2.0 hybrid judder /missfire

[taxidriver50005]

23 hours ago, Gray86 said:

I’ve seen this topic discussed on Facebook groups & even Toyota techs haven’t heard of it. Sounds like a handful of cases in the UK only, mainly taxis. Not something to worry about. Use good quality fuel to help mitigate 

While chatting to service department the guy tells me they have 3 master techs working for them and they use a forum of sum descript... This subject has come up a lot apparently.. So much so when I took my car in they just told me it was injectors even without official diagnostic report. 

[2badmice]

On 5/9/2023 at 1:58 PM, taxidriver50005 said:

I'm hoping you want need to revisit this

Same, I am a low mileage user, and I think it will be a long time before I am faced with this issue, could even be under this if I consider trading in a couple of years

[TonyHSD]

10 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

While chatting to service department the guy tells me they have 3 master techs working for them and they use a forum of sum descript... This subject has come up a lot apparently.. So much so when I took my car in they just told me it was injectors even without official diagnostic report. 

I smell bad fuel quality the reason for issues. Taxi cars affected perhaps  because many drivers mindset is refill cheapest possible. When I go Tesco and use e5 99 next to me came a Corolla TS ph car, the driver went straight for the cheapest option e10, and I did asked him why not try the e5 99 and he answered, “my car is hybrid and this is ok for her,” then I told him my car it’s also a hybrid and drives so much better with e5 and I get 5mpg more but for the same price of e10 from bp or Shell but he looked at me like I am stupid 😂👌 

[taxidriver50005]

11 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

I smell bad fuel quality the reason for issues. Taxi cars affected perhaps  because many drivers mindset is refill cheapest possible. When I go Tesco and use e5 99 next to me came a Corolla TS ph car, the driver went straight for the cheapest option e10, and I did asked him why not try the e5 99 and he answered, “my car is hybrid and this is ok for her,” then I told him my car it’s also a hybrid and drives so much better with e5 and I get 5mpg more but for the same price of e10 from bp or shell but he looked at me like I am stupid 😂👌 

Well the other guy who had his motor replaced is a Shell or esso guy and that's all he uses..... Time will tell. 

[Gray86]

23 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

While chatting to service department the guy tells me they have 3 master techs working for them and they use a forum of sum descript... This subject has come up a lot apparently.. So much so when I took my car in they just told me it was injectors even without official diagnostic report. 

They are probably amongst us on here!

[gazooracer]

I bought a 2.0 hybrid 2020 Toyota Corolla estate, it started misfiring at 32k, took it to Toyota, they replaced injector #3, drove about 8k it started misfiring again, this time went for major service n they replaced injector #2, did about 10k, injector #3 & #1 went again, again new injectors under warranty. Drove for four days and had a catastrophic blast, Conrod broke through the side of the engine block and resulted in complete engine destruction.

Toyota promised a new engine under warranty, but if it's going to come from the same year production lot I don't think problem will be fixed as 8cars out of ten are having the same issue from 2020 2.0 hybrid. Toyota did a dirty one to it's customers on this one, didn't recall all the cars to fix the issue, just to avoid massive dent on their budget.....

Very disappointed..... Never buying again.....

[davidif]

Very disappointing. Although for balance I have a 2.0 Corolla with approaching 30k miles and haven't experienced the injector issues (or indeed any issues)

I will be buying again.

 

[TonyHSD]

Hm, if these are an injector issues, what exactly is the fault with those? 
The engine very likely had experienced a hydro lock to break a conrod and destroy the block. This could be either filled by liquid fuel or coolant or water  enters intake. How a bad injectors can do that its interesting. 

My old Auris 1.8 hybrid sometimes experience bad knocking, shaking on cold starts that are exactly the same as your Corolla 2.0.
However these cold starts knocking happens with mostly petrol from one particular garage, local Tesco that sells cheaper fuels. I had been monitoring the situation for over 3 years now and usually this happens when the car stood for 3-4 days or longer , but again only with cheap supermarket  petrol.
I was suspicious about head gasket and coolant enters the combustion chambers but I have no coolant consumption. Once was behind the car when engine started on cold with these bangs and it threw out white smoke like there was moisture in the combustion that has cleaned the carbon buildup. 
Branded fuels almost never an issue. 
 

[shufman]

I’ve heard the failures are quite rare but it’s definitely an issue and with Yaris some engines too. 
 

Each time the faulty one has been replaced with no problems. 

[Gray86]

I’m approaching 31k miles now, and unless I swap for a RAV4 PHEV next year, will be keeping this for a while. Interested to see whether I have a problem, after predominantly running on supermarket fuel, with occasional tank of super. 

[yossarian247]

Mine has covered 46k now and no sign of any injector issues, touch wood!

[gazooracer]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:24 AM, TonyHSD said:

Hm, if these are an injector issues, what exactly is the fault with those? 
The engine very likely had experienced a hydro lock to break a conrod and destroy the block. This could be either filled by liquid fuel or coolant or water  enters intake. How a bad injectors can do that its interesting. 

My old Auris 1.8 hybrid sometimes experience bad knocking, shaking on cold starts that are exactly the same as your Corolla 2.0.
However these cold starts knocking happens with mostly petrol from one particular garage, local Tesco that sells cheaper fuels. I had been monitoring the situation for over 3 years now and usually this happens when the car stood for 3-4 days or longer , but again only with cheap supermarket  petrol.
I was suspicious about head gasket and coolant enters the combustion chambers but I have no coolant consumption. Once was behind the car when engine started on cold with these bangs and it threw out white smoke like there was moisture in the combustion that has cleaned the carbon buildup. 
Branded fuels almost never an issue. 
 

Hi,

Thank you for the reply, when I went to pick up my car after service and injector replacement, the dealer told me they had changed gaskets for something which I can't remember exactly what he said was for, but as you're suggesting, my brother said the same as he is a technician in VW that he can't understand how injectors can cause all this. But having read your post I know now what exactly has happened here. The gasket didn't sit well and let the fluids oil/ coolant get into the air intake which has caused the hydro lock resulting in such a catastrophic failure. 

But the workshop manager keeps denying any wrong doing and obviously he will and is insisting that he doesn't know the cause behind this catastrophic failure.

But thank you very much for the help and all the info & insight. This has definitely resolved the puzzle for me. Much appreciated 👍.

[Saxmaniac]

Is this a direct injection (and port injection combined)engine? Would be interesting to know if it's the direct injectors failing. They're under most stress, I've never trusted GDI but hoped Toyota might do better than some other makes 

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, Saxmaniac said:

Is this a direct injection (and port injection combined)engine? Would be interesting to know if it's the direct injectors failing. They're under most stress, I've never trusted GDI but hoped Toyota might do better than some other makes 

It's the direct injectors that are failing... But on what seams like only 2020 model... Bad batch me thinks. 

[shufman]

Mine were port injectors. No issues with running/driving. 

[taxidriver50005]

4 minutes ago, shufman said:

Mine were port injectors. No issues with running/driving. 

So how did you know you had a problem 

[TonyHSD]

If some says direct injectors are to blame, others says it’s the port injectors I am suspicious the dealer word is not to be taken exactly. I don’t think there are issues on some cars with direct injectors and others with port injectors. Here we have most likely a bad batch, poor manufacturing or something similar in some products and the problem likely is within the same issue, so it will be either direct or port but not in between in the different cases. 
This is only a speculation but makes sense to me. Dealers rep often bend the truth just to protect the image of Toyota or the dealership they work. We don’t mind about that, but we would like to know the real reason and the truth just to be on the safer side when buying a used Corolla with 2.0 engines. 
 

[shufman]

55 minutes ago, taxidriver50005 said:

So how did you know you had a problem 

All it was that on start up in the initial phase it started to miss slightly - just enough to notice. Often when you start there’s an initial phase then the engine note deepens like it’s running stuff. Sometimes it juddered after warm start when the engine is running but at idle for the first mile or so. No lights or error codes. 
 

I meant that the car ran smoothly in most normal driving situations so was quite subtle. 

[gazooracer]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:37 AM, davidif said:

Very disappointing. Although for balance I have a 2.0 Corolla with approaching 30k miles and haven't experienced the injector issues (or indeed any issues)

I will be buying again.

Have you been using E5 99 or E10 fuel in your car?

[gazooracer]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:13 PM, Saxmaniac said:

Is this a direct injection (and port injection combined)engine? Would be interesting to know if it's the direct injectors failing. They're under most stress, I've never trusted GDI but hoped Toyota might do better than some other makes 

No this isn't combined or port, this is direct injection crap and sadly saying it has been so disappointing so far that I don't have any faith left in Toyota anymore. Also some people in America are saying Toyota is discontinuing old 1.8 and is replacing that with the 2.0 which I don't think they are going to do here in UK or Europe. And apparently Toyota did it worst out of all others cus every other 2.0 hybrid owner seems to be complaining about the same issue (injectors failure). Toyota didn't even initiate any recall programme for such a common issue, neither has anyone from my local Toyota dealership advised me to use E5. I came on this forum and found out. Now the car has been with Toyota for the past two weeks, Dealership keeps telling me that they're waiting for the decision to be made by Toyota's head office and Toyota is delaying the new engine under warranty, Toyota just keep asking for more and more info from the dealership. Had I known all this was gonna happen, I had never gone for such expensive car to be honest. Very disappointed.

[gazooracer]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:10 PM, taxidriver50005 said:

It's the direct injectors that are failing... But on what seams like only 2020 model... Bad batch me thinks.

Direct injectors are failing for sure but I don't think cuz it was a bad batch of injectors, as they replaced injectors twice with brand new ones, and yet the failed. Have you tried E5 fuel? If yes, did you notice any difference? Cuz I really can't afford to change my car also I love my car to the bits don't wanna change it either but I don't have any faith left in it after it blew up it's engine. God forbids, if this happens out of warranty, I am drowned alive.

[shufman]

I’ve used E5 (Shell V Power but I’ve changed to Esso Supreme) since new. The engine is quieter and smoother on the Esso to my surprise but I think it uses a little more fuel but now it’s quite cold I can’t be sure. Plus is 10p a litre cheaper so bonus! 
 

I’ve changed my fuel after the second injector issue as it ran perfectly until 20000 miles then went again after another 10.. so we’ll see…

My partner has a Yaris Cross and runs on V Power with no issues but it’s only done 9k in 2 years. 

[yossarian247]

After having said that my car shows no signs of this it occurred to me at the weekend after driving a lot of miles in it that it does, very slightly. I would describe it as a slightly lumpy idle occasionally when the petrol engine starts from cold. I also notice when driving an almost momentary pause as the car switches from EV mode before the petrol engine fires up. The car has always done this in the time I've owned it so I assumed both of these were just characteristics of the 2.0 engine. I've never known any of the 1.8 hybrids I've driven to do this, the switch between electric and petrol has always been virtually seamless on those.

In the case of my car both issues are so barely noticeable that I'm not going to worry about it unless it gets worse. I cover very few miles and have the car serviced at a main dealer, so really it's got almost 7 years of warranty left.

I think the problem with Toyota initiating a recall program at this stage is that firstly they don't seem sure what the cause is, or have a definitive fix! 

 

 

[TonyHSD]

The fuel quality and control in uk is poor and hit and miss. 
I am using between 60-100 litres per week and I can tell a difference between two fill ups from same garage , same brand, same type of petrol. While on paper all fuels might come from same refinery or fulfil requirements by BS in reality the picture is very different. Only those who work within the industry, chemist, drivers, distributors, sellers etc can enlighten us what is all about, similar to people who work in hospitality, they know what is behind the scenes of restaurants and hotels best.
Does anyone ever notice while travelling through Europe and fill up from German petrol stations that the car feels more alive? This is happening on weekly basis with me, once the car drives fine while the next fill up is sluggish, noisier and rough engine work plus misfire on cold starts, in hybrids add the horrible thud when the car transition from ev to petrol, and yes this happens because of the fuel, 1.8 dies that too. 👍
 

[ThomasL]

If UK fuel is such an issue surely every car model from every manufacturer would be suffering?

I suppose we just have to conclude that the M20A-FXS engine is simply not fit for the purpose of being used in the UK. Maybe it should only be available in Germany and Japan?

Toyota seriously need to sort something out, as a first step it would be nice if they'd admit they have a problem!