Daily drive mileage to maintain a healthy 12volt battery

[MaDProFF]

Hi All.

I know there are a few threads, but rather just get some stright answers:-

I am just about to buy a new GR Yaris Hybrid, for my Girlfriend, but being put off over the 12 volt Battery issues due to lack of use, or short journey's etc.

She has a daily drive 5 days a week, around 3.5 miles to work from home and back again, although on this journey she will be driving up to 60 mph, so not just a short slow journey, and probably a couple of other drives of up to 15 miles in a general week, only averages around 2500 miles a yr, I know it is a bit like how long is a peice of string, but do people in general think this would be enough to keep the 12 volt Battery in a usable state, and none of this like the engine run for like 30 minutes to charge once a week, (tbh that is an insult, and defeats the whole object to own a hybrid).

Also is there a Battery upgrade available by putting in a far bigger battery, AGM or even a Lithium so it has more room to discharge etc?

Appeciate any replies

 

[Cyker]

I think if it's going to be used so little you'd likely need a charger to keep the Battery topped to save wasting fuel just to charge it.

TBH I don't see the point of buying such an expensive new car for such little mileage; Sure it's super economical, but you can get a much nicer/more luxurious used cars that cost much less and even if it's half as efficient you'll still have spent significantly less.

In fact, for such short journeys, an EV might be a better choice, especially if you can charge it at home. Something like an Ioniq or Kona Electric can be had used for half the cost of a Yaris Mk4 last time I looked.

[Bernard Foy]

Similar mileage to mine, and I’ve never had any Battery trouble with my last three Yaris hybrids. 

[TonyHSD]

The mileage or speed does not matter. The time car been ON is more important and how often you are tuning it on and off. If you use the car every day for 20 minutes or more each time you likely be ok and no need to keep in ready mode. But if you need to do so the engine will not be running all the time and it will be perhaps for each 30min in ready mode total engine running time around 8 min. This ready mode thing was a lockdown solution and not something that you have to do if you use the car on daily basis. 

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

The mileage or speed does not matter. The time car been ON is more important and how often you are tuning it on and off. If you use the car every day for 20 minutes or more each time you likely be ok and no need to keep in ready mode. But if you need to do so the engine will not be running all the time and it will be perhaps for each 30min in ready mode total engine running time around 8 min. This ready mode thing was a lockdown solution and not something that you have to do if you use the car on daily basis. 

Exactly, it’s not about engine running or vehicle running it’s about the time the traction Battery is connected to the 12v Battery and those runs are fine.  You shouldn’t be put off buying one, it’s a fine car and utterly reliable.   

[Mojo1010]

It's very low mileage, consider a recent Aygo auto. 

[bathtub tom]

10 hours ago, MaDProFF said:

I am just about to buy a new GR Yaris Hybrid, for my Girlfriend

 

I'm prepared to have a s*x change!

[CPN]

14 hours ago, Bernard Foy said:

Similar mileage to mine, and I’ve never had any battery trouble with my last three Yaris hybrids. 

Ditto for me. 

[Mojo1010]

4 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

I'm prepared to have a s*x change!

Cheapskate 😄

[FROSTYBALLS]

I do find it quite bemusing that we have recommendations, not just in this topic, advising owners who do a low mileage to go for a used, larger car, or a smaller new car, etc, etc.

It's people's choice as to what car they buy, whether it is new, used, large or small, and there may be other factors (health conditions, access, garage size, etc) which affect their buying decisions as well as the fact they may just like the car they have bought or are purchasing.

 

[MaDProFF]

16 hours ago, Cyker said:

I think if it's going to be used so little you'd likely need a charger to keep the battery topped to save wasting fuel just to charge it.

TBH I don't see the point of buying such an expensive new car for such little mileage; Sure it's super economical, but you can get a much nicer/more luxurious used cars that cost much less and even if it's half as efficient you'll still have spent significantly less.

In fact, for such short journeys, an EV might be a better choice, especially if you can charge it at home. Something like an Ioniq or Kona Electric can be had used for half the cost of a Yaris Mk4 last time I looked.

Thanks for reply, do not really get your logic, but major factor is She does not like large cars, she has ahd a yaris T sport before, and really likes the Yaris, her last car from new is 8 years old, an Adam S, and We intend this one to last the same amount of time, as for full Electric, it would be very expensive to put home charging in for her, and if you know anything about Electric cars, at present it is only cost worthy to have home charging. The Reason for hybrid is to warm the car up in the winter before driving.

[MaDProFF]

9 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

It's very low mileage, consider a recent Aygo auto. 

Hi,,, have looked at aygo, nice little car, to small and too slow, and would prefer a Yaris, she did like the Yaris Cross, until you look at the front 😞

[MaDProFF]

Thanks for all the replies, It has sort of eased my worry a little, need to look into it a little more, she does prefer the GR, but annoying how they do the extras now days I must admit, no heated seats or heated steering wheel etc. (seats can be added as a 3rd party apparently)

 

Reason I have originally posted, was a friend who is in the AA said there was quite a few call outs for flat 12v Battery for yaris hybrids, but it is just not a yaris problem it is many self charging hybrids that do low milage, and not used for weeks at a time.

[Cyker]

With the Yaris, the 12v thing is mainly down to a combination of a below-average capacity Battery, relatively high parasitic/off-line draw, and the DC-DC converter not shoving enough current into it quickly enough, but if the journey takes a long time, even if it's short, it should be okay - As others have said, it's the time the car is on that is the key, not the speed/distance it goes.

re. my 'logic', it depends on the reasons for buying the car - If it's for economic reasons, it's hard to recommend as with such low mileage you'll never make it back over a cheaper less efficient car.

If it's just because she likes it then fair enough (And it does look good; I dare say out of all the current Toyotas it's the best looking one, aside from maybe the GR86!  Not that I'm biased or anything )

The car has a lot to offer - It pulls strongly, is incredibly responsive and very punchy and all the stiffening and suspension improvements make it a joy to drive. Personally I think it's the best small(-ish) car on the market right now, and with a lot of manufacturers pulling out of that segment I'm glad Toyota still put the effort in.

But still, it does have its downsides and I think anyone looking at a new car needs to have all the facts - Good and bad - so they don't buy it only to find something later that spoils it.

[Bernard Foy]

Problems may arise but mainly because of the last part of the last sentence in your post. (and not used for weeks at a time).👏👏.

[Gray86]

If you have a driveway or a garage a CTEC MXS 5.0 Battery charger would be a worthwhile acquisition (£70ish). This will be useful for EVs in future as well as Yaris as they all have tiny 12v batteries. 
 

With the CTEC I charge my corolla (probably excessively) once a month in summer and  every couple of weeks in winter. It takes only a few hours to charge, and 2mins to clip the cables on & plug in. Never had any issues and my car is used very infrequently in the week, and sometimes weekends too. 

[Pumatron]

11 hours ago, Gray86 said:

If you have a driveway or a garage a CTEC MXS 5.0 battery charger would be a worthwhile acquisition (£70ish). This will be useful for EVs in future as well as Yaris as they all have tiny 12v batteries. 

This.

I have charging my EV’s and the Yaris since owning them.

I got a dedicated socket fitted near the drive and have a quick adapter lead fitted on the Yaris because of the Battery location under the seat.

Makes this inconvenience a lot less inconvenient!

My Yaris does around 2000 miles a year, and I now charge around once a month (now that the Battery is over a year old), which is basically in between its low use.

My Aygo X which I concur is a bit slow and wheezy is used a bit more and has a much larger Battery so I don’t bother with that one.

I have to admit, I don’t need two cars, both get very little use, but owning my own car is my last luxury in the costly times we live in, and I ain’t letting go until I really have to!

[Roy124]

Lewis, good plan, but one suggestion. Check the Battery voltage before you charge the Battery.  If the pre-charge voltage is a consistent value, say 12.1v (just as an example figure) carry on. 

Say the voltage one time is lower, say 11.9, then do a voltage check say 3 weeks after the previous charge.  

This will help confirm and establish the best recharge frequency. 

[MaDProFF]

Again Thanks for replies.

Not too sure My Girlfriend would want to start messing around with leads and charging etc. Battery under the seat a little annoying too, but one of the things I will do, is find a bigger capacity Battery, assuming there is one and it fits, she does do longer journeys in a month, but as I said the car is used at least 6 days a week on average.

Is also annoying they have lost the HUD 😞 and it seems some of the cars that go to Europe have heated seats, and heated steering wheel.

I have also heard about the gearbox under heavy load, seems like the clutch is slipping, so the revs creep up quicker than the speed, is this true?

[TonyHSD]

4 minutes ago, MaDProFF said:

Again Thanks for replies.

Not too sure My Girlfriend would want to start messing around with leads and charging etc. Battery under the seat a little annoying too, but one of the things I will do, is find a bigger capacity battery, assuming there is one and it fits, she does do longer journeys in a month, but as I said the car is used at least 6 days a week on average.

Is also annoying they have lost the HUD 😞 and it seems some of the cars that go to Europe have heated seats, and heated steering wheel.

I have also heard about the gearbox under heavy load, seems like the clutch is slipping, so the revs creep up quicker than the speed, is this true?

Hi, 

I will highly recommend to book an extended test drive or hire a similar car like Yaris mk4 or Corolla 1.8 hybrids and drive them for a few days along your usual way to see if you like them. Toyota hybrids drives a bit  different from all other cars petrol or diesel and also different from any other automatic., they are very close to full electric cars as feel , acceleration and efficiency but at certain times they can be a bit noisy and felt underpowered similar to cvt automatic. Of course all that it’s not all the time and also can be minimised with different throttle use, when the car starts to whine about, pedal to the metal and the car will fly away with ease and less noise. Try one and you will either love or hate. I love mine and won’t change for anything else except fully electric car. 👍

[Hybrid21]

Yes the revs do creep up quicker than the speed, it's one of the quirks of the eCVT gearbox.

It certainly does feel like a slipping clutch and takes a bit of time to get used to and feel happy about it.

I would recommend a decent test drive to see if your girlfriend would be happy with it 👍

[Roy124]

Mad, it has a clutch? 

Anyway, bigger Battery?  Pretty sure you could get a larger Battery but there is discussion here that it is only a palliative not a solution. 

An analogy might be your washer bottle.  It has an 8 pint capacity.  On every journey you use a pint and top up with a pint every second journey.  It runs dry. 

You buy a 10 pint bottle and again only top up every second trip.  However before each longer trip you fill to capacity.  You still create a deficit but you might just do top ups in time. 

The same thing will happen with the Battery recharge with your very short trips and occasionally longer ones.  With either size battery you may never have a problem but then again you might. 

Fit the bigger battery, let us know how you get on. 

[Yugguy1970]

Here's an anecdotal bit of evidence.

In our 21 Yaris, when I wanted to move it in ev mode, even when I turned off the AC unit, the engine always started.  Whereas in the Rav it didn't.

Now in our 23 Yaris, I can move it in Ev and the engine doesn't start.

I'm convinced there was a batch of lower quality batteries fitted a few years back.

[anchorman]

51 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Here's an anecdotal bit of evidence.

In our 21 Yaris, when I wanted to move it in ev mode, even when I turned off the AC unit, the engine always started.  Whereas in the Rav it didn't.

Now in our 23 Yaris, I can move it in Ev and the engine doesn't start.

I'm convinced there was a batch of lower quality batteries fitted a few years back.

Bit of a conspiracy theory there Guy.  The engine running is determined by the inverter dependent on traction Battery and 12V Battery voltage as well as ambient temp and other engine demands.  You’d need very carefully monitored conditions to make comparisons.  There’s lots of these things running round on the original Battery with no problems.  Our forum attracts the problems by nature.   It’s not the batteries, it’s what owners are unwittingly doing to them.  Junk in - junk out.  

[MaDProFF]

Well the logical easy solution would to put in an upgraded 12 volt Battery, that would cut the issues down by a huge percentage, so all you have to do is look at the 12v Battery in both cars, and see if later one has a bigger more powerful Battery. That said I have just looked into Batteries, unbelievable that there is not an AGM one available, let alone a Lithium, in that size, (real odd size though) and the best one is only like 10% more powerful, on the plus side they are really cheap.