Dealer overfilled

[Stivino]

The crankshaft doesn't "hit" the oil in the sump (who writes this stuff?) the crankshaft is above the oil and the oil is sucked up and pumped to the crankshaft bearings.

[Popama]

5 minutes ago, Stivino said:

The crankshaft doesn't "hit" the oil in the sump (who writes this stuff?) the crankshaft is above the oil and the oil is sucked up and pumped to the crankshaft bearings.

And if the oil level is over the limit (higher up inside the crankcase) as in the topic of this discussion thread wouldn't it then run the risk of being in contact with the crankshaft ?

[Stivino]

1 minute ago, Popama said:

And if the oil level is over the limit (higher up inside the crankcase) as in the topic of this discussion thread wouldn't it then run the risk of being in contact with the crankshaft ?

It is possible but, do you realise just how much extra oil would need to be in there before it reached the crankshaft?  Have a think about it.

[APS]

2 minutes ago, Popama said:

And if the oil level is over the limit (higher up inside the crankcase) as in the topic of this discussion thread wouldn't it then run the risk of being in contact with the crankshaft ?

You'd have to fill about triple the normal amount if not more - read: a lot!  It would be expensive for a dealer to fill that much oil in every car they service.

[Popama]

Most of us are unaware of the width an length of the crankcase as we are not in possession of any detailed documentation of the size of the engine internals (most manufacturers rarely offer more information than the bore and stroke of the pistons) so we can not opine on how much is too much. For this purpose the markings on the oil dipstick have been made and since our level is above those markings... I think you get the idea from here, right? Along with ”who writes this stuff”, just regular people inquiring about the delivered instructions.

[APS]

On 6/8/2023 at 1:34 PM, Søren Hansen said:

They showed me there oil equipment.  And assured me that was the amount they filled on all Toyota's with that engine. 

Hej Søren - I hope that they put your mind at ease. It really isn't anything to worry about. There is plenty of safety margin for error. Also, the reading is usually really sensitive to the car being on level ground. Yet another reason for the safety margin. 

As I mentioned in a different response; it would be uneconomical for a dealer to fill 'dangerous' amounts of oil in customer's cars. 🙂

[Popama]

19 minutes ago, APS said:

As I mentioned in a different response; it would be uneconomical for a dealer to fill 'dangerous' amounts of oil in customer's cars.

On the contrary.
Unless you bought some sort of a package where the annual service is included you will be charged for per milliliter used in the refill. They save time by not filling up gradually until the correct maximum level or by not correcting the overfill. I do not see how the dealer would cash more if they filled the right amount each time.

[APS]

14 minutes ago, Popama said:

I do not see how the dealer would cash more if they filled the right amount each time.

Maybe it's different where you live but here in the UK dealers have fixed pricing on services. They can tell you how much your service will cost when you book it and I've never experienced that it deviates from the quoted price (bar any additional work required). And why wouldn't they? They know exactly how much oil your car needs and it will always be the same. Yes, on an invoice they may itemise the oil and show it as 5 litres at £x.xx /litre. 

[Popama]

15 minutes ago, APS said:

.. here in the UK dealers have fixed pricing on services. 

I did not know. Then it makes sense they would be at a loss.

[Saxmaniac]

The oil level will be different when it's hot compared to cold. I believe it should be at the full mark when hot? Correct me if I'm wrong. I once had a friend who saw the oil pressure warning come on before the engine started... yes really... and added a full gallon of oil to it. The oil shot out of there like you wouldn't believe and showered everything around like first strike on an oil field!

[Mooly]

My understanding has long been that overfilling runs the risk of the crank causing frothing and aeration of the oil which if extreme could lead to oil starvation.

You have to remember the recommended level should cope with extremes such as heavy braking going down a 20% gradient at high speed (throwing the oil to the front), same for tight cornering at crazy speeds to the point of losing it or foot to floor acceleration up a steep incline. None of those should ever cause oil supply issues to the pump.

Also read the bit on 'Automobiles' here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windage

My own view and I can't see any slight overfill being an issue for most normal drivers, all you are doing is just taking a bit of the safety factor away should you suddenly drive to the absolute limits (with regard to throwing the oil around). The more you overfill and the more you should stick to 'Driving Miss Daisy'.

YMMV 

   

[TonyHSD]

I am against oil overfill in any component, engine , transmission or differential on rear and awd cars. I have personally  experienced myself slight whining from the transmission at certainly high speeds , the gear oil was tiny bit above, after reduced to the exact quantity the whining noise almost completely disappeared.  Once I drove a car for around 100 miles and the engine was overfilled by 1ltr , which was around a 1.3 cm or half an inch above the max mark. The extra oil didn’t cause any trouble for the moment, then after I took it out and sold the car. The other day my neighbour asked me to check her car, guess what no oil in, just a tiny drop at he bottom of the dipstick, the car was not parked at level ground, but even so was at minimum. , no good. I filed up a litre in and the oil mark went past the middle but below max level which is better then before, total oil in this car is 3.5 Ltr , so she might have had just 2 ltr in. Again no problems. However anyone who cares about their cars better not experimenting that way. Keep it at max mark is the best especially durable summer hot weather, oil not just lubricate but also transfer heat and cools the engine 👍

[Cyker]

How about a dry-sump conversion?   

[Mooly]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Keep it at max mark is the best especially durable summer hot weather, oil not just lubricate but also transfer heat and cools the engine

Yes. This is one of the things I have seen levelled at the 1.33L engine in that the sump capacity was really to small and the oil does not get chance to cool before it is pumped on its way again. Argued to be one of the contributing factor of the oil burning issue developing.  

[TonyHSD]

11 hours ago, Mooly said:

Yes. This is one of the things I have seen levelled at the 1.33L engine in that the sump capacity was really to small and the oil does not get chance to cool before it is pumped on its way again. Argued to be one of the contributing factor of the oil burning issue developing.  

That’s why probably later models has oil cooler next to the oil filter. 😉👍

[Gerhard_Corolla]

It's a common practice in Germany as well...

 

It as also could be that they pump the exact quantity stated in the manual and do not allow the old oil to drip completely. As they saying goes, time is money, and I could perfectly see that they screw the oil plug again too soon or doing the job when their schedule has an opening, hence allowing the old oil to cool down and not flowing out properly.

 

Either way, it's annoying as hell...

[Mooly]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

That’s why probably later models has oil cooler next to the oil filter.

I didn't know they had done that on later versions. The 1.6L Carina II I used to have had a simple oil cooler as I recall. 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Mooly said:

I didn't know they had done that on later versions. The 1.6L Carina II I used to have had a simple oil cooler as I recall. 

Not on all engine, but I have seen it on some, perhaps Yaris gr or 1.2t Auris Corolla , perhaps where it needs to have one. Hybrids perhaps barely will need it as they run most of the time cold, cold brakes , cold engine but when driving on motorways long time they do get hot like any other cars . 

[Søren Hansen]

On 6/13/2023 at 1:28 PM, APS said:

Hej Søren - I hope that they put your mind at ease. It really isn't anything to worry about. There is plenty of safety margin for error. Also, the reading is usually really sensitive to the car being on level ground. Yet another reason for the safety margin. 

As I mentioned in a different response; it would be uneconomical for a dealer to fill 'dangerous' amounts of oil in customer's cars. 🙂

Hi. 

Yes.. I have ease of mind 😊 I can't notice any difference in the way the car drives, or the fuel consumption. Everything is as usual. 

The mechanic who checked my oil when I came back actually confirmed that they drain the oil untill it stops drippin. And then fill the specific amount from the data sheet. And it often shows a bit above max that way. 

I'm still a happy yota driver. 😊

[TonyHSD]

So  I this case they overfilled by 200-300ml, sometimes even more. Another member with rav4 has 500ml out 🫢

[Søren Hansen]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:05 AM, TonyHSD said:

So  I this case they overfilled by 200-300ml, sometimes even more. Another member with rav4 has 500ml out 🫢

Well. I assume the amount of overfill will be pretty consistent. The times I have visited the shop. The mechanics where walking around working focused. But not stressed or running around. That tells me they have a nice working atmosphere and have the time to do a good job. 😊

[AisinW]

6 mm is not a problem even in the steep hills Alp driving. I always accidentally add too much oil too. It is supposed to be 4.2 L but if I did 4.2L, itbis always 3mm above the max. When I filled 4.5L, it was almost 1 cm above and still fine too. There is no measurable difference on the amount of oil onside the throttle body. It is just designed that way on gen 3 1.8L. 

I think up to 1 L overfill is not a problem. But I will definitely drain some if it was 2L overfilled. Never ever had this before but I helped neighbour when his wife overfilled 5L on his  Jeep. It was a mess, even the air filter was soaked on oil.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, AisinW said:

6 mm is not a problem even in the steep hills Alp driving. I always accidentally add too much oil too. It is supposed to be 4.2 L but if I did 4.2L, itbis always 3mm above the max. When I filled 4.5L, it was almost 1 cm above and still fine too. There is no measurable difference on the amount of oil onside the throttle body. It is just designed that way on gen 3 1.8L. 

I think up to 1 L overfill is not a problem. But I will definitely drain some if it was 2L overfilled. Never ever had this before but I helped neighbour when his wife overfilled 5L on his  Jeep. It was a mess, even the air filter was soaked on oil.

I would disagree here with the overfill amount. I had many cars as trade in and for personal use, and tbh there had been examples  with well overfilled engine oil and those were even not nice to drive. The engine was somehow quieter but also sluggish and felt like less power., very similar to when you drive with under inflated tyres or with a binding brakes. As soon as the oil level was corrected the engine has become slightly louder but nothing excessive and of corse much more lively to drive. Power and response were immediately restored. Engine oil should not go past the max mark. It’s ok to be between min and max but not below min or above max marks. 👍

[AisinW]

Overfill is not good but not terrible. 5 mm from max strip when engine is cold is not a problem, probably 0.3 L overfill like what I often did.  The problem really starts if the crankshaft hit the oil sump. That can happen when the car is tilted on a steep hill or on tight fast turn. 

We should see with the dipstick if the oil is foaming (not to be confused with some normal traip bubble) . If it does, then drain some right away. The crankshaft is curning the oil sump. I think it takes more than 1 L when that can happen.