Caravan towing with RAV4 ?

[Hybrid21]

We have been thinking about buying a medium size caravan, but have been reading that the RAV4 Hybrid does not perform well towing, mainly due to the eCVT gearbox.

Basically the engine just revs trying to find the best power output for the load and never really settles down as it normally does when not towing. When I think about it I've never seen many with towbars fitted ?

Anyone had experience of towing with their Hybrid ? Comments appreciated.

[RUToyota]

Toyota wil have defined the towing limits of your vehicle.

CVT woudn't be my choice for towing but no doubt peeps have and do...and I guess it's all about the weight you are wanting to tow.?..

[Hybrid21]

Probably about 1400kgs Neil, apparently the Audi/VW DSG system for towing 🙂

[Flatcoat]

From someone who actually tows with a RAV4.5 PHEV…… to put the rubbish replies above to one side the RAV does not have a DSG gearbox….. the towing weight limits are easily found on the Toyota website however they are: HEV 2wd is 750kg; 4wd 1650kg and PHEV is 1500kg. Nose weight limit for all is 70kg. We have towed a 1550kg van (yes, it is perfectly legal and compliant with Toyotas spec) with our PHEV to Austria, Scotland, Cornwall and elsewhere in the 16 months since we bought it. Economy and performance is superb and as good as any previous diesel towcar. 

[1928KH]

I can second Flatcoat's reply above.

Our caravan is somewhat smaller than Adrain's, it's a Swift Challenger Sport - max. weight somewhere around 1400kg.

I've towed caravans with all sorts of cars over the years and I was a little anxious that the RAV4 (HEV AWD) may be a little lacking -I need not have worried, it's extremely capable.

Mpg varies very much depending how fast you want to travel, from about 26mpg up to 30+, which is virtually identical to the Skoda Yeti 2.0tdi we previously used.

The engine does rev when accelerating, or hill-climbing, rather more than without the caravan, but then engine is hauling a vastly increased weight. It settles down to a subdued hum when cruising.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the RAV4 (HEV or PHEV) as a tow-car.

GDB

[John Allen]

I can "3rd" Flatcoats reply as an experienced caravan tower. I put a post on this forum a while back with lots of info about towing with a Rav4.5 Hybrid. Suggest you read it.  I previously towed with a Rav 4.4 2.2 diesel automatic and can categorically say towing with the Hybrid is a much more pleasant experience.

[Marcusthehat]

I have towed with the 2021 HEV, being a heavy twin axle cage sided trailer, possibly not much shy of 900kg empty,  tramped full of bushes, unsure of the weight but educated guessing perhaps about 1300/1400Kg ish all up. And per the stats, good for a legal 1600kg.

Quite effortless performance, including up the rather testing climb back out of Belfast on the M2.. No excess revving whatsoever. But I drive smooth.

And very respectable fuel economy. I seem to recall 30+ mpg over the 100 mile round trip, empty going and full back. Sitting at 45 to 50mph. Cos we are retired and no need to rush.

A fine tow car, and that is compared to a few diesels  that I have had experience with..

Marcus

 

 

 

[Hybrid21]

17 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

From someone who actually tows with a RAV4.5 PHEV…… to put the rubbish replies above to one side the RAV does not have a DSG gearbox….. the towing weight limits are easily found on the Toyota website however they are: HEV 2wd is 750kg; 4wd 1650kg and PHEV is 1500kg. Nose weight limit for all is 70kg. We have towed a 1550kg van (yes, it is perfectly legal and compliant with Toyotas spec) with our PHEV to Austria, Scotland, Cornwall and elsewhere in the 16 months since we bought it. Economy and performance is superb and as good as any previous diesel towcar. 

Sorry Adrian it should have read

" Probably about 1400kgs Neil, apparently the Audi/VW DSG system is best for towing 🙂 "

it's not the towing weight that concerns me, it's the eCVT gearbox and engine revs under towing conditions.

[philip42h]

42 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

... it's the eCVT gearbox and engine revs under towing conditions.

I don't tow ... but we do have a good understanding of the eCVT gearbox. If I drive up a hill - we have some of those in Wales - the ICE runs at the most effective revs for the job in hand, and that's way higher than my previous diesel (automatic) would have and that in turn was higher than I would have chosen for an equivalent diesel manual. To get efficient power and torque out of our hybrid systems the engine will rev a bit!

And that seems to be a problem for folk who aren't used to the eCVT system - and they will most likely 'complain' about it whether or not they are towing or carrying a load ... 😉

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Sorry Adrian it should have read

" Probably about 1400kgs Neil, apparently the Audi/VW DSG system is best for towing 🙂 "

it's not the towing weight that concerns me, it's the eCVT gearbox and engine revs under towing conditions.

As stated I have now towed many 1000’s of miles including up many hills and mountain passes. Yes, the engine revs more on some hills but not all the time. I suggest you look at the link on the thread in this section that explains the workings of the eCVT and also PetrolPeds YouTube reports especially the one that is specific to the RAV4.5 cvt system. 

[John Allen]

I agree with Flatcoat's comments above.  I would also like to add, and correct me if I am wrong, I believe the engine only ever revs to about 3000 RPM as it is only a generator for the Battery and other wheel driving electric motors.  It is not directly connected to the driving transmission.

[philip42h]

24 minutes ago, John Allen said:

correct me if I am wrong, I believe the engine only ever revs to about 3000 RPM as it is only a generator for the battery and other wheel driving electric motors.  It is not directly connected to the driving transmission.

You're wrong ... 🙂 The ICE is most definitely connected to the eCVT transmission and drives the front wheels ... 😉

[Cyker]

The ICE is indirectly connected to the wheels via MG1 - If it wants to charge, the ICE just spins MG1, but if the car wants to use the ICE to drive the wheels, it applies power to MG1 to stop it spinning and that makes the forces transfer to turn MG2/the wheels.

It's hard to explain as MG1, MG2 and the ICE are all interconnected via a planetary gear set and they all affect each other, but there are plenty of YouTube videos that attempt to explain how it all works. I'll settle for "It's simple but complicated."  

If you're driving efficiently it might not go above 3000rpm, but my Yaris definitely revs higher if I give it the beans  

 

[Flatcoat]

56 minutes ago, John Allen said:

I agree with Flatcoat's comments above.  I would also like to add, and correct me if I am wrong, I believe the engine only ever revs to about 3000 RPM as it is only a generator for the battery and other wheel driving electric motors.  It is not directly connected to the driving transmission.

Totally wrong. You are describing the Nissan xtrail system. There is enough Info on this forum alone that very clearly explains the long tried, tested and proven Toyota solution. 

[Marcusthehat]

I find it hard to believe the number of people who will not use YouTube to watch this;

Which clearly explains the inherent simplicity and mechanically unbreakable construction of the hybrid drive system as used by Toyota.

With a couple of provisios, like the sensors and software required to keep it functioning, and the possibility that continued excessive overheating will cause issues.(but again sensors will or should prevent this type of misuse)

But stunningly simply in concept, with very chunky gears and zero friction components to wear out.

I was sold on the design and engineering once I found and viewed the video above.

Simply bulletproof.

[TonyHSD]

There is one weak point only in the Toyota hybrids with power split device and it’s the damper clutch. This part however in normal circumstances will last the lifetime of the car and will never require a replacement or service. The clutch assembly looks very similar to a manual transmission clutch pack and seats between the engine and transmission and does dampen the torque transmission from the engine to the transmission. There is a friction disc and plate on this clutch which does not slip in general, however in a events of excess torque from either of the power sources this disc can indeed slip to prevent damage to any of these components.
There are also springs that dampen the vibrations from the engine.
For any reason like towing excess weight, driving like a maniac or rally, or perhaps faults with the ice like engine misfire these springs can break or the friction  disc can even slip and trigger hybrid system malfunction warning and further issues. It may also require replacement.
 It is indeed a bullet proof transmission, probably the best one ever created but it does have its limitations, something to bear in mind. 
 

[Lawnmowerman]

The first thing I checked was the e-CVT system having experience of many different manufacturer's systems in the past.

Fair to say this Epicyclic transmission is the simplest and strongest e-CVT there is (in design) and Toyota's build is simply awesome - an exemplar to all who would design a system.