Could be fine if you run out

[Bper]

Drivers have been urged to make sure they are aware of some changes to the Highway Code that are set to be implemented this month.The update includes new laws on electric cars, as well as tougher rules on using mobile phones behind the wheel. One of the changes means that more motorists could face a £100 fine if they run out of fuel while on the road.

While running out of fuel isn't an offence in itself, the police can fine drivers if they end up causing a traffic obstruction because of it. This penalty has now been extended to electric cars that run out of charge, and it can also lead to motorists having three points added to their licence.

[Cyker]

I do wonder if we'll see more of that due to people believing the GOM saying they have 20 miles of range, and the charger being 10 miles away, only for it to run out after 5 miles!

I've noticed a lot of the more experienced EV drivers I've watched will totally disregard the GOM and charger maps when they get down to 10-15% and just head to the nearest charger instead of the suggested ones, as they know from experience they won't make it to that one, despite the computer saying they will.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably PCN (Penalty Charge Notice) is quite apt.

[furtula]

Driver: runs out of fuel

UK police : oi mate, you got a licence for that?

Hard to believe this is not a sarcasm news article

 

 

[Roy124]

What actually happens when your EV or Hybrid runs out of juice? 

With my ICE I could put my foot on the clutch or select neutral and the car would coast to a stop and could be pushed. 

 

[glencrannog]

Traditionally on every car I ever owned, I've never waited till the "red light" comes on. I know it's a matter of personal choice, but I like to keep well tanked up. I'm aware weight effects the mpg, but peace of mind is more important.

[Roy124]

Brian, quite agree.  However I ran out of fuel once when I had an evening meeting 69 miles from home.  I had jumped in the car with sufficient fuel (I thought) not realising Mrs 124 had done  a 100 mile trip that day.  I realised too late and ran out just half a mile from the first petrol station. 

The second time was running out of Battery power, not HV but 12v.  I had an alternator failure and managed to press on until the 12v Battery was depleted.  

I want to know how the EV/HEV manage. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

From Lexus (be the same for Toyota):

https://support.lexus.com/s/article/If-I-run-out-of-gas-c-8141

[Roy124]

Frosty, that is the advice.  What I want to know is what happens if you are doing 60 on a motorway and it all goes quiet. 

In an ICE I expect to lose power steering and lights. 

What happens when the EV loses sufficient power to power the motor?  I suspect there may be sufficient residual power for some services including the brakes. 

With the HEV, the EV demands an ICE start and that fails, what then?  I suspect you might have half a mile or so with steering and brakes, but after that? 

[Cyker]

4 hours ago, Roy124 said:

What actually happens when your EV or Hybrid runs out of juice? 

With my ICE I could put my foot on the clutch or select neutral and the car would coast to a stop and could be pushed. 

 

It depends on the car - For EVs, teslabjorn's channel is quite educational as he runs them totally flat to test their range.

Generally the car will beep a lot at them, reduce power, and flash increasingly frantic warnings and then it'll just stop powering the motors, but the car will still roll and in theory it may be possible e.g. if you'd just managed to get to the top of a big hill, regen some power into it, but it turns out regen doesn't generate that much power in the grand scheme of things so it'd have to be a very long and steep hill to get any useful charge!

The power steering and brake booster will continue to work while the 12v Battery still has power (Which I guess is a good argument for why they keep it despite its tendency to go flat!).

 

The hybrids really really don't want you to run out of petrol; The old ones would let you drive on EV for a bit allegedly, but the new ones will shut down to protect the traction Battery (If the traction Battery loses charge it's a much bigger problem than just running out of fuel!).

I seem to recall you can coast them for a while in that state as it acts like it's in N, but once you stop and put it in Park it won't let you take it out of Park again until fuel is added. I think you do lose power steering and the brake booster won't refill so you get maybe 2-3 presses of the brake before you have to do it manually, which is a bit alarming if you've never tried to stop a car with all-discs without the brake booster - You need very strong legs!! (In fact, with ours being brake-by-wire I'm not even sure if you get brake boost in that situation anyway???)

Fortunately adding fuel by the side of the road is easier than charging!

Not experienced this first hand (And hope never to!!) so might not be 100% correct.

[Roy124]

Cyker, exactly.  Probably a very good reason Toyota have a 15% reserve in the Yaris Cross. 

Hands up everyone who has run out of fuel. 

[Cyker]

I start to get range anxiety when I get to about 100 miles left so it's never happened to me yet... but that is partly why I just couldn't live with current EVs since I'd be in a near-permanent state of range anxiety with most of them!  

[Roy124]

Cyker, of course when your only range indication was a fuel gauge that fluctuated between empty and half. 

Once, in the Lancaster, with the gauges swinging wildly, I got two red fuel low lights.  Fortunately the other two groups were fine. 😁

[Bper]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Cyker, exactly.  Probably a very good reason Toyota have a 15% reserve in the Yaris Cross. 

Hands up everyone who has run out of fuel. 

I will put my hands up Roy I ran out of petrol only once and that was the first time I decided to come off self employment and work as an employee. Well I was given a company car and one of the star cards for filling up. However as I wasn't used to the new car I thought I had enough petrol in the tank to fill up at the next petrol station. Big mistake on my part as I actually ran out the worst place possible and that was on the start of the A40 Paddington flyover in London and as the car started to die so did my stomach.

It was a nightmare waiting for the AA to come out with some petrol and the worst thing was every car that went past was inches away from the only place I could pull over.

Not only was I late for work and a meeting I had to make up a story as to not look like a plonker. Needless to say my tenure as an employee came to the same quick stop as the car did. I left the company a short period of time afterwards and went back to self employment.  Never ran out again after that.

  

[Roy124]

"Not me chief". 

We were allocated a J2 passenger van, an attempt by Morris to make a truly awful crew waggon.  We used it for very local runs and in a day 15 miles was probably tops.  Every evening the fuel was topped up. 

One day we were to use it on a 25 mile run (each way).  We set off and pedal to the metal really gave it a run, 30 to 40.  Then, ascending a long hill the engine cut out. It could not be fuel as the gauge read nearly full. 

When the rescue waggon turned up it was indeed out of fuel.  The tank was refilled to full with almost one gallon going in. 

On examination it was found that the fuel tank was totally collapsed.  The vent was blocked and the vacuum created by the fuel pump crushed the tank. 

Don't believe the gauges. 

[Mojo1010]

Never ran out myself, refuse to! Many years ago had a medium size car with a larger boot than my Yaris, had 4 litres in a can for emergency, though never ran out of fuel even with that. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:12 PM, Roy124 said:

Cyker, exactly.  Probably a very good reason Toyota have a 15% reserve in the Yaris Cross. 

Hands up everyone who has run out of fuel. 

Yes Roy,hands up here.

But only once when I was young and daft, instead of being old and daft.

Then bought a 5 gallon jerry can from a local army surplus store for 12/6 , Wakefields if you remember them.

Which was handy on a Sunday night taking my then wife out in the Anglia when it ran out.

The fuel gauge did not work for a start, sender I think, the clutch packed up,  then Battery went dead.

Now I knew I could crank the engine in first gear and drive home with no clutch, but that was a bit tricky with a dead Battery.

So I asked some random drunk fellas to push the car until I could bump start the engine , and rammed the gear lever into second.

It got us home, out in the sticks in those days.

She forgave me temporarily, as no long walk home, but the long term damage was done before I learned to buy cars with something Japanese written on either end of them.

[Roy124]

13 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

Never ran out myself, refuse to! Many years ago had a medium size car with a larger boot than my Yaris, had 4 litres in a can for emergency, though never ran out of fuel even with that. 

Ah, but that is the spare wheel syndrome.  Never need it until....... 

[Roy124]

12 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Yes Roy,hands up here.

But only once when I was young and daft, instead of being old and daft.

👍

Then bought a 5 gallon jerry can from a local army surplus store for 12/6

And £1/3/9 to fill it. 

Which was handy on a Sunday night taking my then wife out in the Anglia when it ran out.

Tiny tank, used to last about 5 hours

The fuel gauge did not work for a start, sender I think, the clutch packed up,  then battery went dead.

✔️

Now I knew I could crank the engine in first gear and drive home with no clutch, but that was a bit tricky with a dead battery.

I think mine had a handle 

 buy cars with something Japanese written on either end of them.

I bought Swedish as my old man said Japan cheap but could not make socket threads 😁

He also told me not to buy French 

 

[Mojo1010]

Spare wheel is different as one never know when a puncture may occur. Space saver, puncture repair kit & breakdown service, that's sorted. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Back in the early 1980's had a manager in his 30's who was hen pecked and she was tight with money. His wife gave him a small amount of 'pocket money' each day.

Each day he used to go home for lunch in his Mini.

One day he started out for home, and came back on foot 10 minutes later as he'd run out of petrol. Lent him my full 5 litre can from my boot, and off he went. 

Had to ask his wife for extra money so he could partially fill his tank, fill my can back up and return it - though I didn't get it back for a couple of days.

Strangely the marriage didn't last, as he traded her in for a younger model (16).

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Mojo1010 said:

Spare wheel is different as one never know when a puncture may occur. Space saver, puncture repair kit & breakdown service, that's sorted. 

My point about fuel is the  same as a puncture.  You may be well aware of a low fuel stare and intend to refuel the next day or next filling station. 

Suddenly events conspire to thwart your plans and range anxiety kicks in.  I had 'adequate' fuel but an unplanned journey immediately before the trip burnt an extra gallon. 

As the journey progressed, and the evening wore on, the fuel low light came on.  We were on a new road that seemed to go on for miles and no filling stations or service areas ahead. 

The choice was press on for another 20 miles or divert off in to a strange town to find some fuel.  After 2 abortive diversions that 20 miles was nerve wracking. 

[Cyker]

That's partly why I always refuel around 100 miles left - I figure, barring some sort of apocalyptic zombie invasion, there should be no possible way for me to not make it to a petrol station or 5 with 100 miles of range left!!  

 

[Mojo1010]

With fuel it's in my control. Puncture through nail/screw are outside of my control. Sometimes run below the empty line, handy having 2 petrol stations within a few hundred metres from me, though not the best of prices. 

[Big_D]

I've run out of fuel twice in my life. On both occasions the engine cut out as I rolled into the petrol station and I managed to coast to the pump. Talk about good luck.

Perhaps I'm odd. I usually refuel when I get to half a tank. This way I only need to put in about 15-20 litres and it seems as though my fillups are quite cheap. My last fill up was 15.52 litres and cost £22.02 (at £1.419 per litre).