2.0 hybrid judder /missfire

[Eddiefh]

Does it just effect the 2 litre or the 1.8 hybrid aswell 

[yossarian247]

1 hour ago, Eddiefh said:

Does it just effect the 2 litre or the 1.8 hybrid aswell 

Just the 2 litre. 

[taxidriver50005]

2 hours ago, ThomasL said:

If UK fuel is such an issue surely every car model from every manufacturer would be suffering?

I suppose we just have to conclude that the M20A-FXS engine is simply not fit for the purpose of being used in the UK. Maybe it should only be available in Germany and Japan?

Toyota seriously need to sort something out, as a first step it would be nice if they'd admit they have a problem!

Problem is it works fine in other markets 😳😳😳🤔

[Gray86]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:41 AM, yossarian247 said:

After having said that my car shows no signs of this it occurred to me at the weekend after driving a lot of miles in it that it does, very slightly. I would describe it as a slightly lumpy idle occasionally when the petrol engine starts from cold. I also notice when driving an almost momentary pause as the car switches from EV mode before the petrol engine fires up. The car has always done this in the time I've owned it so I assumed both of these were just characteristics of the 2.0 engine. I've never known any of the 1.8 hybrids I've driven to do this, the switch between electric and petrol has always been virtually seamless on those.

In the case of my car both issues are so barely noticeable that I'm not going to worry about it unless it gets worse. I cover very few miles and have the car serviced at a main dealer, so really it's got almost 7 years of warranty left.

I think the problem with Toyota initiating a recall program at this stage is that firstly they don't seem sure what the cause is, or have a definitive fix! 

 

 

Mine too has a slightly lumpy cold idle (31,000 miles). Going to try a tank of V-Power next to see if that cures it 

[TonyHSD]

18 hours ago, Gray86 said:

Mine too has a slightly lumpy cold idle (31,000 miles). Going to try a tank of V-Power next to see if that cures it 

With premium fuel with less alcohol inside and higher octane numbers the petrol engine will start and stop smother and also the transition between electric and petrol will be smoother too. The engine will have more power at low and mid range rpm and less metallic noises and no tiny vibrations, which are typical for all petrol engines running on higher then 5% ethanol in the fuel mixture. You may also find 2-4 mpg increase in your range.

 

The differences are more noticeable when you drive relax and not mashing the pedal to the metal and expect turbo performance from a non turbo car. 

[shufman]

I’ve switched to Esso Supreme and the engine is loads quieter and smoother.  Really impressed 

[Gray86]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

With premium fuel with less alcohol inside and higher octane numbers the petrol engine will start and stop smother and also the transition between electric and petrol will be smoother too. The engine will have more power at low and mid range rpm and less metallic noises and no tiny vibrations, which are typical for all petrol engines running on higher then 5% ethanol in the fuel mixture. You may also find 2-4 mpg increase in your range.

 

The differences are more noticeable when you drive relax and not mashing the pedal to the metal and expect turbo performance from a non turbo car. 

I’ve used 99RON super unleaded (E5) quite a few times before, and noticed the smoothness & quietness of running improve. MPG never seems any better though. Will see on the next tank! 
 

in all honesty the transition to ICE from EV is relatively smooth as it is 

[shahid banaras]

I had this problem twice. Bought this carolla 12 months ago on 2020 plate with 48k on clock. About 10k miles later got the missfire problem. Diagnostic done from dealers and said injector 1 and 3 faulty. Got them replaced under warranty. 20k miles later same problem again. This time injector 2 and 3 again faulty. They did say they dont know the cause of this. Maybe it the fuel or teething problems with 2.0 Corollas

[taxidriver50005]

2 hours ago, shahid banaras said:

I had this problem twice. Bought this carolla 12 months ago on 2020 plate with 48k on clock. About 10k miles later got the missfire problem. Diagnostic done from dealers and said injector 1 and 3 faulty. Got them replaced under warranty. 20k miles later same problem again. This time injector 2 and 3 again faulty. They did say they dont know the cause of this. Maybe it the fuel or teething problems with 2.0 Corollas

It always appears to be number 3 at fault from what I can tell and nearly always 2020 model year. 

My dealer said he couldn't see why other dealers were not replacing all 4 injectors as they were under warranty in case its a bad batch. 

[Cyker]

The problem is there are really good dealers but also really bad dealers with a whole spectrum in-between. Finding the good ones is the trick!

[ThomasL]

On 4/25/2024 at 3:29 PM, shahid banaras said:

I had this problem twice. Bought this carolla 12 months ago on 2020 plate with 48k on clock. About 10k miles later got the missfire problem. Diagnostic done from dealers and said injector 1 and 3 faulty. Got them replaced under warranty. 20k miles later same problem again. This time injector 2 and 3 again faulty. They did say they dont know the cause of this. Maybe it the fuel or teething problems with 2.0 Corollas

I'm trying to figure out a pattern.

Your new #3 injector failed after 20k miles, but your #1 keeps working... Makes me think it's not an injector batch problem.

What are your driving patterns? Distance short/long, speed slow/fast, acceleration easy/hard?

And what fuel do you usually buy? Cheapest, supermarket, branded, premium?

There's a page in the owners manual that states to use premium unleaded which I believe in Japan is the equivalent to 96+ octane... So UK 95 octane may be one too few octane??

Edited April 26 by ThomasL
clarify Japan premium is 96 octane

[ThomasL]

Here it is, on page 609 under Specifications (chapter 9-1).

It says use premium, but then says 95 RON... According to Wikipedia, Japanese premium is 96+ RON...

So I wonder if the 2L dynamic force engine is designed for Japanese premium (96 RON) and 95 RON is just far enough outside the design spec to cause a random #3 injector failure every so often...

 

[ThomasL]

PS the same page of the manual states that "light knocking for a short time while accelerating or driving uphill... is normal and there is no need for concern" 🤔

[Parts-King]

it's always number 3 injector, they will not authorise for all 4 to be replaced, they will only replace the faulty one 

[taxidriver50005]

2 hours ago, Parts-King said:

it's always number 3 injector, they will not authorise for all 4 to be replaced, they will only replace the faulty one 

I personally know of 3 other corolla's besides my own that have had all 4 injectors replaced under warranty, dealer told me he ALWAYS replaces all 4 unless the owner is paying and then it just the faulty one. 

[shahid banaras]

11 hours ago, ThomasL said:

I'm trying to figure out a pattern.

Your new #3 injector failed after 20k miles, but your #1 keeps working... Makes me think it's not an injector batch problem.

What are your driving patterns? Distance short/long, speed slow/fast, acceleration easy/hard?

And what fuel do you usually buy? Cheapest, supermarket, branded, premium?

There's a page in the owners manual that states to use premium unleaded which I believe in Japan is the equivalent to 96+ octane... So UK 95 octane may be one too few octane??

I'm a taxi driver. 90% of trips are in and around the city. I drive calmly in the city due to traffic. The fuel I have been using is Shell E10.

[TonyHSD]

10 hours ago, shahid banaras said:

I'm a taxi driver. 90% of trips are in and around the city. I drive calmly in the city due to traffic. The fuel I have been using is shell E10.

My recent experience with misfire and rough engine running accompanied by loud knocking noises on cold start after 10 days of not using the car just proof to me one more time that the fuels aren’t good quality and this is the major problem to the cars. I left the car with e5 99 petrol from Tesco to stand for 10 days and then after the first start was really bad, a minute of loud engine knocking, these were also presented for the next couple of cold starts 4-5 maybe through the next two days.

Refiled with bp 97 e5 and added wynns e10 stabiliser into the tank and no problems, no knocking, no drama ever since and even after I finished the tank I ran Shell e10 afterwards with no problems. 
Give a try to this in your car Wynn's 38911 Specialist E10 Petrol Fuel Protector Makes E10 Safe For All Petrol Engines https://amzn.eu/d/gNABLvT

it works well indeed. 👍

[ThomasL]

11 hours ago, shahid banaras said:

I'm a taxi driver. 90% of trips are in and around the city. I drive calmly in the city due to traffic. The fuel I have been using is shell E10.

Calm city driving I believe doesn't make use of the direct injectors much. So could something bad happen if remnants of fuel or water are left inside the injector for a long time? If so a regular blast might help to keep them running. Odd that it's almost always #3 though!

Another thought, perhaps the engine being in ready mode (and being kept up to operating temperature) for 8+ hours a shift results in some heat damage - injector #3 being in the middle would suffer more.

Or maybe it's just something like vibrations damaging that specific injector...

As for me, I will keep using premium unleaded and hope that helps (if nothing else, maybe it will slow down the clogging of the EGR valve and butterfly valve)

[taxidriver50005]

It would be nice to know what exactly fails... Seals... Injector nozzle clogged... Electronics of injector... If we knew what part had failed we maybe could mitigate it somehow but as it stands nobody knows or isn't saying... Is it possible ecu frying the injector.. Maybe a software update could cure it who knows 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[Steven83]

I’ve got the 2020, I’ve had it 1 year now and added around 5000 miles in my time owning it. (Total for car 35000)

Not had any issues yet and there is no evidence in the service history to it having this issue. 
 

Time will tell I suppose. I do tend to use premium fuel but I think it’s unlikely the previous owner did so as much as me. 
 

edit: I have the the 2.0 and most of my driving is 30 min trips to and from work 10 mins of that being motorway.

i regularly do short 5 min trips to gym and every now and maybe 2 times per year a 4 hour drive to London. 
 

So my car doesn’t get pushed that much really. 

[ThomasL]

My driving sounds similar to yours. Daily short 30mph drives, perhaps an hour a week at 60-70mph, and a long journey once or twice a month. However I do tend to give in to the temptation of the accelerator pedal quite often!

I imagine our cars aren't living the same sort of life as a taxi so hopefully you'll be fine, but keep us informed.

 

[TonyHSD]

The type of driving styles and patterns might not have anything  to do with injectors issues as the problem is happening when the car is off.
The injectors remain closed but somehow leaking fuel into combustion, then on the first start the fuel creates a hydro lock and destroys the engine.
In my case since the quantity of fuel is not that much only creates misfire and upset the drive train and the damper clutch starts knocking badly. 
Happens mostly with cheap supermarket fuels both e10 or e5 and very rarely with good quality bp, Shell , esso fuels. Highly recommended to anyone who gets engine rough idle, rough starts, cold start knocking, not smooth transition from ev to ice buy some good quality petrol additives and add as per the label suggesting and see if anything changes. 

[Dylanfan]

Supermarket fuel does not have all the additives used by the main brands. This is much more noticeable with diesel than petrol but still worth noting.

When I ran diesel’s I stopped using supermarket fuel because the engines were noisier and smoked more.

 I don’t usually use supermarket fuel in the Corolla and also use E5 every 3rd or 4th fill up. E5 may cost more but the car is so economical and the tank small that the cost difference isn’t a real issue. I’ve had cars with 80ltr tank that averaged 28mpg so 60+ mpg is nice😆

[Parts-King]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:49 PM, taxidriver50005 said:

I personally know of 3 other corolla's besides my own that have had all 4 injectors replaced under warranty, dealer told me he ALWAYS replaces all 4 unless the owner is paying and then it just the faulty one. 

You may well have, but if there is no fault data to support fitting 4 then you won't be able to claim them. Warranty is there to replace the faulty item, it does not cover "just in case" claims. All claims have to be supported by fault code data 

[Trewithy]

I may be wrong but I believe that the engine in the 1.5 Yaris is the same engine as in the 2.0LCorolla but just reduced to 3 cylinders.  In the Yaris section of this forum I don't recall any Yaris owners reporting failed injectors.  Strange.