.7v measurements taken from the battery terminals, with or without any electrical consumers. When checking with Carista app over the phone I read 15v as seen by the ecu. 
The only difference from other members explained is that the 12v battery always power up and supply all the system in the car and inverter is charging this battery. 
AC does affect the efficiency a bit especially in hot days and when driving in town because it drains the hybrid battery faster and reduces the ev time. The heater does affect efficiency too, the engine will run more frequently and for longer. Good to have these two ON according to the season because the cabin temperature also maintains the hybrid battery temperature. Battery chemistry does like ambient temperatures all the time 15-25C° 👍

Thanks for all this information TonyHSD it’s good for me to try and understand how this car works. So from all of this I taking it that I shouldn’t be worried when I use any of the facilities available in the car. If the car is working correctly it shouldn’t be an issue - yes. It will just be my petrol economy only that should be affected 

do you think Toyota will put a Battery in with more than 12v what should I be expecting them to do after this overnight diagnostic check? What should be the correct resolution - I just want to know what I should be saying if they come back to me saying the Battery is ok and it’s my fault. Thanks. 

[96McKJ91]

11 hours ago, philip42h said:

So the car was three or for years old when new to you. How many miles had it done? And have you any idea how long it was sat around before you acquired it?

We'll probably never know for sure but it seems perfectly possible that the auxiliary battery has 'gone bad' and this is nothing at all to do with what you have done with the car but due to the circumstances of its use and storage in it's former life.

Hi Philip42h

yes car was new to me at nearly 4 years old. It had done around 39,000m 

I can see it was sold on after 3 yrs of ownership as it was serviced in Ipswich for the 1st 3 years march 22 and was then serviced / stamped at Gatwick in I believe July 22 I will have to check the service book for the mileage at last service but it works out that it had done around 10,000 miles per year apart from Covid year 2020 where it still managed to do 6,500 ish miles. So don’t think it’s been sat still for too long. But there may have been a lull before I purchased it. 
I’m just hoping Toyota will just fix it as I really love the car and don’t want to have to change it cos of this issue !! 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, 96McKJ91 said:

Thanks for all this information TonyHSD it’s good for me to try and understand how this car works. So from all of this I taking it that I shouldn’t be worried when I use any of the facilities available in the car. If the car is working correctly it shouldn’t be an issue - yes. It will just be my petrol economy only that should be affected 

do you think Toyota will put a battery in with more than 12v what should I be expecting them to do after this overnight diagnostic check? What should be the correct resolution - I just want to know what I should be saying if they come back to me saying the battery is ok and it’s my fault. Thanks. 

You are welcome. 
As others noted above it might not be a problem the way you drive  or use the car but the Battery itself been bad, end of its life.
Short trips less than 20-30 min each time with all accessories ON like radio, wipers, lights, hvac, will reduce Battery capacity and the system will not have enough time to recharge it. Perhaps it’s a time for a new 12v Battery.
It is a bit of a short life only 4 years, however we need to take into account how the car was used before you have taken ownership. In some cases these cars get their batteries discharged low even before been delivered to their first owners when still brand new and if this happens plus irregular use or only short trips afterwards it will shorten the lifespan of the battery. The battery once dropped belt certification voltage and left like that for a while then even recharged full with external charger will not hold charge well and soon will die again. See what Toyota dealer will say. Buy a new battery and then after with your daily use of 20-30 min each time you should have no further issues. And if you do then it’s a fault with the car or the battery and they should exchange it under warranty. 
Regards 

[Big_D]

As @Cyker said on Monday, make it he Dealer's problem. After all, you've only had the car since February (about three months) and if they were a decent Dealer, they should come to the party and replace the Battery.

[96McKJ91]

Hi all so just a quick update - Toyota have had the car on charge all day and have found a dead cell in the Battery, hence the reason it wasn’t holding its charge. They said they didn’t need to do the drain test (not sure if that is the right term), as fault has been found. Should they have still done the test or not? They also said I shouldn’t jump start anyone else’s car (not that I have but previous owner may have) as these cars or the Battery can be affected by this , however I can use other cars to jumpstart mine, probably best not to jumpstart with another hybrid though. Hope that all makes some sort of sense.

Does anybody think I should still get the solar drip charge item or something to monitor auxiliary Battery. I know it’s new and should be ok  just thought it might be handy for peace of mind 

They are replacing the battery costing £165. I take it that this isn’t in their warranty cover!! 🤪

[Big_D]

From what you say, it's a faulty Battery, so I don't think  a drain test would be required. If the Battery was fine, and still not holding a charge, there would be something else causing the Battery to go flat. This is where the drain test comes in. They check to see there is nothing which may be draining the battery.

At least they are replacing the battery at their cost, which is what any decent dealer should do.

 

 

[Derek.w]

As a rule of thumb dont jump start a car if it has a larger Battery than yours ie in Ah.

If Battery cell has failed on your Battery then a dran test is not required but a charging test is thats standard practice.

[Derek.w]

Solar charging it depends on how many hours of sunshine and its intensity best to have a mains charger as well.

If you are in a shaded area for most of the day then go for mains charger.

[Big_D]

The AA Solar charger needs very little sunlight to work. I tested it while parked in the shade (in early January this year) and even though there was no direct sunlight, it still worked fine.

[O.W.L.]

It needs daylight, not sunshine. Subtle difference, but important.

[Big_D]

4 minutes ago, O.W.L. said:

It needs daylight, not sunshine. Subtle difference, but important.

Very true. Well spotted

[Derek.w]

Well mine gives very little assistance in daylight if its cloudy but then at the moment because  of time of year the low orbit of the sun without sunshine most days I only have about 2 or 3 hours at best the rest of the time its blocked out by trees and buildings.

[Dala]

solar panel 20w

  

  

  

[Mojo1010]

Your usage are more than enough for charging the Battery, doesn't need any solar or charging devices. The consumer act requires the vendor to supply a product fit for purpose for about 6 months, so they had to replace it at their cost. Shouldn't have any problem once replaced. 

[Big_D]

7 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

Your usage are more than enough for charging the battery, doesn't need any solar or charging devices. The consumer act requires the vendor to supply a product fit for purpose for about 6 months, so they had to replace it at their cost. Shouldn't have any problem once replaced. 

I totally agree. 

[Derek.w]

23 hours ago, Big_D said:

The AA Solar charger needs very little sunlight to work. I tested it while parked in the shade (in early January this year) and even though there was no direct sunlight, it still worked fine.

Hear a sample from a 5 watt solar charger

 charging at 0.006 Amps

and the next photo not charging as led is not ON Note meter is giving a reading of LUX light intensity.

I also have a 20 watt solar charger but in January the sun is so low in the sky that its blocked out by buildings and trees.

[Big_D]

Mine was definitely charging as the blue light was on. I also measured the voltage across the terminals

[Roy124]

Jenny, good result. Advice regarding using a hybrid to jump start another car is probably related to the way the hybrid recharges the 12v Battery. 

A conventional vehicle will us its alternator to provide the power via the host Battery.  With a hybrid its Battery is effectively on its own. 

[yossarian247]

On 5/7/2023 at 8:56 AM, Roy124 said:

Jenny, good result. Advice regarding using a hybrid to jump start another car is probably related to the way the hybrid recharges the 12v battery. 

A conventional vehicle will us its alternator to provide the power via the host battery.  With a hybrid its battery is effectively on its own. 

Yes I think there's two reasons. One is that a hybrid's 12v system is not designed to handle the level of current and possible voltage drop/surge of operating a starter motor because in a hybrid its not the 12v system which cranks the engine.

The other is that the OEM 12v batteries fitted to some Toyota hybrids seem to have a very low CCA rating and are just not intended to ever crank an engine. For example the OEM Varta Battery on my 2.0 Corolla had a CCA rating of 286A, whereas I've just replaced it with a Varta Silver of the same physical size with a CCA of 530A.

[Derek.w]

On 5/6/2023 at 10:37 PM, Big_D said:

Mine was definitely charging as the blue light was on. I also measured the voltage across the terminals

I check the ampage output/against voltage when I have time and post it on hear.

[Derek.w]

I am interested in the light intensity against voltage x current will give a wattage reading for all solar panels but against a 5 watt panel with the blue light on its going to be just stopping the Battery discharging from its current value more than using it to recharge the Battery to fully charged condition.

Of course I going to do this with Battery disconnected from car so  NO car .system dranage is taken into account. Its just for curiosity.