2.0 hybrid judder /missfire

[ThomasL]

I think they can clog if unburnt fuel bakes onto them. Maybe if the engine turns off at the wrong time (before they've finished firing)...

Didn't one victim say that Toyota's investigation showed the spray pattern was wrong? That could mean a little bit clogged, or a little bit leaky...

[Cyker]

If so, using fuel like Shell V-Power/BP Ultimate etc. should help as the detergents in the fuels should help prevent deposits building up...?

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

If so, using fuel like Shell V-Power/BP Ultimate etc. should help as the detergents in the fuels should help prevent deposits building up...?

You'd think but a friend run his exclusively on vpower  and still neaded injectors 

[Cyker]

Yeah I remember reading that... it doesn't add up... very strange

[Niky]

10 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

You'd think but a friend run his exclusively on vpower  and still neaded injectors 

What are your driving  behaviours? I assume your friend's car is also a taxi, right.... I remember you mentioned once, you know a Lexus ES300H having injectors issues too...

I am wondering if you are driving too economically, keeping revs always low in slow city/heavy traffic? Not saying this is the reason for injectors failure, just being curious if such driving behaviour could have contributed to the issue.....

Does anyone here, doing mainly motorway driving, have had issues with his injectors? 

[taxidriver50005]

10 hours ago, Niky said:

What are your driving  behaviours? I assume your friend's car is also a taxi, right.... I remember you mentioned once, you know a Lexus ES300H having injectors issues too...

I am wondering if you are driving too economically, keeping revs always low in slow city/heavy traffic? Not saying this is the reason for injectors failure, just being curious if such driving behaviour could have contributed to the issue.....

Does anyone here, doing mainly motorway driving, have had issues with his injectors? 

Well I drive for economy but other lad doesn't give a toss and nail's it everywhere..... I switch off between jobs he leaves it in ready mode all day.... There's something else we're missing here if it is driver related 🤔

[TonyHSD]

I believe It is fuel related and not a dirt inside the fuel but on molecular level., the alcohol quantity inside, and lack of some additives in some fuels sold at different places. If you ever noticed so slightly different engine noise and behaviour when filled up at different garages or different petrols e5, e10, winter or summer mix etc  these are sign of problems on horizon. 
It’s not a drivers fault nor is bad batch injectors. 

[yossarian247]

On 5/24/2024 at 2:34 PM, TonyHSD said:

I believe It is fuel related and not a dirt inside the fuel but on molecular level., the alcohol quantity inside, and lack of some additives in some fuels sold at different places. If you ever noticed so slightly different engine noise and behaviour when filled up at different garages or different petrols e5, e10, winter or summer mix etc  these are sign of problems on horizon. 
It’s not a drivers fault nor is bad batch injectors. 

That doesn't really explain brand new replacement injectors failing almost immediately though? Unless the car had been filled with a tank of really bad fuel? However, if the fuel was so out of spec why do only one or two of the injectors fail on that particular car and not the others? 

[TonyHSD]

On 5/25/2024 at 3:39 PM, yossarian247 said:

That doesn't really explain brand new replacement injectors failing almost immediately though? Unless the car had been filled with a tank of really bad fuel? However, if the fuel was so out of spec why do only one or two of the injectors fail on that particular car and not the others? 

I can’t say with certainty that or anything about this issues as I never had Corolla or another model with 2.0 engine. 
Could be everything, but I don’t think bad batch injectors are the reason especially if this comes from a dealer mechanics or other employees. 
Poor fitting when new or afterwards in the dealer. If these aren’t an issue in USA , then the fuels are most common thing to look at since they are biggest difference together with the climate. 

[yossarian247]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

I can’t say with certainty that or anything about this issues as I never had Corolla or another model with 2.0 engine. 
Could be everything, but I don’t think bad batch injectors are the reason especially if this comes from a dealer mechanics or other employees. 
Poor fitting when new or afterwards in the dealer. If these aren’t an issue in USA , then the fuels are most common thing to look at since they are biggest difference together with the climate. 

Injector failures don't seem to be a problem in the US, but I have wondered if the variants sold there use different injectors to the engines we get here? Although the basic engine block design may be the same, it is very common for car manufacturers to tailor the ancillary components to individual markets, and sometimes source these components locally. Do US 2.0 Corollas use exactly the same part number injector as UK 2.0 Corollas? I don't know the answer to that, but it would be interesting to know. 

Also the UK only got the 2.0 litre engine in hybrid form, whereas for quite some time the US only had the 2.0 in their non-hybrids. Perhaps the non-hybrid 2.0 engine used different injectors, or maybe it is the stop-start characteristics of the hybrid which cause injector issues? I'm only speculating of course, but personally I think there are likely to be lots of variables other than just fuel quality. 

[ThomasL]

The M20A-FXS has been available for the Lexus UX250h in North America since 2018, so we need to check the Lexus North America forums to see if they've had issues.

Interestingly, toyodiy.com lists 18 different part numbers for the direct injector fuel assembly set for the M20A-FXS !

9 marks (revisions) of part number 23209-24010 (J) and another 9 marks for 23209-F2050 (L)... Could they have been busy trying to fix a design issue? It says to refer to the repair manual, so more research may be worth doing there... I don't know what J and L refer to either. ChatGPT thinks maybe Japan-hand-drive  and Left-hand drive...

Interestingly there's three part numbers for the port fuel injector set. One of those (23209-F9010) was only for September to October 2019... Then the part numbers changed to 23209-29185 for November 2019 onwards...

https://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2019_TOYOTA_COROLLA_MZEH12R-DHXGBW_2211.html

If anyone who's had repairs could list what part numbers were actually fitted (should be on the invoice) it might be helpful.

I think it's becoming more obvious that something has been going on. Could do with a TSB but of course it might be hard to find someone that is allowed to admit such a TSB exists

[taxidriver50005]

42 minutes ago, ThomasL said:

The M20A-FXS has been available for the Lexus UX250h in North America since 2018, so we need to check the Lexus North America forums to see if they've had issues.

Interestingly, toyodiy.com lists 18 different part numbers for the direct injector fuel assembly set for the M20A-FXS !

9 marks (revisions) of part number 23209-24010 (J) and another 9 marks for 23209-F2050 (L)... Could they have been busy trying to fix a design issue? It says to refer to the repair manual, so more research may be worth doing there... I don't know what J and L refer to either. ChatGPT thinks maybe Japan-hand-drive  and Left-hand drive...

Interestingly there's three part numbers for the port fuel injector set. One of those (23209-F9010) was only for September to October 2019... Then the part numbers changed to 23209-29185 for November 2019 onwards...

https://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2019_TOYOTA_COROLLA_MZEH12R-DHXGBW_2211.html

If anyone who's had repairs could list what part numbers were actually fitted (should be on the invoice) it might be helpful.

I think it's becoming more obvious that something has been going on. Could do with a TSB but of course it might be hard to find someone that is allowed to admit such a TSB exists

My port injectors were changed under Warranty... Ni paperwork w as given as no invoice needed... My toyota app just says repair carried out.. 🙄

[ThomasL]

Thanks anyway. Makes sense that you don't get paperwork for warranty work. Maybe the port injector batch from September to October 2019 was dodgy, and they still had a lot of them kicking around in warehouses which is why some people had multiple replacements... Although I thought they were all about "just in time" supply.

Whatever the issue at least they are trying to improve parts with different versions, some manufacturers don't do that!

[Steven83]

What are the symptoms of these injectors going wrong then.

is it something obvious that you can’t miss? 
 

I have the 2020 2.0 so theoretically I’m a potential for this issue.

[ThomasL]

Yes you'd probably know if you had misfires and juddering. We think it happens after 30k-odd miles.

A reasonable dealer should try to get Toyota to agree to replace a bad injector under warranty, but an unfair dealer might fight and blame bad fuel.

One guy says he has it, but only ever so slightly. Not worth worrying about in his case.

Another thread here had a poor guy where the dealership attempted a repair and shortly thereafter his engine blew up! Toyota refused to replace his engine because it was the dealership's fault. The dealership initially disagreed, but did eventually rebuild the engine.

My personal theory is that premium unleaded might help prevent it for one reason or t'other, and I'm happy to pay a few £ per tank more for premium fuels as an experiment. If I get the misfire, I'll know I was wrong.