Non electronic handbrake option on mark 3 Avensis

[cogstoy]

Does anyone know if the mark 3 post 2008/09 Avensis was available without an electronic handbrake, just the old style cable sort as the mark two had?

 

[Konrad C]

As far as I know, there is no manual old style cable handbrake option of the Mark 3, T27 Avensis. There are a number of issues to overcome to retrofit a manual parking brake. The first is where to fit the handbrake lever or foot lever? The parking brake electronics are integrated with other systems, so could cause faults and warnings. The handbrake light in the dash will not work, so will need some clever wiring.  Basically a manual system has to be designed and made. Then will it meet type approval, plus will it be allowed to pass the MOT and since it is a major modification, insurance will need to know!

I have owned my 2009 TR Tourer since 2015, and any problem with the EPB was caused by external factors. All were solved without having to replace the main parking brake unit. Even recently, I have read about owners having issues relating to the parking brake, taking it to the main dealer who either suggested the unit be replaced or actually replace the unit and not fixed the issue! Those that looked for different options for fix, found the fault was something like seized calipers, incorrectly fitted rear brakes, other systems triggering the parking brake warning light, and in my case a poorly connected gear position sensor after a clutch replacement. Diesel cars get the warning with EGR problems. A weak Battery can trigger a parking brake warning.
I also have been careful to avoid fords and deep puddles, and when using my jet wash (once in a while) avoid aiming at the unit. The wrong type of and use diagnostics can also cause problems, like resetting parking brake the after brake pads/disc replacement. I have been there and you don't need diagnostics after a brake replacement. Who has access to that level of diagnostics for a general maintenance job?

Yes the parking brake unit can fail, but confirm the cause before going to the expense of replacement.  

[cogstoy]

Thank for that, it's come time to replace my MK2, just to rotten to save know. Been a good car and I wanted another but finding a mk 2 that isn't rotting out is hard going. The electronic brake is the only reason I won't buy a mk 3, I simply hate the things. 

A friend left his house one morning to find his Volvo 50 had released its handbrake over night,it  rolled down his drive went through this garage door and into the MGB he had spent three years restoring and only just finished. It wrote off the Volvo and the MG as well as causing structural damage to the garage. Needless to say they car he bought was a Kia with a manual handbrake.

[FROSTYBALLS]

19 minutes ago, cogstoy said:

A friend left his house one morning to find his Volvo 50 had released its handbrake over night,it  rolled down his drive went through this garage door and into the MGB he had spent three years restoring and only just finished. It wrote off the Volvo and the MG as well as causing structural damage to the garage.

Presumably they hadn't left the car in gear when they parked .....

[cogstoy]

12 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Presumably they hadn't left the car in gear when they parked .....

No, amazingly they expect the handbrake to do the job it was intended to do.

[yossarian247]

1 hour ago, cogstoy said:

Thank for that, it's come time to replace my MK2, just to rotten to save know. Been a good car and I wanted another but finding a mk 2 that isn't rotting out is hard going. The electronic brake is the only reason I won't buy a mk 3, I simply hate the things. 

A friend left his house one morning to find his Volvo 50 had released its handbrake over night,it  rolled down his drive went through this garage door and into the MGB he had spent three years restoring and only just finished. It wrote off the Volvo and the MG as well as causing structural damage to the garage. Needless to say they car he bought was a Kia with a manual handbrake.

I've known a few cars to roll away like that over the years and they all had manual handbrakes. The usual reason is the brake discs cooling down and contracting slightly. I never trust the handbrake alone to hold any car, either manual or electronic. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, cogstoy said:

No, amazingly they expect the handbrake to do the job it was intended to do.

However, obviously it didn't and advice has always been to leave a car in gear when parking on any slope. Not rocket science.

[cogstoy]

25 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

However, obviously it didn't and advice has always been to leave a car in gear when parking on any slope. Not rocket science.

No not rocket science, just very poor engineering. If it was rocket science NASA would have to fit there rockets with blue touch paper to lite with a match just incase the ignition systems didn't work, ha, ha!.

You shouldn't have to leave a car in gear the "Parking brake" should be able to do its job properly. 

Leaving a car in gear is dangerous, how many people, despite being taught otherwise, bother to check the car is in neutral before staring the engine. I always do but my wife seldom does. Poor practice I know and I tell her so but you only have to do it once and there could be an accident.

In my book if you build something to do a job, it should do it. What next, having to put a cover over your car incase the windows decide to put themselves down, mind you I'm old enough to remember the Renault that use to do that.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The vast majority of modern cars require one to depress the clutch and some also the brake pedal before starting a car, whether or not the car is in neutral.

Aside from that the Highway Code has for years advised drivers to park in gear when parking on a slope - doing otherwise is just laziness.

Back to the topic subject.

 

[Cyker]

My instructor taught me to always steer into the kerb slightly and to put it 1st gear when parking on a slope. Saved me once as I came back and found the handbrake cable had snapped in my Fiesta!

He also left the car in first and when we swapped seats I started the car without checking it was in neutral and it immediately stalled. He laughed and said, now you'll remember, and he was right! Well, not so much now since the Yaris hybrid doesn't have a 1st gear. Or a gear stick. Or, technically, a gearbox for that matter.

The EPB has been less of a pain than I thought it would, mainly because I don't use it - They finally made it activate automatically when you put the mode selector into Park, which makes so much sense I don't understand why everybody didn't do this in the first place.

The newer ones are supposedly much more reliable than the original ones too - I would assume in typical Toyota fashion they've been continuously improving it.

I can understand not wanting it with a manual tho' - I was really good at hill starts as I could transfer the load from the handbrake to the clutch very smoothly, but that would be nearly impossible with an EPB because it's so slow, has quite unpredictable timing on its disengagement, and you can't gradually disengage it like you can with a handbrake - It's either screwed in or screwed out.

I think the EPB only works with mine because it is a hybrid and they 'synergize', for want of a less marketdroid term. EPBs definitely go with automatics better than they do with manuals; Clutch and Handbrake for liiiffeee!

 

[cogstoy]

I wondered how you did a hill start with EPB I guessed it was some sort of automatic thing. 

[Cyker]

In mine, if you try and accelerate with the EPB engage, the car will disengage it but it will drag on the brakes for a moment as it's so slow to unwind.