Any ideas how this Universal Basic Income will affect cars🙂

[Mike 2121]

Filling up our tanks will probably go up to four hundred quid a tank , which will be quite funny 😂😂

 

Seriously, we all know this is a huge scam to groom us into total digital currency when the government control your money and tell you what you can and can't spend your hard earned currency on. So they will probably find some way of getting UBI back from us (eg fined for sneezing on a spider by accident)

[Cyker]

I've always liked the idea of things like this as it's a step toward the sort of post-scarcity utopian future things like Star Trek and Ian M Banks' Culture series portray (Rather than the dystopia we currently seem to be headed towards!).

Like, if everyone had a UBI, do you think it would reduce crime? Why would you go around stealing stuff and mugging people if you didn't need to? There's always a few proper crazies who are just of a criminal nature, but I would imagine it would drop significantly and the money saved from that alone would off-set a lot of the cost.

It's all in the implementation tho', and how sustainable and abuseable it is... Where's the money going to come from? And it builds a dependence on the government which is an institution my faith and trust in is at an all-time low. If you become a non-person in that environment, how can you survive? And how would you stop a mass exodus of people from countries that don't have a UBI to ones that do?

Lots of potential, for both good and bad...

[Rhymes with Paris]

25 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Like, if everyone had a UBI, do you think it would reduce crime? Why would you go around stealing stuff and mugging people if you didn't need to? There's always a few proper crazies who are just of a criminal nature, but I would imagine it would drop significantly and the money saved from that alone would off-set a lot of the cost.

No Cyker, I don't think that it would reduce crime unfortunately.

A lot of theories abound on the causes of crime, ranging from poverty and austerity, to inner city deprivation and drug addiction.

Poor parenting, foetal alcohol syndrome,lack of education, absent fathers and many others.

In my opinion though, the causes of crime are a lot more simple, criminals cause crime.

And what makes a criminal decide to be a criminal is mainly greed, utter selfishness as in no empathy for others whatsoever, and a complete lack of a moral compass.

Even if there was a UBI, which would probably be far in excess of many incomes that exist now, the criminals would still steal and mug ,and assault people for fun.

You can see criminals in plain sight,if someone is acting in a manner that indicates utter selfishness, such as bad driving,fit people parking in disabled bays, drive blocking, shouting and threatening physically weaker people, and general bullying, it's odds on that they do a lot more serious things that fall under the criminal description.

Again I emphasise that this is my opinion , and may be different from others.

 

 

[davidif]

I think that a UBI would simply fuel inflation and ultimately most of us would be  worse off and not better off.

[Cyker]

If handled properly it shouldn't, but given the breath-taking incompetence of the people in charge and people that want to be in charge, I agree they'd probably screw it up and make things worse. That does seem to be the general theme so far...

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

There are always going to be peop!e who want more - whether that is money, property or possessions. So UBI won't stop or reduce crime.

Moved to General Discussions.

[Bper]

The concerns about crime and UBI along with who is going to pay for this doesn't take much thought.

As I have said in my own posts, people must take notice that the age of digital currency is not far off so paper money will be a thing of the past.

What's going to happen to the black economy markets that include drugs and theft that have produced cash in hand for stolen goods and fencing etc.,? It will be gone.

All money transactions will be made via digital means, everyone will have a digital account so any and all transactions will be identified as to the source they originate from.

There will be no hiding how that money went into the account .

Multiple accounts in different banks will no longer be available, neither will any accounts be able to be opened due to identifiers through technologies overseen by AI may include finger print, facial recognition, retinal scans to name just a few. But don't worry, they have had a long time to work this out so it will be secured technology.

UBI has been talked about for years and the idea is you will become dependent on the state for income but that will eventually be based on a social credit score. See China for how they operate this.

Crime will eventually become a thing of the past as well. Anyone caught stealing may not even go to jail, they will have their access to their digital account frozen of funds or limited until they recover social credit status. This punishment alone will stop them committing crime.

Just imagine no money and no means of obtaining it. Of course, they can steal again but who will they sell to and who is going to buy when the state can freeze their accounts and reduce the social credit score and know where the money came from.

This is not Sci fi or a conspiracy theory, just look what's going on with 15 minute cities, low traffic neighbourhoods, digital currency to name just a few. There is so much that is going on behind the scenes and so much is being created to distract the public while this is being implemented.

Most of this sold under the 2030 and 2050 agenda's. No one wants to see this happen but the belief that we live in a democratic country has been slowly eroded over the years. The recent pandemic showed what a government can do and how easy the masses conformed.

It is reality and it is happening.

[Mike 2121]

The powers at be keep telling to the taxpayer they will barely fund it , so where will the money come from ? ! 🤷, the only other option is to print more money lol, or maybe aliens will fund it 😃.

Surely this world cannot function if everyone is equal ?, surely governments need criminals and criminals need governments ?? 🤔🤔

[Hybrid21]

In my opinion benefits are excessively high and too easy to obtain.

This has caused a culture of why should I work ?

There are people who have never had a job and never will, a really sad situation and contributes to the majority of problems in the UK today.

[Big_D]

7 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

In my opinion benefits are excessively high and too easy to obtain.

This has caused a culture of why should I work ?

There are people who have never had a job and never will, a really sad situation and contributes to the majority of problems in the UK today.

Far too true.

I remember my daughter telling me about a girl who used to be in her class. About five years after my daughter finished her A levels they bumped into each other. During a brief chat, it came to light that the girl had four children and lived in a council house. She drove a new car, and had never worked a day in her life. My daughter referred to her, and these are her words not mine, as a Baby making factory out to claim benefits.

[Bper]

19 hours ago, Mike 2121 said:

The powers at be keep telling to the taxpayer they will barely fund it , so where will the money come from ? ! 🤷, the only other option is to print more money lol, or maybe aliens will fund it 😃.

Surely this world cannot function if everyone is equal ?, surely governments need criminals and criminals need governments ?? 🤔🤔

Mike, the money comes from and always will from ourselves. Equality is an illusion. We have all been indoctrinated from birth to believe that what we are taught is true. It is not our parents fault or teachers they only past on what they had be taught was true and this has been the case generation after generation.

Criminals and government working hand in hand is true but not the way we perceive this to be. How many times have we asked ourselves why is the crime level so high and why is there such a drug epidemic when we are an island and we could get rid of this by having our coastal area and ports patrolled and monitored with the Navy police, and army etc.,? but this never happens and gets worse year after year.

It's not the government that allow this, if it was and they had total control of what happens then it would have disappeared long ago. Most people believe that either governments or MP's are useless and it is easy to see why.

Ask a politician a question and they will never give a straight forward answer as they have to stick to the party line on major issues.

So who really controls all this? conspiracy theorists say the 1% but who are the 1% that they bang on about?

Well, if you listen to enough people it is everyone from aliens to lizards to satanic cults.

No, its a lot simpler then that. It's the one's that control the one thing that makes the world go round and that is money. But who really controls this,the banks, finance institutions, etc.,?

You have to look back a long time ago how the concept of money was used for the trade of goods and who was responsible for seeing the potential of how this could be expanded and manipulated.

Once you understand how and why today the same generation of people still control and own not only the flow of money but they have attained ultimate power, unlimited money and unlimited and unquestionable control over this world to carry out their will regardless of the cost to humanity then it opens your eyes to the reality of the world we really live in.

Once you spend the time and effort to read look,listen and learn about how this all works it opens your eyes and it makes you feel when you learn the truth that we have basically been lied to and manipulated all our lives and so have our generations before us.

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, it must be the truth.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Autonomy, a research organisation, is hoping to get funding for a two year pilot involving 60 people getting £1600 per month as universal basic income. Cost just over £2.3 million.

So currently it isn't funded and it isn't government who are proposing this pilot. 

Depending whether anyone does fund this - and there is no certainty of this - it would count as income for the people concerned, and would probably negate any benefits they currently receive.

So let's see whether it does go ahead and where the funding comes from.

[FROSTYBALLS]

"Any ideas how this Universal Basic Income will affect cars"

As far as I'm aware, cars won't be entitled to Universal Basic Income, just humans .......

[Big_D]

So, if they get £1600 per month, this equals £19200 per year tax free. Add the basic rate of 20% on the earnings above £12571 makes an annual income of £20525.

This is almost as much as a person employed as a Customer Services Representative makes, and they have to put up with carp from upset customers

 

[Mike 2121]

Im gonna try and stop Ranting now lol, i tell you one thing, i can't think of a more scary time to be alive on earth with artificial intelligence about to take over humanity and total control, mind you Apparently in the middle ages was hard because they worked until they dropped literally and any little illness like a bad cold you could be brown bread 

[Hybrid21]

7 hours ago, Big_D said:

So, if they get £1600 per month, this equals £19200 per year tax free. Add the basic rate of 20% on the earnings above £12571 makes an annual income of £20525.

This is almost as much as a person employed as a Customer Services Representative makes, and they have to put up with carp from upset customers

 

Exactly Bob, they're not going to want to work for a living ☹️

[FROSTYBALLS]

Universal Basic Income isn't a replacement for benefits.

 "A Universal Basic Income could vary with age, but there would be no other conditions: so everyone of the same age would receive the same Universal Basic Income, whatever their gender, employment status, family structure, contribution to society, housing costs, or anything else."

Also isn't tax free.

[Hybrid21]

I would imagine that it would be Universal Basic Income plus the various benefits 🙂

[FROSTYBALLS]

27 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

I would imagine that it would be Universal Basic Income plus the various benefits 🙂

.... or wages, salary, pension, etc.

[Big_D]

8 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Exactly Bob, they're not going to want to work for a living 

@Hybrid21My point exactly. Why put up with carp from people for a salary, when you don't have to work at all for similar money.

 

7 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

 "A Universal Basic Income could vary with age, but there would be no other conditions: so everyone of the same age would receive the same Universal Basic Income, whatever their gender, employment status, family structure, contribution to society, housing costs, or anything else."

Does this equate to something along the lines of "the older I get, the more I get"? Once again, it's not worth working. If people are going to get money for working, and a similar amount for not working, why work??

I admit there are some genuine cases where benefits are really required. In my humble opinion, the vast majority of people who are on benefits choose not to work even though they can.

[Cyker]

The thing is, unless we have a massive technology slump, we will likely need something like UBI at some point in the future, if we want to continue on a currency/economics-based system.

Advancements in all areas increasingly enables a single person to the work of many; Just look at farming and manufacturing and how much technology has changed those industries - A handful of people can do the work that hundreds used to have to do.

More and more things are being automated - Even now in e.g. a supermarket, you can go a buy a weeks worth of shopping and not interact with a single employee. In my local, 90% of the tills aren't even manned except at certain times of day because everyone uses the self-serve. Recently we went at a restaurant, and the preferred way to order was to scan a QR code on the table and order 'online', rather than speak to a waiter/ress.

With the population continuing to increase, and available jobs, esp. lower-skilled work, shrinking and pay not following inflation so people don't want to do them, the job market is getting tighter and tighter.

When automated vehicles become a thing, that will hit the public transport workforce significantly - Trains, busses, taxies may all eventually driven by computers.

And there's already research going into things like virtual classrooms where the teacher is just an virtual avatar of some sort.

This is all fairly far away, but we as a society need to at least be starting to think about how we're going to adapt, and having a UBI will at least stop people thieving and rioting because they can't get a job and have no income.

 

[Big_D]

I think the key words here are 

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

can't get a job and have no income

There is a big difference between can't get a job and have no income, and can get a job but don't want to do the job they can get; OR couldn't be bothered to get a job because they will still get an income.

[Cyker]

Agree, although I remember when I got out of university I had a lot of trouble finding a job in my chosen field, so had to go on the job centre thing and they were trying to force me into any menial job rather than actually helping me find something relevant to what I'd just burned 3 years of my life for - I do wonder how many degree-holding people end up working as waiters or shelf-stackers for a significant time because of things like that.

 

[Bper]

Has the point of attaining a degree become academic to the job market today. It's amazing how many young people we have spoken to who have gone to university and taken degree's that have no relevance to the career they thought they wanted to do.

Many are working in low paid jobs like coffee chains etc and to be honest they do not seem concerned at the low pay or how this is going to affect their ability to save money for the every increasing deposit they need in the future for a home.

I think many would welcome a basic universal income when it is offered.  How things have changed.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

43 minutes ago, Cyker said:

although I remember when I got out of university I had a lot of trouble finding a job in my chosen field, so had to go on the job centre thing and they were trying to force me into any menial job rather than actually helping me find something relevant to what I'd just burned 3 years of my life for

To be honest, Jobcentres weren't, and aren't, there to provide careers advice, etc. Back in the 70's and 80's, although being separate to benefits, they still had a major role in seeing that people were looking for work and meeting conditions for claiming benefit.

They also had and have a responsibility for purchasing and managing various types of programmes to get people back into work.