M20A-FXS oil consumption.

[Søren Hansen]

Hi all. 

I've had a Corolla cross Hybrid since February, the car is from September 22. 

 

It has now driven 9400 km. And I noticed the oil level has dropped a bit. 

I know you guys don't have the cross yet..but I know the same engine is used in the corolla and many other models. 

So my question is. Any one of you guys knows if the M20A-FXS engine has a tendency to oil consumption? 

Thanks.

Kindly. 

Søren

Denmark. 

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

how much has it dropped in comparison to when new? How do you measure its also important, on hot engine readings can be slightly different in comparison to cold, but this should not be by much , perhaps 5mm or less on the dipstick. I am not aware of oil consumption on any later hybrids including your engine, how’s some oil consumption is normal due to an oil evaporation, but again it should be minimal to no consumption at all.
Double check oil mark on the dipstick on level ground, check on cold before start the engine and do not wipe the dipstick, take a note and picture, then check again after you complete a drive and parked the car at flat place , wait 5 min after switch off the car and read dipstick after you take it out, wipe clean and reinsert. Sometimes it’s a bit tricky to read oil level because of how the oil stick to the dipstick. 👍

[Cyker]

That is a bit strange; Are you checking when stone cold or when warm?

Temperature will affect it slightly, and according the manual the oil level should be on the top dot when it's warm so if it's below it when cold that's probably okay.

I usually check mine about 10 minutes after I've stopped (So it's still warm but has had a chance to drain back to the sump. Also so the engine doesn't burn me, because some idiot thought to put the bonnet prop *over the very hot engine*!! It's an unusual mistake for Toyota, who are usually very good at their attention to detail... I still wonder why they changed it from how it was in every previous Yaris!)

 

My Yaris has its smaller brother, the M15A-FXE, and as far as I can tell it's not used any oil despite it being driven a lot (Nearly at 30,000 miles!  ) and seeing the redline on occasion   

 

 

[Søren Hansen]

Well. 

I would say it has dropped 4-5 mm. It's a bit higher in one side of the stick then the other. 

I know that 4-5 mm on the stick is a pretty small amount of oil. And I'm not worried yet. But I will keep an eye on it. 😊

In 3 weeks it will be at the dealer for its first service(15.000 km) I will check it before to see if it drops any more. 

I actually have a theory why it might read lower. I'm pretty sure I have turned the dipstick 180 degrees. And it's like the twist in the stick makes it seat a bit difficult in the tube. So now I've put a small black dot on the stick grip so I can place it the same way every time. 

[Søren Hansen]

15 minutes ago, Cyker said:

That is a bit strange; Are you checking when stone cold or when warm?

Temperature will affect it slightly, and according the manual the oil level should be on the top dot when it's warm so if it's below it when cold that's probably okay.

I usually check mine about 10 minutes after I've stopped (So it's still warm but has had a chance to drain back to the sump. Also so the engine doesn't burn me, because some idiot thought to put the bonnet prop *over the very hot engine*!! It's an unusual mistake for Toyota, who are usually very good at their attention to detail... I still wonder why they changed it from how it was in every previous Yaris!)

 

My Yaris has its smaller brother, the M15A-FXE, and as far as I can tell it's not used any oil despite it being driven a lot (Nearly at 30,000 miles!  ) and seeing the redline on occasion   

 

 

I always check it cold in the morning before driving. It's easier to read that way😊 my old auris 1.6 valve matic never used any oil between service. So this it new to me. 

Maybe it's just a bad reading or uneven ground. 

[Gray86]

1 hour ago, Søren Hansen said:

I always check it cold in the morning before driving. It's easier to read that way😊 my old auris 1.6 valve matic never used any oil between service. So this it new to me. 

Maybe it's just a bad reading or uneven ground. 

It’s unusual for these to burn oil, however how it’s run in can be a factor. I did 400 gentle miles then started to explore the revs & performance a bit more.

 

hopefully your consumption will settle down a bit over time 

[Søren Hansen]

8 minutes ago, Gray86 said:

It’s unusual for these to burn oil, however how it’s run in can be a factor. I did 400 gentle miles then started to explore the revs & performance a bit more.

 

hopefully your consumption will settle down a bit over time 

I can't say how the car was driven from new. Because it was a salesman at the dealer who had it as a company car for the first 5000 km. That is a pretty common rutine here in Denmark because the dealers gets a tax advantage. 

But I can say for sure it didn't use a drop the first 9000 km. 

[Gray86]

Just now, Søren Hansen said:

I can't say how the car was driven from new. Because it was a salesman at the dealer who had it as a company car for the first 5000 km. That is a pretty common rutine here in Denmark because the dealers gets a tax advantage. 

But I can say for sure it didn't use a drop the first 9000 km. 

I’d suggest mentioning it at the service and monitor after the oil change. There will be a specification for oil usage (perhaps 1L per 2000km or something similar)

[Søren Hansen]

3 minutes ago, Gray86 said:

I’d suggest mentioning it at the service and monitor after the oil change. There will be a specification for oil usage (perhaps 1L per 2000km or something similar)

I will. 

I believe the amount used is 0,15-0,20 litres max. Probably less. 

[AisinW]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:14 PM, Søren Hansen said:

I will. 

I believe the amount used is 0,15-0,20 litres max. Probably less. 

If you are sure there is no leak and it indeed consumes oil, you should do 5k miles/6 months oil change interval.  You can do it on your own in between Toyota dealership maintenance and skip filter change. We can get high quality oil 0W-20 but cheap enough like Vauxhaul, VW, or Mannol 7722 if you want to save some money. Otherwise, you can do oilchange in any mechanic/shop who has decent price or allowing us bringing our own oil.  The viscousity at 100C are so close between 0w-16 and 0w-20 and if you notice, all Toyota Turbo engines still use 0W-20 not 0W-16 for pretty clear reason.   Thinner oil like 0W-8 increase efficiency, probably 0.1 or 0.15 % more than 0W-20 but improvements on MPG is always good for propaganda.   0W-20 and 0W-16 had been used for more than 15 years and they work well for engines that are designed for thinner oil. Other brands such as Honda, Mazda, Hyundai/KIA, Ford, GM also used 0W-20 for many years.

[Søren Hansen]

12 hours ago, AisinW said:

If you are sure there is no leak and it indeed consumes oil, you should do 5k miles/6 months oil change interval.  You can do it on your own in between Toyota dealership maintenance and skip filter change. We can get high quality oil 0W-20 but cheap enough like Vauxhaul, VW, or Mannol 7722 if you want to save some money. Otherwise, you can do oilchange in any mechanic/shop who has decent price or allowing us bringing our own oil.  The viscousity at 100C are so close between 0w-16 and 0w-20 and if you notice, all Toyota Turbo engines still use 0W-20 not 0W-16 for pretty clear reason.   Thinner oil like 0W-8 increase efficiency, probably 0.1 or 0.15 % more than 0W-20 but improvements on MPG is always good for propaganda.   0W-20 and 0W-16 had been used for more than 15 years and they work well for engines that are designed for thinner oil. Other brands such as Honda, Mazda, Hyundai/KIA, Ford, GM also used 0W-20 for many years.

Well.. i see your point. But I really don't have a problem adding half a litre between service if I have to. 

[AisinW]

Fortunately newer oil has much less sulphur/ZDDP and not as poisonous to catalytic converter.  The problem with oil consumption is it always gets worse and often non linear. If we can reduce or prevent as early as possible, then we actually save much more money by doing 5-7k miles interval than at the end/150k miles overhaul engine for £8000 or more. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota's definition of high oil consumption has previously been 'worse than 0.5 litres per 621 miles/1,000km'. Presumably this still stands.

[Søren Hansen]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Toyota's definition of high oil consumption has previously been 'worse than 0.5 litres per 621 miles/1,000km'. Presumably this still stands.

Luckily it's far from that kind of consumption. 

[Cyker]

TBH the official definition is a bit unfair IMHO - Even my Mk2, which started using a litre a month before I got rid of it (That would have been 12 extra litres of oil a year - It only holds 3 or 4 litres!!), was still below the threshold!

 

[AisinW]

My Nissan altima 02 consumed engine oil, 0.3L/ 1000 miles at 30k miles and got worse 0.5L/1000 miles right around 78k miles. It is already out of 6y/60k miles warranty but fortunately Federal Emission Law warranty cover the cat replacement. 8y/80k miles for ECU and all emission system. The head gasket leaks 5k mileas earlier, but I am not sure if coolant also poison the cat converter. We still use API ILSAC 4 standard at that time with high ZDDP contents. 

I switch to full synthetic ILSAC 5 0w-30 or 5w-30 after head gasket replacement and new cat. Since then no issue intil I sold it at 130k miles. The oil consumption was still the same 0.5L/1k miles. I believe it was just engine wear, not cylinder control rings caked up and plugged oil return holes like 1998-2002 corolla 1.8L or 2007-2010 2.4L.

I top it up every 1k miles but fortunately oil was cheap back then, $2-5 per liter.  

[nielshm]

I don't know if my engine drops 5 mm. in oil level. If the dipstick is coveret in oil within 90% right before a service, I'm not worried.

My corolla has done 122.000 km. I would be more worried about changes in the color of the oil. When the engine is new, color is nearly the same through is servicelife. My oil is starting to get a more brown color right before service, wich could indicate a very light wear and tear. And it's just normal with that milage. 

[AisinW]

@nielshm which year is your Corolla?  Oil color is not a good indicator because it depends on the dye of the oil we used.  Brown and dark color is a good sign that it works and cleans the engine. 

If you change the oil on your own, do it every 5k miles if you live in cold weather, heavy trafic jam, or short trips<6 miles. Otherwise, 7k miles is the limit if you want your car consume no oil for 200k miles or more.  I had 2 cars more than 200k miles that did not consume oil over 5k miles OCI. sienna 04 V6 3.3L, and Camry 10 2.5L. I did 5k miles interval although manual said 10k miles/1 year.  The 5k miles/6 months interval really helps especially 1.5,  1.8, 2.0, and 2.5L that are prone to oil consumption after high miles with 10k miles interval. 

It is cheaper to do 5k interval than topping off 10L add on oil in 10k miles interval. At least just drain and refill it, it takes less than 10 minutes on new Corolla, we can change the filter every 10k miles.  I found Dexos1 gen 2 GM 0W-20 has good price and excellent. Standard ILSAC 6A from Mannol 10L jug is very cheap too. I used them couple time, they are fine. €40 for 10L. 

[nielshm]

1 hour ago, AisinW said:

@nielshm which year is your Corolla?  Oil color is not a good indicator because it depends on the dye of the oil we used.  Brown and dark color is a good sign that it works and cleans the engine. 

If you change the oil on your own, do it every 5k miles if you live in cold weather, heavy trafic jam, or short trips<6 miles. Otherwise, 7k miles is the limit if you want your car consume no oil for 200k miles or more.  I had 2 cars more than 200k miles that did not consume oil over 5k miles OCI. sienna 04 V6 3.3L, and Camry 10 2.5L. I did 5k miles interval although manual said 10k miles/1 year.  The 5k miles/6 months interval really helps especially 1.5,  1.8, 2.0, and 2.5L that are prone to oil consumption after high miles with 10k miles interval. 

It is cheaper to do 5k interval than topping off 10L add on oil in 10k miles interval. At least just drain and refill it, it takes less than 10 minutes on new Corolla, we can change the filter every 10k miles.  I found Dexos1 gen 2 GM 0W-20 has good price and excellent. Standard ILSAC 6A from Mannol 10L jug is very cheap too. I used them couple time, they are fine. €40 for 10L. 

My Corolla is november 2019. Every service has been done by the same Toyota dealer, every 15.000 km.

The first 2-3 oil changes was with 0w20, all the rest has been with 0w16. 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, nielshm said:

My Corolla is november 2019. Every service has been done by the same Toyota dealer, every 15.000 km.

The first 2-3 oil changes was with 0w20, all the rest has been with 0w16. 

Time for an engine flush. STP, Wynns, are good once. 
I do flushes every second oil change and my oil generally speaking remains clear to around 5k miles and then past 6k starting to get darker. I usually replace between 8-9k miles, every two to four months, but never past 10k miles intervals. The car did not drink any oil at all up to around 120k miles but then gradually started and now the oil is like third fuel after petrol, electric and now I have oil afterburner 🚀😂👌

[Søren Hansen]

Hi 

This morning I checked the oil again. 

And apparently the oil is up where it usually is. I have come to a conclusion based on to observations.

1. Apparently the dipstick reads different if you turn it 180° I can't explain why. 

2. After a long winter I took the car for a long drive in a bit warmer weather (22°c). I also gave it some more beans then I usually doo. after that the oil has become clearer again. I assume some winter condensation, and perhaps some unburnt petrol has evaporated from the oil. The clearer oil looks a bit different on the stick. 

Hope it makes sense. 

Kindly

Søren 

[AisinW]

Winter makes the oil smell fuel too. Don't be alarmed if you see white like milkshake on the oil cap in winter. It is often from water condensation not bad head gasket.