Buying MK3 Yaris - 1.33 VVTi or 1.4 D4D (1NR-FE oil burner?)

[cal296]

Hi all,

New member here, looking for a little Yaris to run around in to keep miles off my other car.
I'm looking at MK3 around 2011 -> 2013, spending no more than £4000 ideally.

Seems I can choose between 1.33 petrol or 1.4 diesel (would prefer the petrol). In my price range mileage could be anywhere between 80k -> 150k, and this wouldn't usually bother me with having much higher mileage Toyota engines before. However I keep reading the 1.33 engine (1NR-FE) suffers from the piston rings getting gunked up / becoming weak and therefore the engine starts to use oil.

Part of me finds this hard to believe as there are loads of these on the roads, surely they aren't all drinking oil? My question is, is buying a 1.33 powered MK3 Yaris unwise? Does anyone have any reliable information on when Toyota made improvements to this engine / piston rings?

Alternatively, I think I'd be quite happy with the diesel. I've only read of the occasional DPF blocking issues with these and that's just a part of owning most modern diesels.

Thanks,
Cal

[paul9]

I'd prefer the diesel but as they are being victimised by the UK's clown show currently performing in Westminster Palace, the petrol version would probably be a little better to have. Around town, petrol. Diesels tend to need some motorway miles to keep them running well and cleanly.

[bathtub tom]

I've had a '14, 1.33 petrol for nine years and (touch wood) it's never drunk a bit (I do give it some beans now and then). Do you know it'll do an indicated 80MPH in 3rd before it hits the rev limiter?

[flash22]

I would not touch a 10+ year old diesels with more and more ulez's coming, also 2010 onwards they are all DPF cars that have their own issues, lots of town driving or short trips forget it, you need to be doing 15k miles a year

1.33 it's mainly mk2's that suffer oil burning most have been fixed, they only burn oil due to the lack of maintenance one of the reasons Denso/Toyota changed the plug heat range

£4k will not get you much in this current market

 

 

[cal296]

Thanks for the info peeps. I live in the countryside so ULEZ isn't an issue at the moment, although I'm sure it will be soon.

Might take my chances on a petrol. As long as I find one that doesn't already burn oil I have no problem changing the oil regularly and keeping it running well.

With the CAT being rumoured to hide blue smoke well, I'm not sure how I'd be able to tell if a car IS burning oil until I bought and took a peek at the spark plugs...

Should I be looking for service history showing oil changes every 10k / year? Not sure what the interval is on these cars.

[Devon Aygo]

if you can get a 1.33 built after Feb 2013 the potential oil consumption issue was cured

[Cyker]

The diesel will be nicer to drive and have way better mpg but is a risky  buy with all these cursed ULEZ popping up, but the biggest nail in the coffin is it's a modern diesel so will have a DPF and probably a DMF too - The two things that flipped diesel from being the most reliable type of engine to the least. I'm a big diesel fan but wouldn't touch a modern one.

The problem with the 1NR-FE burning oil was mostly a Mk2 problem, specifically early ones - Past 2011/12 I think the problem had been pretty much sorted so will be fine in the Mk3.

 

[Gray86]

Our 2015 1.33 doesn’t burn a drop - despite my wife’s lack of mechanical sympathy. It only does 4,000 miles a year and I service it with good quality oils.

 

now on 42k miles 

[cal296]

Yeah been searching the forum tonight and am yet to find thread where a MK3 Yaris has been burning any. All MK2's or some 08-10 Auris with the issue by the looks of it.

Thanks everyone!

[Stevie J]

As others have said, the problem with the 1.33 burning oil was found in the earliest cars that used that engine, namely 2009 - 2011 Mk 2 shape Yaris. Pre 2009 they used the older 1.3 2SZ-FE engines which were very reliable. As with any new engine really, the earliest examples could well have teething problems, so the early 1.33 1NR-FE engines should be avoided. I have the 1.33 engine in my late 2014 Mk3 and although it does have low mileage (30K) it doesnt use any oil at all, and that was with my mother owning it for 7 years before I got it and she did mainly short urban runs in it and had the oil changed every 2 years (around 5 to 6K miles between changes).

I have looked around at Yaris prices and the mk3 does not come cheap, even 2011 models (61 plates) can go for well over 4 grand. Something like mine, a 2014 early Mk3 first facelift with low miles would set you back 7000 - 8500+ depending on the dealer. To get a decent 2013 model (13 or 63 plate) with around 80K miles on the clock would be around the 5 - 6 grand mark. Diesels are rarer and more expensive especially if you want a low mileage one, and for 4 grand you wont get anything decent with a diesel engine, plus anything diesel older than around a 65 plate will fall foul of the ULEZ rules as they are much more stringent than for petrol, which ALL mk3 petrol engine models would comply with (anything newer than 2006 for petrol engines) 

The 1.0 engine bear in mind in the Mk3 uses the same 3 cylinder unit found in the Aygo, and is probably a bit gutless in the Yaris, so the 1.33 would be the best bet, but I think unless you are prepared to go for a newer Cat N or Cat S damage repaired Yaris, you might not get anything newer than a 2011 or 2012 model for 4 grand. Personally I would not like to take the risk of buying a salvage repaired car, but if they have been repaired well, you could get a newer car than you would have otherwise got for your money.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Devon Aygo said:

if you can get a 1.33 built after Feb 2013 the potential oil consumption issue was cured

That would appear to be 100% correct.

Like Mr Tom of the bathtub a similar experience, not one drop of consumption, in 9 years, between engine oil changes.

Note the commas, not 9 years between oil changes!

I did own a 1.4D4D and it is an excellent engine. However, as mentioned in an earlier post, Diesels are now taboo and Greta's favourite engines.

[Cyker]

I will say the 1.33 isn't as big a boost over the 1.0L as you'd think - I found it extremely peaky, whereas the 1.0L feels like it has a more even spread of torque across its rev range.

I'd driven Aygos with the 1KR-FE and a Mk2 Yaris with an early (i.e. oil guzzling) 1NR-FE, albeit several years apart so the ol' memory is a bit fuzzy, but from what I remember they didn't feel that different at the low end, and it's only when I really started ragging them that the 1.33 would start to feel noticeably more powerful.

The Mk3 might have been tuned slightly differently tho'.

Have you considered a late-gen Mk2 actually? They're really good, smaller than the Mk3 but have far better internal space and storage, and will likely be cheaper.

 

[Stevie J]

The only problem with a late gen Mk2, ie, 2009 - 2011 is that these were the problem cars with the earliest 1.33 1NR-FE engines, so unless you want to opt for a 1.0 3 cylinder that came in the Mk2 from the same time period, then maybe a 2006 - 2008 Mk2 would be better, but then you are getting into more issues in that these 06 - 08 models are now getting on in years, and will likely have high mileages and other age related problems such as underbody corrosion and the usual tarnished and cloudy headlights that the mk2 suffered with, well, my 06 plate certainly did anyway which you can only keep buffing so many times before the MOT man fails it and it needs complete headlamp replacement. No Mk3 model seems to suffer with the UV damaging the headlights, well, none that I've seen anyway. 

Also, the MK2 had the dreadful multi-mode automated manual transmission (MMT) so if a MK2 is to be considered, and it was a 09 - 11, I'd say maybe a 1.0 manual would be the best bet, and check it well under the rear end, inner wheel arches, and inner and outer sills for corrosion. Also check the clutch works properly too, as some earlier Mk2 models had problems with clutch drag and wouldnt always completely disengage the drive from the gearbox when the clutch pedal was fully depressed - my Mk2 had this issue but I learnt to live with it. 

If a Mk3 is still in the picture, check it has a spare wheel as some of them (including my 2014 Yaris Icon) did not come with them, only an inflator and a bottle of tyre seal, although a spare wheel was later bought for my own car. 

[Gray86]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

I will say the 1.33 isn't as big a boost over the 1.0L as you'd think - I found it extremely peaky, whereas the 1.0L feels like it has a more even spread of torque across its rev range.

I'd driven Aygos with the 1KR-FE and a Mk2 Yaris with an early (i.e. oil guzzling) 1NR-FE, albeit several years apart so the ol' memory is a bit fuzzy, but from what I remember they didn't feel that different at the low end, and it's only when I really started ragging them that the 1.33 would start to feel noticeably more powerful.

The Mk3 might have been tuned slightly differently tho'.

Have you considered a late-gen Mk2 actually? They're really good, smaller than the Mk3 but have far better internal space and storage, and will likely be cheaper.

 

We had a Peugeot 107 (same car underneath as Aygo) prior to the Yaris for 9 years. I recon it was about 6-8mpg better than our Yaris, but not anywhere near as torquey. It started burning oil at 40k miles, which was helped with using a thicker oil. 
 

the 1.33 (later ones at least) have a 6th gear making motorway journeys a bit more tolerable. 

[Stevie J]

I think even the late 09 - 11 Mk2 had a 6 speed box, it was fitted to all models with the 1NR-FE 1..33 engine. Mine has 6 gears and yes, the 6th gear really does drop the revs quite a bit so I'd be doing about 2000RPM at 50MPH, but it does not work well if you encounter a hill of any type of upward gradient, especially on country roads, so a fair bit of gear changing between 4th 5th and 6th is usually necessary. Motorways of good stretches of dual carriageway are the best for using 6th gear, cruising between 60 and 70MPH.

I can get as good as 60MPG from my 1.33 on a run if i'm gentle on the throttle and use 6th gear - it really can help with eaking out the petrol, but I do use E5 petrol whenever I can so that helps too.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Stevie J said:

f a Mk3 is still in the picture, check it has a spare wheel as some of them (including my 2014 Yaris Icon) did not come with them, only an inflator and a bottle of tyre seal,

Yes, when I purchased(2014)it was disappointing there was no spare (Spacesaver). I asked for the spare "kit" as part of the "deal" or I would walk. It was supplied!

Don't go anywhere near a MMT. It's carp.

I replaced the spacesaver with a full size wheel and tyre and tried to initially sell it on Fleabay for £10, buyer collects. No interest whatsoever. I then relisted for 99p, same result. It's therefore still in my garage.

[TonyHSD]

Toyota seems to have  very high prices not only on new but on used cars too. If it’s not a hybrid necessary I will be well looking for something else tbh. Vag has really good small cars like up, polo, citigo, Ibiza, fabia, cars that are as good as Yaris or even better at lower price. Just my thoughts. 

[flash22]

You will not get 300K miles out of a vw most barely make it over 100k without something big happening

also vw's look cheaper when new but you can put £2-4K in options on the car to make them comparable, everything is an extra

[Cyker]

You can with the older ones before they started sacrificing reliability for the dash groping crowd, but as you say not so much the newer ones without some major work being needed at some point.

My mate had an old diesel Passat with the PD injectors and that was extremely comfy and indestructible - Was from the era where VW still had its reputation for reliability.

I do like the Up!'s tho - Bare bones and not much to go wrong. Like the Aygo not much grunt but a lot of fun to fling round corners  

(I... I actually think they are better than the Aygo  *hides from the pitchforks and torches* )

 

[TonyHSD]

True all above but the smaller vw are exception as they are simple and has no that many complicated components to fail. Definitely not as good as Toyota but for many people will be just fine. Before I had my high miles score with my current Auris I had my previous record on vw caddy , trouble free high miles with only simple service. 👍

[davidif]

18 hours ago, Cyker said:

You can with the older ones before they started sacrificing reliability for the dash groping crowd, but as you say not so much the newer ones without some major work being needed at some point.

My mate had an old diesel Passat with the PD injectors and that was extremely comfy and indestructible - Was from the era where VW still had its reputation for reliability.

I do like the Up!'s tho - Bare bones and not much to go wrong. Like the Aygo not much grunt but a lot of fun to fling round corners  

(I... I actually think they are better than the Aygo  *hides from the pitchforks and torches* )

 

My, now, ex-wife had a PD engine'd Passat (130bhp- it went like stink) however one of the unit injectors failed. I don't remember the exact price to change one but do recall it being eye-wateringly expensive. Also it failed at under 5 years old with no warranty or contribution from VW!

They were not all reliable even 'back in the day'

 

[Cyker]

That happened to his too IIRC, but our mutual mechanic friend fixed it by flushing it with carb cleaner and it was fine ever since  

Injectors are never a cheap thing to replace, not to mention all the coding you have to do etc.

That's been one of the things I'd hoped for with EVs - They should be vastly more reliable than anything with an engine, but so far I've been disappointed and amazed at how manufacturers of EVs have managed to cock that up so badly. I really marvel at how they've managed to make some of them so unreliable.

It's really ironic that the Toyota hybrids, despite having 'more stuff to go wrong', are somehow the most reliable vehicles on average even when up against EVs!

 

[TonyHSD]

Evs are more reliable than ice cars for sure. And if an ev is made right will be even more reliable than a Toyota hybrid, less things to go wrong.
One of the reasons I did switched to Toyota is exactly that, they do the things right and their cars work, with only regular maintenance and sensible use their cars can last ages and many miles. They can go bad sometimes too , break down etc , but then they seems to be easier to work on as diy plus.  Realising that, plus how nice the hybrids drive, how efficient they are , I often say that Toyota hybrids are the only ice cars that make sense to buy and own currently. I won’t deny that I like other makes and something I look at as alternatives but once I start to dig in , open bonnet and see what is going on, that’s it , I am back to Toyota hybrids in no time. 

[cal296]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, in terms of MK2 vs MK3 I'm happy to pay extra for a MK3 as I despise center dials! My other half used to have a Mini with center speedo, but at least they put a rev counter + speed display in your line of vision. Maybe its a love / hate thing.

Also the rust concerns me a bit with a MK2 as others have said, I dislike welding as much as I like center dials. I'm yet to see anything concerning on a MK3's MOT history regarding rust.

Hard swerve on the VAG cars too, other than an old Golf we've had nothing but trouble with them.

Looks like 4k will get me a higher mileage MK3, might extend budget a bit if right one comes along with less miles.
Would prefer an SR but they seem to be a tad more expensive, and realistically a TR may be better for rough country roads with its smaller wheels / higher profile tyres.

Anything other than the usual stuff to look out for when test driving a MK3? (obviously will check clutch, obvious signs of corrosion, coolant + oil levels)

[Stevie J]

The Mk3 seems to have issues with creaking suspension bushes, both my own (64 reg)  and even my mother's (19 reg) to a lesser extent seems to have the issue, and my Mk2 was the same as well. I dont know why Toyotas seem prone to this issue, and the extent of the creaking can vary depending on the weather / temperature / dampness, with damp cooler days causing more creaking from the suspension when going over bumps or cornering. I dont think its necessarily  an MOT failure, just a bit of an annoyance, but if a Mk3 is test driven and it appears to creak, then this is something they all seem to be a bit prone to it and its a "toyota thing"

I'm not sure if the pre 2014 Yaris mk3 has tyre pressure monitors fitted, but they do from the first facelift in mid 2014, and the TPMS system relies on Battery operated sensors in each wheel that communicate with the module. These batteries can eventually run down and put the TPMS light on, even if the pressures are fine in the tyres, and this is an MOT failure. Each valve/sensor assembly in each wheel can be rather expensive to replace and once one goes then the others will be also likely to fail. They have to be coded to the module as well when they are replaced.

If the car has LED tail lights - some models such as the Icon Plus do and some more basic models dont, then check they work - a failed one will need a complete new rear light fitting, Check the high level brake light as well as this is LED too.  The same goes for the headlights - front units that have LED daylight running lights (2014 late onwards) cannot be repaired an must have the complete headlight assembly replaced. Lesser models in the range will use a 21W/5W bulb that can be changed if it fails.

Check the windscreen washer system as I've read posts where these have failed on relatively new cars, especially if they get clagged up with slime. The washer jet sprays directly on the wiper blade rather than at the windscreen.

Check the boot floor and the rear carpets for water ingress, older cars may have leaks in this area - I think it comes in round the grommets that route the wiring from the roof of the car into the tailgate. Wet carpets in the back of the car and water in the spare wheel well or rust in this area is not good and could be tricky to cure. 

Check the A/C system works, older cars could have no gas left in the system and that can be expensive to sort out - it may need a simple re-gas, or it could have leaks in the system that will cost money to put right.