Something interesting to read

[Niky]

https://jalopnik.com/toyota-focusing-on-hybrids-not-electric-vehicles-1850440908

[TonyHSD]

Absolutely 👍

I am with this 100% 

Battery electric cars are excellent choice for some people but mission impossible for others while hybrids can suit pretty much everyone.
I like evs a lot, even we have one in the family as lease car that we are planning to buy soon , so good it is. The problem with the evs and governments is the forced switch, similar to back then the diesels were. And interestingly many of the new ev owners are exactly the same people that used to drive and own diesels without a need to have a diesel powered cars., which are also suitable for specific use and needs. Reducing pollution and damage to the environment will not come from switching to evs entirely, even quite opposite, will cause more damage and trouble. Transport should evolve naturally with change of people’s way of travel, vehicles they use, and the power source together and gradually. While all that’s happening the infrastructure needs to change accordingly to accommodate these needs and stimulate car owners and transport companies switch to greener and cleaner way of travel. Because the chain above it’s broken the forced switch to ev and eventually a Battery gate that I am predicting to happen around 2030 will make any western country similar to Cuba and old petrol and diesel cars will dominate the streets and will pollute more than ever. Here what is next https://discovercorps.com/blog/why-is-cuba-filled-with-classic-cars/

[Cyker]

I'm in 100% agreement; The stupidest thing is, by encouraging people to buy so many brand new cars and even building new factories to build these cars instead of using existing ones, the pollution generated is going to be far in excess of what we 'save' from having EVs in the first place!

Worse yet, when there is a Battery breakthrough that allows non-pathetic ranges, all current EVs with joke ranges will become so undesirable they'll probably end up scrapped or parted unless the manufacturers offer Battery upgrades (Which will be very unlikely as they'd want you to buy a new car, and unless some sort of right to repair bill passes, the software lockouts on the OE batteries will prevent third parties from making their own unless they can be cracked or bypassed, but then that risks prosecution under the DMCA/EUCD...!)

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

I would suggest the Toyota document originates from Toyota US (toyota.com) as it concentrates on the American market. 

[Roy124]

If we lived near our children and grandchildren and had no need of a journey over 100 miles  in aggregate an EV, virtually any EV, would suit with no drawbacks. 

As one daughter lives on the German border, the other 150 away on the south coast, the MiL 75 miles the other way and a trip to the shops (north) and grandchildrens school (south) on the same day difficult.  We are clocking 1,000 miles a month so an EV wouldn't cut it. 

[Cyker]

It's the overnight charging that's the thing - If you have a short-range EV and can't charge overnight (Or otherwise while you're not using it, e.g. at work), you'd need to plan a charging stop almost every time you used it!

I couldn't cope with that - I find going to a petrol station an annoyance as it is, and that's only maybe 5 minutes if it's a self-service one! The idea of having to do something similar but for 30+ minutes and nearly every day would be highly off-putting to me.

 

[Big_D]

While EVs have their applications, the infrastructure needs improving. We definitely need to evolve as the EV gets better, and I feel that Hybrid is the better option. What about all the people who can't afford new fancy EV cars? What about the added pollution of power stations trying to churn out the additional power to charge the batteries. What about the ICE cars, with nothing wrong, that are being scrapped to be replaced by EVs. I understand that we need to cut down on pollution, but we shouldn't be forced into it. It should evolve naturally.

I was recently on a trip up to Newcastle and stopped at the motorway services. None of the EV charging points were working, with a sign to say there was a problem with the electricity supplier. What would happen if I had no Battery power to get to the next services. At least with a hybrid, I could run on fossil fuel and still get somewhere.

The next issue, is the range of the current EV. It turns a 6 hour journey into a nine hour journey while you wait for a charging point to become available and then charge you Battery. Average charge time of 30 minutes with 5 people waiting to use the charger adds up to at least a three hour wait before you are on the go again. I can fill my hybrid tank in less that 10 minutes.

[yossarian247]

I can see the 2030 UK ICE ban being pushed back. EVs are not suitable for everyone, at least not yet, and the fact that such a high proportion of our electricity is still produced by burning natural gas just makes the environmental reasoning behind EVs ridiculous.

I quite enjoy pointing out to Tesla drivers that their cars are hybrids, the difference is instead of the exhaust being attached to the underside of their car it's attached to the roof of the power station down the road 😉

[tfc]

Isn't  the EU planning to push it back also , 

[Eddie G]

Common sense from Toyota 👍 

[Big_D]

On 5/20/2023 at 2:34 PM, yossarian247 said:

I can see the 2030 UK ICE ban being pushed back. EVs are not suitable for everyone, at least not yet, and the fact that such a high proportion of our electricity is still produced by burning natural gas just makes the environmental reasoning behind EVs ridiculous.

I quite enjoy pointing out to Tesla drivers that their cars are hybrids, the difference is instead of the exhaust being attached to the underside of their car it's attached to the roof of the power station down the road 😉

Too true

[AisinW]

Toyota scale is much larger than any Chinese BEV or even Tesla.  Toyota and VW is much greener by putting the limited resources of Battery to millions of hybrid than just thousands of EV.  VW does differently because their hybrid powertrain sucks. 

Only few manufacturers know how to make reliable ICE. Chinese cars have no chance to catch up the reliability and quality of ICE so they puss more on BEV.  But it is just stupid because they got more money from the governments than the actual sales. 

[tfc]

Why would the Chinese worry about ICE when they are going to be phased out besides  their bev and ice vehicles have 7 years uk warranty.

They are putting their resources into new Battery technology and manufacturing batteries they own or finance about 80% of the world's Cobalt mines so it would make sense to ditch ICE.

[pennine_rex]

I've just returned from a trip to China and since I was there 6 years ago I was struck by the sheer number of electric cars on the road. The majority being Chinese brands, BYD, Xpeng etc. There were a fair number of Teslas too. Also lots of Corolla hybrids used mainly as taxis.

2 stroke scooters have been banned so they are all electric too. More chance of being run over now as you can't hear them coming! Electric buses were a common sight also. 

One of the workshops we visited were building a massive extrusion press for BYD. They are already bigger than Tesla and continuing to expand and quite a rate. The market share of European and Japanese car makers must be shrinking in China and I wonder what effect this will have on their operations worldwide.

[tfc]

BYD grew 211% in one year from 2021 to 2022 out selling Tesla by over 500,000 vehicles . There is 6 EV manufactures in China and 5 of them grew over 100% plus in 12 months and SAIC who own the MG Badge besides others only grew by 8% and they are China's largest car maker.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Interesting that the bus manufacturer Alexander Dennis use BYD chassis for their electric Enviro buses.

Also Yutong is making inroads into the UK bus market with their electric buses.

[AisinW]

That's exactly why we should rethink about whatever our government ignorant policy. They want to push electrification without checking how  their industry capability and dependencies deal with it.  70% of the Lithium Battery are outsources from China and they want to push killing our jobs and heavy industry without thinking further.  Yes, EV will be a disposable product that may be as cheap as Apple products at one point. However, the subsidies from our government benefits everything else except our own jobs and industry.

The USA government does much excellent jobs on balancing this Electrifications and their heavy industry.  We only can get incentive only if the BEV are manufactured or uses local/USA workers or materials/components.   No tax break for Tesla spilled out from Shanghai. That's how we should deal with Chinese invation on our jobs and industry.  It also comes as TAX CREDIT not just cash given to us. If we do not have high enough incomes, this tax credit won't effect much. 

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

To qualify, a vehicle must:

• Have a Battery capacity of at least 7 kilowatt hours
• Have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds
• Be made by a qualified manufacturer. 
  • FCVs do not need to be made by a qualified manufacturer to be eligible. See Rev. Proc. 2022-42 for more detailed guidance.
• Undergo final assembly in North America
• Meet critical mineral and Battery component requirements (as of April 18, 2023).

 

I am not sure how much more British and EU industry need to be killed even further.  MG is British name but 99.9999% chinese car.  At least Corolla is made in UK and Yaris is made in France, Ford Focus and Tesla are made in Germany. Those created jobs and social security for us.  Meanwhile Smart EV will be moved from France to China. Looks which government or industry are doing very stupid things? 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/17/cars/ev-tax-credits-2023-which-cars-climate/index.html