Woman arrested at toll bridge because she only had cash?

[Mike 2121]

Is the story true ?, apparently she missed the sign saying card only and it was a Bank holiday.

 

I don't understand why I'm the only human that keeps screaming 😱 saying, ' i don't want to be tracked and traced by the government using my card ! '

 

Why would any daft silly human welcome a totally cashless society so they can be totally controlled, tracked and traced, and every transaction seen ?, it doesn't make sense 🤷, so many sheep 🐑 Luv paying by card so they can be tracked and traced , which encourages going cashless, surely some of these sheep have one or two things to hide lol.

Soz for the rant 🙂🙂

[PCM]

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/17686151.woman-arrested-dispute-mersey-gateway-bridge-toll-fine/ ?

 

( Personally, I'm not that bothered if someone wants to track I went to the Supermarket... )

[FROSTYBALLS]

The person in question didn't pay the penalty charge notices subsequently issued. Dates back to 2018/19.

[fred88]

37 minutes ago, PCM said:

( Personally, I'm not that bothered if someone wants to track I went to the Supermarket... )

My thoughts too, same for Google.

[Cyker]

Well making it more awkward or difficult to pay is a nice little earner; They made something like 5 years worth of income on Dartford in fines in the first few months, when they removed the cash/card kiosks and made it like the ULEZ where you pre-pay or have a day to pay, away from the crossing.

They made such an embarrassingly large amount of money from the fines they did something virtually unheard of, and started giving 1st warning notices rather than going straight for the fine.

The worst thing is that crossing should be free - We paid it off in something like 2003, but to get around it they stopped calling it a 'toll', and changed the wording to a 'charge'. The kicker was, you'd expect removing the staff would make the toll cheaper - Afterall, you don't need to pay the kiosk attendants - but no it went up by 25%

I just boycott things like that now, it's the only way to be sure; Why risk getting caught out?

It's really not a good sign that fines are now a primary source of revenue for the government, rather than being a deterrent.

[AisinW]

I don't mind if the government track our movement as long as our wife do not know where we go and where we stay with. 

[Bper]

Well unfortunately I would get used to cash being confined to history. Digital currentcy will be implemented regardless of opposition by the public. Various reports have already stated that it may be brought in by a banking crash that will effect everyone over a period of 24- 48 hrs and panic will happen as no purchases can be made but the Government will make an announcement that in order to access your money you will need to use your national insurance number as your digital ID. You will then be able to pay bills and all other forms of payment but cash will no longer be available.

There is even talk that to encourage people that this is a brilliant idea everyone will be given between 5- 10 thousand pounds deposited in accounts as a sweetner. 

And do not worry about where the money will come from as it will not matter as it is digital currentcy and is just numbers on a screen.

It's funny I thought this was complete rubbish but so did I when they first talked about the London congestion charge, ULEZ, 15 minute cities. And guess what here they are.

 

 

 

 

[Roy124]

From Wiki:

Legal tender is a form of money that courts of law are required to recognize as satisfactory payment for any monetary debt.^[1] Each jurisdiction determines what is legal tender, but essentially it is anything which when offered ("tendered") in payment of a debt extinguishes the debt. There is no obligation on the creditor to accept the tendered payment, but the act of tendering the payment in legal tender discharges the debt.

Some jurisdictions allow contract law to overrule the status of legal tender, allowing (for example) merchants to specify that they will not accept cash payments.

⁼⁼⁼⁼

I guess they Dartford may fall back on contract law but it is a challenge to legal tender.  Offering legal tender discharges the debt. 

Could be interesting. 

Personally I prefer westabout to Gatwick or the Woolwich Ferry. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

I'd best start counting my sovereigns and think about trading them in for barter goods, like eggs.

I've only just got used to the decimal system, and found that florins are no longer accepted for transactions involving large purchases such as turnips and sackcloth.

 

[Konrad C]

6 hours ago, Cyker said:

Well making it more awkward or difficult to pay is a nice little earner; They made something like 5 years worth of income on Dartford in fines in the first few months, when they removed the cash/card kiosks and made it like the ULEZ where you pre-pay or have a day to pay, away from the crossing.

They made such an embarrassingly large amount of money from the fines they did something virtually unheard of, and started giving 1st warning notices rather than going straight for the fine.

The worst thing is that crossing should be free - We paid it off in something like 2003, but to get around it they stopped calling it a 'toll', and changed the wording to a 'charge'. The kicker was, you'd expect removing the staff would make the toll cheaper - Afterall, you don't need to pay the kiosk attendants - but no it went up by 25%

I just boycott things like that now, it's the only way to be sure; Why risk getting caught out?

It's really not a good sign that fines are now a primary source of revenue for the government, rather than being a deterrent.

I have a Dartford crossing account, but did have issues when I tried to register my current car a few years back. The previous owner was still registered, but I was honest enough to contact the company to get it sorted. If I was dodgy, I could have used the crossing at his expense!
As for tracking movements, I am not bothered. I do a lot of cycling and put my rides on Strava and Garmin. Another thing there are cameras everywhere. 

[Cyker]

You do have to be careful with that; There've been several cases where someone new to the system thought they pre-paid for their ULEZ, but still got a fine because they hadn't done it right, and despite them clearly showing the intent to pay, the fine was upheld.

Kudos for your honesty tho' - I don't know about now, but it was quite notorious for people to get loads of Dartcharge and ULEZ charges after selling their car if they forgot to de-link their vehicle, and most of the time the companies operating them didn't care and refused to rescind the charges and/or fines.

This is why it's very important to do all that stuff - My brother got several speeding fines after his old car got written off and taken away by the insurance company because the logbook hadn't been updated! Thankfully the police are more understanding and less greedy than the toll operators...

[Mike 2121]

4 hours ago, Bper said:

Well unfortunately I would get used to cash being confined to history. Digital currentcy will be implemented regardless of opposition by the public. Various reports have already stated that it may be brought in by a banking crash that will effect everyone over a period of 24- 48 hrs and panic will happen as no purchases can be made but the Government will make an announcement that in order to access your money you will need to use your national insurance number as your digital ID. You will then be able to pay bills and all other forms of payment but cash will no longer be available.

There is even talk that to encourage people that this is a brilliant idea everyone will be given between 5- 10 thousand pounds deposited in accounts as a sweetner. 

And do not worry about where the money will come from as it will not matter as it is digital currentcy and is just numbers on a screen.

It's funny I thought this was complete rubbish but so did I when they first talked about the London congestion charge, ULEZ, 15 minute cities. And guess what here they are.

 

 

 

 

If everyone got ten thousand pounds surely a loaf of bread would go up to fifty quid a loaf lol 😃, Fair play, i agree, digital currency will happen even if everyone hates it.

Digital currency must be criminals biggest enemy lol, as they need to hide things 😃😃

[Cyker]

Well China are ahead of the curve there; It's almost impossible to pay for anything with money. In fact, I'm told you pretty much have to have a smart phone to live over there or you'll be like a 2nd class citizen and unable to access many things.

[Bper]

5 minutes ago, Mike 2121 said:

If everyone got ten thousand pounds surely a loaf of bread would go up to fifty quid a loaf lol 😃, Fair play, i agree, digital currency will happen even if everyone hates it.

Digital currency must be criminals biggest enemy lol, as they need to hide things 😃😃

It doesn't matter the price of bread, what matters is you conform and always remember money printed or digital is just a value some one has said it's worth. Ask yourself who valued it.

[Bper]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

From Wiki:

Legal tender is a form of money that courts of law are required to recognize as satisfactory payment for any monetary debt.^[1] Each jurisdiction determines what is legal tender, but essentially it is anything which when offered ("tendered") in payment of a debt extinguishes the debt. There is no obligation on the creditor to accept the tendered payment, but the act of tendering the payment in legal tender discharges the debt.

Some jurisdictions allow contract law to overrule the status of legal tender, allowing (for example) merchants to specify that they will not accept cash payments.

⁼⁼⁼⁼

I guess they Dartford may fall back on contract law but it is a challenge to legal tender.  Offering legal tender discharges the debt. 

Could be interesting. 

Personally I prefer westabout to Gatwick or the Woolwich Ferry. 

Contract law, Adimality Law, Common law, Natural Law. Magna Carta.Judicial Law, and how are all these laws serving us today.

[AndrueC]

19 hours ago, Mike 2121 said:

I don't understand why I'm the only human that keeps screaming 😱 saying, ' i don't want to be tracked and traced by the government using my card ! '

If you're just a typical citizen going about your lawful business then the government has no interest in what you do or where you do it. Like 99% of the population you're probably nothing to the government and it really couldn't care less.

19 hours ago, Mike 2121 said:

Why would any daft silly human welcome a totally cashless society so they can be totally controlled, tracked and traced, and every transaction seen ?

See above. They really don't care enough about you or me to bother. You don't even need to be tracked. Most of us lead predictable lives and if the authorities want you they will just come to your house in the early hours because that's where you'll be, just like everyone else.

Cash is a nuisance and I stopped using it years before the Covid lockdowns.

[Big_D]

We are all already tracked through the hundreds of CCTV cameras, our mobile phones, and our IP addresses. I gave up worrying about this years ago. I've done nothing wrong, and don't believe I'm being hunted, so why worry. 

As for being tracked through bank cards, I rarely spend cash. I carry a single £20 note in my wallet for emergencies (such as places who don't take cards). I have a container in my car with about £30 worth of coins (for parking meters etc.). When I'm out and about, I tend not to use cash and put everything on either my credit card or my debit card. 

I also use a separate pre-paid card for online shopping, which is topped up only when I need to buy something online. This way, if the card details are ever stolen, they can only steal the pennies left in the account (currently 19p).

[Cyker]

Sorry guys but that's a really terrible attitude to take - Freedoms must be fought for or lost; If we just let them take them away without a fight or even protest, they'll just take more until we're living in a literal 1984 or worse.

Sure you can live in such a system if you're obedient and conform - China and Hong Kong show that - but the fact that so many people are fleeing HK before they lose the freedoms they're used to should be a warning to us to treasure the freedoms we have.

A Government's primary purpose should be to look after its citizens, but to most we're just a resource to be used and annoyance that gets in the way of their agendas.

Maybe I've read too much dystopian fiction, but it scares me how life seems to increasingly imitate art.

 

[Paul john]

This thread is getting way too serious /silly

 

if you don't want to be tracked don’t post your location on a public forum. 

[Bper]

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Sorry guys but that's a really terrible attitude to take - Freedoms must be fought for or lost; If we just let them take them away without a fight or even protest, they'll just take more until we're living in a literal 1984 or worse.

Sure you can live in such a system if you're obedient and conform - China and Hong Kong show that - but the fact that so many people are fleeing HK before they lose the freedoms they're used to should be a warning to us to treasure the freedoms we have.

A Government's primary purpose should be to look after its citizens, but to most we're just a resource to be used and annoyance that gets in the way of their agendas.

Maybe I've read too much dystopian fiction, but it scares me how life seems to increasingly imitate art.

 

Freedom more then ever is being eroded and must be fought at all costs. The reality of life is harder to accept when you deny what is in front of your face. 

[Eddie G]

4 hours ago, Cyker said:

Sorry guys but that's a really terrible attitude to take - Freedoms must be fought for or lost; If we just let them take them away without a fight or even protest, they'll just take more until we're living in a literal 1984 or worse.

Sure you can live in such a system if you're obedient and conform - China and Hong Kong show that - but the fact that so many people are fleeing HK before they lose the freedoms they're used to should be a warning to us to treasure the freedoms we have.

A Government's primary purpose should be to look after its citizens, but to most we're just a resource to be used and annoyance that gets in the way of their agendas.

Maybe I've read too much dystopian fiction, but it scares me how life seems to increasingly imitate art.

Totally Agree.

[Justin Smith]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:58 AM, FROSTYBALLS said:

The person in question didn't pay the penalty charge notices subsequently issued. Dates back to 2018/19.

Why should they pay a penalty charge ?
It is DISGUSTING that any publicly funded service is only available to people who can pay by card.
Even those of us with bank accounts don't want crappy little SPAM transactions clogging up our bank statements thanks very much.
But even worse are public toilets where you have to pay by card, and it must be contactless (Skegness for one), and don't get me onto parking charges that can only be paid by card.....

Who the hell are these people, who think they can push us all around like this ?

[Derek.w]

It a bit ridiculous so if the electronics cards readers all fail theirs no cash alternitive way to pay.

Or just maybe you left your cards at home.

I have noticed some shops with self service machines has signs up saying cards only/ no cash but at least you can go to a till operator and use cash.

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

Why should they pay a penalty charge ?

The charges for Mersey Gateway are £2 for a car, and a driver has until midnight on the day to pay.  If not paid, a penalty charge notice of £20 is issued.

The Gateway is part funded by toll charges, so If you use it, you pay a nominal toll. 

It isn't difficult to understand.

If the people in the article had paid the two toll charges in question, they would have been £4 out of pocket instead of leaving the issue for 5 years and letting the costs for non payment escalate to £870.

Also she wasn't arrested at the toll bridge, but on 29th May 2023 on suspicion of blocking the highway and obstructing enforcement officers.

So I have no sympathy at all for them.

And bear in mind the title of this topic is misleading.

[Cyker]

Ha, that reminds me of last year at RIAT - A phone mast or something died causing everyone to overload the WiFi, and loads of stalls were unable to take card payments or it took several attempts and a long time for the payment to be processed, which was both funny and tragic at the same time due to the large number of people who were paying by phone contactless and didn't bring much money.

I've also had it a few times where the internet has gone at a shop which then bricked card payments. The weirdest one was at a normally very busy petrol station, where they lost internet, and there was this bizarre situation where people would have to use the Link cash machine outside the petrol station to withdraw cash to pay for their fuel - That's probably the most that machine's ever been used