Bye Bye bZ4X .....

[lightboxcar]

With great sadness we have parted with our lovely bZ4X after only six months of use.

We have suffered a substantial five figure loss.

It is a great shame, as the car was brilliant in so many ways.  Quiet, comfortable, super good road holding, a great infotainment system, and more...

The entertainer Rowan Atkinson says he feels duped by electric cars :

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/rowan-atkinson-feels-duped-by-electric-cars-and-believes-used-cars-are-the-future/285057

Whatever Rowan's reasons are , here is our reasoning :

1.  Absolutely unviable charging infrastructure

broken chargers that just do not work

chargers located where there is no phone signal

major motorway service stations with only two chargers for 1000 plus cars

chargers that only work with certain cars, and more...

2.  Range:  we NEVER achieved anything close the claimed range, even in warm weather, ECO mode, no AC etc. and very careful driving.  Our best was about 180 miles vs WLTP of 285.

3.  Energy costs:  these have risen hugely, the cost of charging an EV at public chargers, if you can find a working one, is now considerably more expensive than petrol.

4.  Car Tax: despite offering incentives with zero road tax, this will now end in about 18 months and the car will be liable for road tax

To be honest we could live with the range, in practice with care and planning, it was workable.

The car tax was always going to happen and is perhaps only fair to other ICE owners.

Even with massive increase in energy costs since we ordered the car in early 2022, the hope would be they would reduce again over time.

But the deal breaker was not being able to reliably know you could get the car charged on the move.

A car is for convenience, safety, reliability and of course driving pleasure.

When is becomes nothing but stress and worry, and not being able to reliably know you can safely reach your destination, then you have to admit defeat, and a lesson ( expensive lesson ) learned.

The silver lining is our new RAV4 PHEV is amazing !!

[Eddiefh]

I could live with the range of 180 , but the price of a new one is out of my league and I would fancy a second hand ones that’s a few years old 

[flash22]

That sums up ev's in a nutshell, used EV prices have taken a dive in the last few months something like 13%

Hybrid is viable at the moment, as i have said previously real world EV doesn't work, the Battery tech is still too young

[Cyker]

It's sad but these are basically the same problems EVs have had for the past decade, and despite EVangelists claiming otherwise, I haven't seen any significant improvement.

This is why my stance is EVs are only worth looking at if you can charge at home (and/or work!) and don't need to go beyond its range - Anything else and you're just setting yourself up for a lot of anxiety and inconvenience.

It sucks that you've lost so much money on it tho', but dealers do tend to low-ball you on the part-ex. I think you made a good switch - The RAV4 is a similar vehicle but without the downsides  

 

[Primus1]

I was just looking on auto trader at the Vauxhall mokka e, some are ridiculously cheap at a year old, I’m awaiting my Yaris cross hybrid , I think this is the way to go, best of both worlds , I’ve just driven down to the new forest for our holiday, my car is ice, 60mpg, done on half a tankful, yes, with an EV you can plan your journeys around charging points, but if they aren’t working when you get there, !!, plus, if you stop ar a motorway services to charge, and there’s a queue, it could take hours to get to charge, then you’d have to pay extra for parking, more cost, if the charging infrastructure were there then EV,s might make more sense..

[flash22]

Avoid the Peugeot Mokka, I will never go back to Vauxhall unless it's a classic, the same goes for Nissan (Renault)

[Primus1]

19 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Avoid the Peugeot Mokka, I will never go back to Vauxhall unless it's a classic, the same goes for Nissan (Renault)

No, I wouldn’t buy one, just happened to look and saw how much money they lose, same with Nissan leaf…

[ernieb]

2 hours ago, lightboxcar said:

With great sadness we have parted with our lovely bZ4X after only six months of use.

We have suffered a substantial five figure loss.

It is a great shame, as the car was brilliant in so many ways.  Quiet, comfortable, super good road holding, a great infotainment system, and more...

The entertainer Rowan Atkinson says he feels duped by electric cars :

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/rowan-atkinson-feels-duped-by-electric-cars-and-believes-used-cars-are-the-future/285057

Whatever Rowan's reasons are , here is our reasoning :

1.  Absolutely unviable charging infrastructure

broken chargers that just do not work

chargers located where there is no phone signal

major motorway service stations with only two chargers for 1000 plus cars

chargers that only work with certain cars, and more...

2.  Range:  we NEVER achieved anything close the claimed range, even in warm weather, ECO mode, no AC etc. and very careful driving.  Our best was about 180 miles vs WLTP of 285.

3.  Energy costs:  these have risen hugely, the cost of charging an EV at public chargers, if you can find a working one, is now considerably more expensive than petrol.

4.  Car Tax: despite offering incentives with zero road tax, this will now end in about 18 months and the car will be liable for road tax

To be honest we could live with the range, in practice with care and planning, it was workable.

The car tax was always going to happen and is perhaps only fair to other ICE owners.

Even with massive increase in energy costs since we ordered the car in early 2022, the hope would be they would reduce again over time.

But the deal breaker was not being able to reliably know you could get the car charged on the move.

A car is for convenience, safety, reliability and of course driving pleasure.

When is becomes nothing but stress and worry, and not being able to reliably know you can safely reach your destination, then you have to admit defeat, and a lesson ( expensive lesson ) learned.

The silver lining is our new RAV4 PHEV is amazing !!

Really feel for you but you will enjoy the PHEV for sure. Your analysis of the issues is exactly what has put me off moving to a full EV. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

the same goes for Nissan (Renault)

With Nissan being the majority shareholder in  Mitsubishi, they are selling rebadged Renault Capturs as Mitsubishi ASXs, and rebadged Clios as Mitsubishi Colts in Europe.

[Mojo1010]

Made the correct change for yourself. EVs are only suitable for a limited numbers of people. Enjoy the new car. 

Lamp post charger on my street cost. When previously checked it was 44p kWh, now it's 2 tariff. There are now 3 chargers in my road, problem is even if wanted to charge at midnight, other cars probably occupy the space. 

[Yugguy1970]

Same here, range is less of a concern than the uncertainty of charging.

But then what I really want is a breakthrough in hydrogen production tech and a hydrogen hybrid rav4

[Bper]

Real world experience, real world problems and real world reasons for the disappointment with owning an EV.😢

[Mojo1010]

When one pay the EV price, range is a big factor, one of the reason one paid a for an extra premium for a higher range. To get 100 miles less range is very poor. 

[AJones]

There appears to be an particular issue with the bZ4X and poor range, some motoring magazines in Scandinavia did a range of detailed range tests and its performance was poor, quite a lot worse than other EVs to the point that it is reported Toyota are investigating and looking at updating the software.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/disappointing-134-mile-bz4x-achieves-half-of-official-ev-range-figure-in-danish-test-toyota-investigating/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/toyota-bz4x-ota-update-will-unlock-

[ernieb]

4 minutes ago, AJones said:

There appears to be an particular issue with the bZ4X and poor range, some motoring magazines in Scandinavia did a range of detailed range tests and its performance was poor, quite a lot worse than other EVs to the point that it is reported Toyota are investigating and looking at updating the software.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/disappointing-134-mile-bz4x-achieves-half-of-official-ev-range-figure-in-danish-test-toyota-investigating/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/toyota-bz4x-ota-update-will-unlock-

There is already a software fix that some people have had installed in there cars. I think the above references are a little dated.

I think Toyota’s next BEV release will be timed for the summer as they are more likely to get something approaching the stated specs, maybe?

[AJones]

26 minutes ago, ernieb said:

There is already a software fix that some people have had installed in there cars. I think the above references are a little dated.

If you check the software thread, people were getting the software update from May onward, which is just a couple of weeks ago, so hardly that dated!

[philip42h]

18 hours ago, lightboxcar said:

To be honest we could live with the range, in practice with care and planning, it was workable. ...

But the deal breaker was not being able to reliably know you could get the car charged on the move.

And that, I think, is the crux of the matter, and why many of us have held off going down the EV route for now.

(And there's nothing to be gained by disappearing down the WLTP rat-hole in yet another thread 😉 )

[yossarian247]

Slightly off-topic, but I've noticed in the recent hot weather in the UK the amount of Tesla drivers I see with their windows open, compared to petrol/diesel/hybrid drivers. I appreciate that some people just like driving with open windows in hot weather, but the fact that so many of them seem to be in Teslas makes me think they are trying to conserve range by not using A/C?

[lightboxcar]

4 hours ago, yossarian247 said:

conserve range by not using A/C?

Thats' exactly what happened to us, should have mentioned that part in the original post.

It tramspired that we became so obsessed / anxious about range , we found ourselves constantly checking the remaining the rane, and doing all sort of things to conserve the remaining Battery charge level.

Even when plenty of charge was remaining on the Battery, the instinct was to avoid at all costs using heating or AC.

This was such a shame as it really impacted on the driving experience.

Today we went for a drive in our new RAV4 PHEV.  The outside temperatures here in London were around 32 degrees C.

Had AC on throughout the journey.

It was a most pleasurable drive...........

 

[Cyker]

4 hours ago, yossarian247 said:

Slightly off-topic, but I've noticed in the recent hot weather in the UK the amount of Tesla drivers I see with their windows open, compared to petrol/diesel/hybrid drivers. I appreciate that some people just like driving with open windows in hot weather, but the fact that so many of them seem to be in Teslas makes me think they are trying to conserve range by not using A/C?

I've noticed a lot of drivers, not just EVs, driving around with their windows open lately - I guess the EV drivers are worried about range and everyone else is worried about fuel prices!!  

 

[RUToyota]

Sad story...and reaffirms my choice NOT to consider an EV for now.

I certainly couldn't afford to take the hit the OP took....that's scary.!

[Eddie G]

Same reasons i don't go there, even have a garage and could get a changer fitted but no thanks EV.

[swoop5511]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:18 PM, lightboxcar said:

With great sadness we have parted with our lovely bZ4X after only six months of use.

We have suffered a substantial five figure loss.

It is a great shame, as the car was brilliant in so many ways.  Quiet, comfortable, super good road holding, a great infotainment system, and more...

The entertainer Rowan Atkinson says he feels duped by electric cars :

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/rowan-atkinson-feels-duped-by-electric-cars-and-believes-used-cars-are-the-future/285057

Whatever Rowan's reasons are , here is our reasoning :

1.  Absolutely unviable charging infrastructure

broken chargers that just do not work

chargers located where there is no phone signal

major motorway service stations with only two chargers for 1000 plus cars

chargers that only work with certain cars, and more...

2.  Range:  we NEVER achieved anything close the claimed range, even in warm weather, ECO mode, no AC etc. and very careful driving.  Our best was about 180 miles vs WLTP of 285.

3.  Energy costs:  these have risen hugely, the cost of charging an EV at public chargers, if you can find a working one, is now considerably more expensive than petrol.

4.  Car Tax: despite offering incentives with zero road tax, this will now end in about 18 months and the car will be liable for road tax

To be honest we could live with the range, in practice with care and planning, it was workable.

The car tax was always going to happen and is perhaps only fair to other ICE owners.

Even with massive increase in energy costs since we ordered the car in early 2022, the hope would be they would reduce again over time.

But the deal breaker was not being able to reliably know you could get the car charged on the move.

A car is for convenience, safety, reliability and of course driving pleasure.

When is becomes nothing but stress and worry, and not being able to reliably know you can safely reach your destination, then you have to admit defeat, and a lesson ( expensive lesson ) learned.

The silver lining is our new RAV4 PHEV is amazing !!

Sorry to hear you’re finding that an EV isn’t for you, but lets also keep things in perspective a bit

 

For Rowan Atkinson article there is a rebuttal.  Fact check: why Rowan Atkinson is wrong about electric vehicles | Electric, hybrid and low-emission cars | The Guardian

 

You’re going to be hard-pressed to find a new car that does not lose 5-figure value in first 6 months. Webuyanycar actually states that, while obviously varying on type/make/model, a new car will lose 15-35% of its value in the first year and up to 50% in the first three years

 https://www.webuyanycar.com/car-valuation/car-value-after-3-years/#:~:text=Cars%20start%20to%20depreciate%20the,over%20the%20first%20three%20years.

 

So nothing EV specific and nothing special.

Re your actual listed reasoning

 

1. Have not experienced this at least in our area. But to be fair, I don’t do regular long road trips that constantly require on-the-road charging.
2. Absolutely reasonable argument, but at the same time I don’t know how your max is 180. Assuming that is in good temps and with a 62.5kw useable Battery equated to 2.88 m/kw. That’s really low, my average for last winter was 3.2 m/kw and that was including the -10 cold spells etc. Right now I am getting 4.5 m/kw in mixed driving and at least 3.5 m/kw on highway only.  I guess personal mileage does vary. The whole WLTP thing is my single biggest issue with the car where Toyota clearly used much larger range of 71.5kw Battery for the WLTP / EPA testing and then restricted it afterwards for the sake of longevity and 10 year warranty.
3. This applies to any and all EVs and counter-argument is that you can charge your EV on Octopus Energy EV tariff overnight for 7.5ct per KW beating any petrol price available. The whole point of EVs is the ability and comfort to charge from home and then at very reduced rates. On-the-road charging is where you pay the premium vs the benefit of charging at home. The average commute for the UK is 23 miles and the top end is 42 miles (14%) meaning the majority of people can comfortably cover their commute range with an EV. Now that clearly does not apply to all and especially not if you’re doing a fair amount of road trips.
4. Car tax applies to any and all cars. EV should not be an exception.

 

Again, I am sorry to hear that an EV isn’t for you and that you went back to petrol car. Especially a hybrid …

Clearly range anxiety and personal experience created an environment of stress and worry and the BZ4x (or any car) is too expensive for that.

[jcps001]

Just my view on this...

Don't buy an EV if you're not planning to install a charger in your home. If you buy an EV hoping to rely on the public charging infrastructure, you're going to be smacked hard in the face. If you want an EV, make sure you can recharge at home, using the hours when it is cheaper to do so.

I like Toyota's, and I would like to have one of the brand's EVs... But sadly, this is not the first time I heard about current Toyota's EV range... This all started with the Lexus electric car... It seems to be true then, that Toyota's first EVs leave a lot to be desired, when it comes to range...

And, you may burn me all you want, but I am being as objective as I can on this... Right now, cheap and good EVs are Renaults. If you want something better, if you're ready to spend a bit more, get a Hyundai or a KIA. If you want the absolute best, when it comes to efficiency and range, get a Tesla (there are quality issues with those things, but that's what it is...).

[Rav4ster]

My brother has an MG4 long range top spec as a company car, and he is one of the people who drives with the windows open.
He had it for just over three months and complaints that quoted range is very unrealistic and on the same daily route to work, AC takes about 3% extra of Battery charge.