Yaris Cross fuel miser?

[cruiserOAP]

I've had my Cross Icon for a couple of weeks now and I'm amazed by the fuel economy.

One 30 mile round trip to a country park clocked up 103 mpg!  98 mile round trip to the Cotswolds along the Fosse Way - 83 mpg. That trip in my 1.2 tsi Seat could hit 64 mpg, which I was happy with, as I have practiced economy driving for a few years now. 

However, not so pleased when I got home and found that the thing has been tracking my every move, and was telling me that I had braked or accelerated too hard at particular spots, shown on the map. The last straw was when the beast messaged me and told me to close the door properly! (I had), so I put it into privacy mode. I may disconnect it from the telematics, as I don't have built in navigation, and sending routes to the car is the only useful feature I think.

Is anyone else disturbed by this monitoring by 'Connected Services?'

[Roy124]

. Mike, indeed but many are not. 

When browsing the Toyota website I found an item that led me to typical car journeys for my chosen model. These were typical such as a work commute, city travel, a cross country journey. 

In fact they were not typical journeys but actual live journeys by other customers at that time of year. 

Not sure if that is still true but you did give permission.  

You don't like it, then do as you say.  BTW, do you have a dash cam? 

[Cyker]

Yeah, I'm quite paranoid about this sort of thing and denied permission for them to do any of this. I'd unplug/rip the SIM out of the car if I could.

Given the regularity of data breaches, I try to minimize the amount of personal data I let out anywhere.

The problem is, it's currency - The reason the likes of Facebook, Twitter, Google, Apple, Microsoft etc. are so rich is by selling personal information in various forms.

But it's all a bit moot if this pay-per-mile BS gets passed and effectively turns the whole UK road network into an infinity toll road.

[Rhymes with Paris]

A dystopian future indeed.

I don't even give my name, address, phone number, and national insurance number to buy a coffee from a barrister.

As some seem to require

 

[Primus1]

1 hour ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

A dystopian future indeed.

I don't even give my name, address, phone number, and national insurance number to buy a coffee from a barrister.

As some seem to require

 

I doubt you’d be able to afford a coffee from a barrister 😆

[Rhymes with Paris]

9 minutes ago, Primus1 said:

I doubt you’d be able to afford a coffee from a barrister 😆

I know,£250 round here to tell you that they can't help you, never mind a choca mocha latte flat white nonsense to ease the pain.

The baristas on the other hand,as the coffee pourers style themselves,seem to be able to dispense free advice on all manner of subjects.

I bought a delonghi and sidestepped the nonsense from both of them.

 

[TonyHSD]

Same here since many years now 👌 
For the coffee lovers if you drive pass my town you can stop by and I will make you the best coffee around and some talk about cars , all payment methods accepted , but don’t worry it’s on the house 🚙☕️👌

[anchorman]

To start with, the mileages on the trip computer can be taken with a pinch of salt.  If they were regularly achievable, Toyota would be shouting off the roof tops.   Mine has just crept up into low 60s but it won’t go better that low 70s in the height of summer and then it will drop again in winter.  If you want to brag, do it by calculation then report back.  
 

As for being tracked, aye, turn it off, it’s a common snowflake trait these days that anything like that is an affront to human rights.  I think a good glue to the road is called for.  Mine is staying on.  Not long ago my mrs took it to the shop and it messaged me to say a rear window was open.  When she checked, it was by about 6mm but I thought that was useful.  Furthermore, turning it off stops you tracking it if it gets stolen or the emergency services finding you if you end up in a ditch in a remote location.  You’ll be telling me next that covid jabs contain silicone chips.  Turn it off but leave your phone on.  That doesn’t track your location at all.  

[Cyker]

Well it's all well and good boasting about being blissfully dismissive of data safety, but don't be one of those people that turns around and whines about it when they later get stung by it, when they could have done something about but intentionally chose not to; None of these big companies have a great track record for data protection. Even Toyota Japan were in the news not long ago, as well as the NHS, and Microsoft Google, Facebook et al are all regularly getting caught leaking data or getting hacked etc.

It's like anything in life - If someone thinks benefits outweigh the risks then good for them, but this isn't a pass to slate others just because they don't feel the same way. I wouldn't get any benefit in these cloud connected car services, so it would be nonsensical for me to give permission for it. I just hope they actually honour that, as there isn't any way for me to make sure.

 

For the mpg, I find my calculated averages are about 5-10% lower than displayed, but regardless Toyota aren't allowed to use those because, as it's always been, they're only allowed to use the official WLTP figures, but we know the M15A-FXE is capable of such high mpgs, not necessarily across a tank, but certainly on a trip! It's a damned good drivetrain, and a rarity in that it's genuinely efficient, not like most other 'efficient' drivetrains that require you to drive efficiently (Which, to me, suggests it's not the drivetrain that's efficient, but the driver!)

 

 

[Tel 2]

I believe the Yaris Self Driving Hybrid is a paragon of fuel efficiency that excels if driven smoothly  below 70 mph yet has excellent fuel efficiencies for high speed Motorway Journeys.

All ICE & Electric cars are @ their best in Summer & many are woeful in Winter.

Tel

[CruxisCore]

If you have a modern smartphone in your pocket, all of those things (well, not maybe how you closed the door) is tracked anyways. This just seems scarier cos it makes you aware of the fact.

I personally feel that there's no point to disable these features out of privacy reasons if you use Google or Facebook (or any Meta products) and many other similar services. If, however, you've managed to keep yourself out of those for privacy reasons, might as well disable these.

I personally like these features, I love that the car will ping my phone if I forgot to lock the doors as I got half an OCD about that. Or open windows, or car location. Some of it is less important than the others, but yeah. 

[anchorman]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

Well it's all well and good boasting about being blissfully dismissive of data safety, but don't be one of those people that turns around and whines about it when they later get stung by it, when they could have done something about but intentionally chose not to; None of these big companies have a great track record for data protection. Even Toyota Japan were in the news not long ago, as well as the NHS, and Microsoft Google, Facebook et al are all regularly getting caught leaking data or getting hacked.

 

I’m interested.  Get stung how?   They obtained your data when you bought your car.  Turning connected services off doesn’t alter that and if you’ve got a phone you’re being tracked.  Don’t cut your nose of to spite your face rather than whining.  

[tfc]

Good job you don't  live in some parts of China , they have face recognition camera's on buildings and know who you are even by walking down the road.

[bathtub tom]

10 hours ago, anchorman said:

Turn it off but leave your phone on.  That doesn’t track your location at all.  

How do you think google maps knows how busy a stretch of road is?

[anchorman]

Just now, bathtub tom said:

How do you think google maps knows how busy a stretch of road is?

It uses your smart phone.  That’s the point I was making, turning connected services off to hide your location is pointless.  

[CruxisCore]

Yeah, kinda. Of course one can argue that it might be better that only Meta and Google know everything about your whereabouts instead of Meta, Google AND Toyota, but I'm pretty sure that data is already sold a long time ago.

That said, Toyota did just recently find out they had compromised user data for the last 10 years, so I might have more trust in Google and Meta to at least hold away data breaches than I do for Toyota.

[Mojo1010]

I will find the notifications for unlock doors or open windows extremely useful as someone threw a ciggie on my seat a few months ago. Will turn off other tracking services. 

Mobile phone is to get a PAYG sim so don't register it for non tracking. 

[CPN]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

For the mpg, I find my calculated averages are about 5-10% lower than displayed,

That's similar to my findings also. When I stopped to fill up yesterday, the dash was showing 62.3mpg for that tankful. When I did the calculations neck to neck (as I always do), actual was 59.5mpg (4.7% difference)

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

but regardless Toyota aren't allowed to use those because, as it's always been, they're only allowed to use the official WLTP figures, but we know the M15A-FXE is capable of such high mpgs, not necessarily across a tank, but certainly on a trip! It's a damned good drivetrain, and a rarity in that it's genuinely efficient, not like most other 'efficient' drivetrains that require you to drive efficiently (Which, to me, suggests it's not the drivetrain that's efficient, but the driver!)

Amen to that! 😉

[Primus1]

Sadly our coffee machine broke the other day, I’d just perfected making a little heart with the froth, my mrs, however, thought I was sticking two fingers up at her….

[cruiserOAP]

On 5/30/2023 at 11:38 PM, Cyker said:

Well it's all well and good boasting about being blissfully dismissive of data safety, but don't be one of those people that turns around and whines about it when they later get stung by it, when they could have done something about but intentionally chose not to; None of these big companies have a great track record for data protection. Even Toyota Japan were in the news not long ago, as well as the NHS, and Microsoft Google, Facebook et al are all regularly getting caught leaking data or getting hacked etc.

It's like anything in life - If someone thinks benefits outweigh the risks then good for them, but this isn't a pass to slate others just because they don't feel the same way. I wouldn't get any benefit in these cloud connected car services, so it would be nonsensical for me to give permission for it. I just hope they actually honour that, as there isn't any way for me to make sure.

 

For the mpg, I find my calculated averages are about 5-10% lower than displayed, but regardless Toyota aren't allowed to use those because, as it's always been, they're only allowed to use the official WLTP figures, but we know the M15A-FXE is capable of such high mpgs, not necessarily across a tank, but certainly on a trip! It's a damned good drivetrain, and a rarity in that it's genuinely efficient, not like most other 'efficient' drivetrains that require you to drive efficiently (Which, to me, suggests it's not the drivetrain that's efficient, but the driver!)

 

 

I'm not sure about the point made about Toyota using 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 11:38 PM, Cyker said:

Well it's all well and good boasting about being blissfully dismissive of data safety, but don't be one of those people that turns around and whines about it when they later get stung by it, when they could have done something about but intentionally chose not to; None of these big companies have a great track record for data protection. Even Toyota Japan were in the news not long ago, as well as the NHS, and Microsoft Google, Facebook et al are all regularly getting caught leaking data or getting hacked etc.

It's like anything in life - If someone thinks benefits outweigh the risks then good for them, but this isn't a pass to slate others just because they don't feel the same way. I wouldn't get any benefit in these cloud connected car services, so it would be nonsensical for me to give permission for it. I just hope they actually honour that, as there isn't any way for me to make sure.

 

For the mpg, I find my calculated averages are about 5-10% lower than displayed, but regardless Toyota aren't allowed to use those because, as it's always been, they're only allowed to use the official WLTP figures, but we know the M15A-FXE is capable of such high mpgs, not necessarily across a tank, but certainly on a trip! It's a damned good drivetrain, and a rarity in that it's genuinely efficient, not like most other 'efficient' drivetrains that require you to drive efficiently (Which, to me, suggests it's not the drivetrain that's efficient, but the driver!)

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about Toyota using the WLTP figures. That refers to the method used to calculate fuel economy during a standardised test cycle, so that cars can be directly compared. The fuel economy measured by the car is a live figure calculated directly from a sensor in the fuel supply and the mileage, as far as I'm aware. The Yaris Cross is the most efficient car ever tested by What Car, measuring fuel metered against mileage during real world conditions.

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, cruiserOAP said:

I'm not sure about the point made about Toyota using 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about Toyota using the WLTP figures. That refers to the method used to calculate fuel economy during a standardised test cycle, so that cars can be directly compared. The fuel economy measured by the car is a live figure calculated directly from a sensor in the fuel supply and the mileage, as far as I'm aware. The Yaris Cross is the most efficient car ever tested by What Car, measuring fuel metered against mileage during real world conditions.

I think you missed part of the conversation; To summarize, anchs was saying that if the high fuel figures were regularly achievable, Toyota would be widely publicizing them, but I was saying the rules only allow them to quote WLTP figures, regardless of the real-world achievable figures.

That's why the Mk3 Yaris had a higher advertised MPG rating than the Mk4, despite the reverse being true, due to the Mk3 being tested under the NEDC but the Mk4 being tested under the WLTP.

It's also why they made the WLTP, as we all remember NEDC mpgs being 50-60+ but only 30-40 in the real world, although ironically they've still managed to get left behind as they now over-rate EV range by a similar amount that the NEDC over-rated mpg  

 

[Yugguy1970]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:49 PM, cruiserOAP said:

I've had my Cross Icon for a couple of weeks now and I'm amazed by the fuel economy.

One 30 mile round trip to a country park clocked up 103 mpg!  98 mile round trip to the Cotswolds along the Fosse Way - 83 mpg. That trip in my 1.2 tsi Seat could hit 64 mpg, which I was happy with, as I have practiced economy driving for a few years now. 

However, not so pleased when I got home and found that the thing has been tracking my every move, and was telling me that I had braked or accelerated too hard at particular spots, shown on the map. The last straw was when the beast messaged me and told me to close the door properly! (I had), so I put it into privacy mode. I may disconnect it from the telematics, as I don't have built in navigation, and sending routes to the car is the only useful feature I think.

Is anyone else disturbed by this monitoring by 'Connected Services?'

Not really, it just makes me laugh.  I find the radar cruise brakes and accelerates more sharply than I do, so on a journey where I have used it a lot the car ends up telling itself off.

I'd imagine they need the telematics to get your location when you use the call button in the car but I could be wrong.

I don't have location enabled on my phone and all the google apps are disabled apart from Play Services.

[cruiserOAP]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:47 PM, Yugguy1970 said:

Not really, it just makes me laugh.  I find the radar cruise brakes and accelerates more sharply than I do, so on a journey where I have used it a lot the car ends up telling itself off.

I'd imagine they need the telematics to get your location when you use the call button in the car but I could be wrong.

I don't have location enabled on my phone and all the google apps are disabled apart from Play Services.

The car has its own internet connection and GPS I think as it is still connected if there isn't a phone in the car, so it connects to Toyota's data centre who then update the phone app. 

I'm impressed with the cruise control, as it brakes the car downhill using the regen braking - more lovely Battery juice instead of brake dust! My Seat used to run away downhill, due to all VAG's work on low friction engines and drivetrains. I'm really surprised that it's running on electric so much, 71% so far. There's some very clever engineering and electronics in there.

[cruiserOAP]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:47 PM, Yugguy1970 said:

Not really, it just makes me laugh.  I find the radar cruise brakes and accelerates more sharply than I do, so on a journey where I have used it a lot the car ends up telling itself off.

I'd imagine they need the telematics to get your location when you use the call button in the car but I could be wrong.

I don't have location enabled on my phone and all the google apps are disabled apart from Play Services.

Just occurred to me - does the car brake and accelerate itself more sharply in pwr mode compared to eco when on radar cruise? I'll have to test that out on the road

[Yugguy1970]

12 hours ago, cruiserOAP said:

Just occurred to me - does the car brake and accelerate itself more sharply in pwr mode compared to eco when on radar cruise? I'll have to test that out on the road

Aye I've not tested that.  I tend to drive in normal and only use pwr if I need to overtake a tractor or something.