Bye Bye bZ4X .....

[Primus1]

I’m sure that most of us during our motoring lives have experienced the low fuel warning light or the fuel gauge well into the red, and the cold sweat and anxiety thinking you’re going to run out of fuel at any moment, I guess this is an everyday experience with owning an EV. 

[Cyker]

11 hours ago, swoop5511 said:

You’re going to be hard-pressed to find a new car that does not lose 5-figure value in first 6 months. Webuyanycar actually states that, while obviously varying on type/make/model, a new car will lose 15-35% of its value in the first year and up to 50% in the first three years

 

That's normally true, but I think the point was that, right now, used cars are holding their value far better than usual, which makes it stand out that EVs are not following that trend.

Case in point - My Mk4 is currently valued at nearly what I paid for it and it's nearly 2 years old; My friend's Auris hybrid is now worth more than what he paid for it. This very common right now, esp. with hybrids.

Compare that to the OP who's lost a 5 figures and it doesn't look great by comparison.

I do think the manufacturing emissions are being ignored tho' - The new factories being built specifically for Battery and EV production, instead of using existing ones, create a huge amount of emissions, and even if EVs were truly zero emission, that is a big pollution head start that will take many many years to catch up to.

We're effectively gambling on front-loading all the emissions now, and not everyone agrees that's the right way to go, especially since we might all be effectively banned from driving in the not-to distant future by bring priced off the road with all these new charges they're dreaming up!

[Derek.w]

Just how many cars/commercal vehicles do you see in a week pouring out black smoke I can spot 2 a day if I do a long journey.

Electric cars are nice to drive but recharging them is a pain I can live without.

Just name one carpark with chargers in every carpark bay this will help with range anxiety then what about street parking Ha Ha none existent where I live.

Oh how is the goverment changing up to all electric vehicles and leading us all by example.

[Cyker]

Yesh, Mayor KHAAAAN! leading by example in a 300k diesel Range Rover!

[Mojo1010]

12 hours ago, Rav4ster said:

My brother has an MG4 long range top spec as a company car, and he is one of the people who drives with the windows open.
He had it for just over three months and complaints that quoted range is very unrealistic and on the same daily route to work, AC takes about 3% extra of battery charge.
 

 

Have been on the road for approx 4 hours today with my Yaris hybrid, guess what? Had the air con on all that time, hardly used noticeable amount of fuel. No range anxiety. 

[Derek.w]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Yesh, Mayor KHAAAAN! leading by example in a 300k diesel Range Rover!

Exactly my point.

[lightboxcar]

15 hours ago, swoop5511 said:

a new car will lose 15-35% of its value in the first year and up to 50% in the first three years

Historically you are perfectly correct.

On our last visit to the Toyota dealer, they had a two year old RAV 4 PHEV with plenty mileage on the clock

It is / was on sale for £43,000

At present it seems used EV prices are crashing massively compared to non-EV's

[lightboxcar]

16 hours ago, swoop5511 said:

Sorry to hear you’re finding that an EV isn’t for you

As we said right up the top, it's not the cars fault, it was / is a brilliant car, we loved it !

We just absolutely do not trust the charging infrastructure, and that is based on reality, we did try but honestly it scared the heck out of us

[ernieb]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001mwr2/panorama-electric-cars-is-it-time-to-buy

 

Worth looking at, seems a well balanced review of a long trip experience with a BEV. Conclusion, the infrastructure is just not there yet.

[TonyHSD]

Indeed, evs prices are crashing but there are winners too, the used car buyers. We love our ioniq lease car., probably one of the best available ev with great range out of a small Battery, car ahead of its time but mostly accepted by Uber drivers as majority of private car owners class it as Prius and ugly. Anyway this car has lost 50% of its value since 2021, just over two years old which would have been a kill if my gf had it bought privately, but now she has an opportunity to buy a 3 years old full ev , good family size with acceptable range and long warranty for less money than used  Corolla, or even Yaris hybrids. 
Battery gate is getting closer than I thought. It will be an interesting future. And while all that is happening Toyota hybrids are currently one of the most expensive cars in their category and beyond, new or used. And when I bought mine they were the cheapest one. , cheaper than a vw diesel 😂👍

[Cyker]

What gets me is how have they messed up the chargers so badly? We've pretty much figured out electricity at this point, so how have they managed to cock up one of the most reliable forms of energy distribution?!

 

[ernieb]

17 minutes ago, Cyker said:

What gets me is how have they messed up the chargers so badly? We've pretty much figured out electricity at this point, so how have they managed to cock up one of the most reliable forms of energy distribution?!

 

Agreed, I was somewhat surprised that in the BBC program at one point they said that the chargers didn't work because there was no electricity not because they didn't work? 

[ChrisON]

I've had my bz4x Premier for a month.

I'm currently getting about 4 Miles/kWh so in terms of range l have no complaints - so far. In the first couple of weeks the big range difference between aircon on/off was a bit disconcerting but the latest software update has gone a long way to rectifying that. I am very pleased with my bz4x. That said, I'm retired so won't be doing very much in the way of long journeys. I have done two long(ish) trips in the last few weeks, used public chargers (Instavolt) three times and had no problems; expensive but still worked out cheaper than petrol. I also have solar at home; at this time of year it's costing me almost nothing to keep the car charged and that was a significant factor in my choosing a full EV. The bz4x replaced an Outlander PHEV which l thought was a great car and l would have bought a new one without hesitating but that was a non-starter as Mitsubishi seem to have abandoned the UK as far as new cars are concerned.

However l do agree that the public charging infrastructure is lagging behind the goverments ambition of no more ICE vehicles after 2030. Last night's BBC Panorama program about EVs did highlight the issue but the block seems to be getting connections to the grid; they simply can't meet the demand.

While l understand with lightboxcar's reasons for moving his bx4x on l don't think it's that simple and l disagree with that pointless nonsense spouted by Rowan Atkinson.

Chris

 

[leosayer]

1 hour ago, ChrisON said:

I've had my bz4x Premier for a month.

I'm currently getting about 4 Miles/kWh so in terms of range l have no complaints - so far. In the first couple of weeks the big range difference between aircon on/off was a bit disconcerting but the latest software update has gone a long way to rectifying that. I am very pleased with my bz4x. That said, I'm retired so won't be doing very much in the way of long journeys. I have done two long(ish) trips in the last few weeks, used public chargers (Instavolt) three times and had no problems; expensive but still worked out cheaper than petrol. I also have solar at home; at this time of year it's costing me almost nothing to keep the car charged and that was a significant factor in my choosing a full EV. The bz4x replaced an Outlander PHEV which l thought was a great car and l would have bought a new one without hesitating but that was a non-starter as Mitsubishi seem to have abandoned the UK as far as new cars are concerned.

However l do agree that the public charging infrastructure is lagging behind the goverments ambition of no more ICE vehicles after 2030. Last night's BBC Panorama program about EVs did highlight the issue but the block seems to be getting connections to the grid; they simply can't meet the demand.

While l understand with lightboxcar's reasons for moving his bx4x on l don't think it's that simple and l disagree with that pointless nonsense spouted by Rowan Atkinson.

Chris

 

Couldn't agree more with Chris. Based on the same circumstances, I arrive to the same conclusions.

[OldSteve]

I've had my BZ4 AWD for around three months and not had to use a public charger yet. With us an our near neighbours, the last four new cars have all been full electric. Some of them do use public chargers albeit only occasionally, and all say they've never had a problem. My gauge tends to give a range in the 230's and I don't get much short of that. I don't know if it's still got the ridiculously high buffer that was spoken about originally, I've had a letter to book in for a software update but not done it yet, so the range might improve. I did get 5.7kwh on one short journey of a few miles, must have had a good tailwind.

If you can't charge at home, or do much more than 200 miles a day on a regular basis or can't afford it, an EV might not be for you; but I used to quite dislike visiting fuel stations every week or two and am really enjoying not doing it.

I think I should have looked harder at the Solterra as the electric passenger seat is missed more than I thought it would be (Lexus RZ wasn't out and takes a bit of a hit on range with the pokier motors) but generally pretty happy.

 

[Andy BZ4x]

I've also had my AWD for 3 months & have consistantly got 230 miles, software update done & hot weather, range now suggesting 250 - 255 miles.

I drive 100-150 miles a day & charge at home, I am visiting North Devon over the next couple of weeks for a holiday & based on my last experience of North Devon we will be taking my wife's Petrol Nissan Note.

In the town where i live there is a car park with 14 EV chargers - 12 reserved for council workers but these never get used, & 2 in disabled bays. (No where for an able bodied non council worker to charge)

As a company car driver an EV is a must due to the huge reduction in benefit in kind verses a diesel, my last company car was a Landrover discover sport & since changing to the BZ4X my MONTHLY income tax has dropped by approx £420 per month, I have the same car for 4 years at a time so that is a massive £20k extra in my pocket over a 4 year period - no that's got to be worth a little bit of inconvienence. 

[Mister Mike]

On 6/13/2023 at 6:54 AM, ernieb said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001mwr2/panorama-electric-cars-is-it-time-to-buy

 

Worth looking at, seems a well balanced review of a long trip experience with a BEV. Conclusion, the infrastructure is just not there yet.

I watched that programme on TV yesterday. It gave me the newbie-jeebies when the presenter interviewed a woman charging her car parked on the pavement, blocking pedestrian access. And using a 3-pin 240V charger! She seemed happy enough, but it probably takes the best part of 24 hours to charge her car that way. I'm surprised he didn't ask her about that.

[Corollanutter]

On 6/13/2023 at 12:33 AM, lightboxcar said:

Historically you are perfectly correct.

On our last visit to the Toyota dealer, they had a two year old RAV 4 PHEV with plenty mileage on the clock

It is / was on sale for £43,000

At present it seems used EV prices are crashing massively compared to non-EV's

Agreed - our Corolla TS was £32k when new (2019), we purchased it at two years old (2021) for £20K - and two years later it is still worth £20 - if not a bit more.  We are living in very distorted times....

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, Mister Mike said:

I watched that programme on TV yesterday. It gave me the newbie-jeebies when the presenter interviewed a woman charging her car parked on the pavement, blocking pedestrian access. And using a 3-pin 240V charger! She seemed happy enough, but it probably takes the best part of 24 hours to charge her car that way. I'm surprised he didn't ask her about that.

I suspect she won't for long; Once the ambulance chasers figure out where she is I bet she'll be getting sued by a small army of people 'tripping' over the cable!  

 

On 6/13/2023 at 3:49 PM, Andy BZ4x said:

As a company car driver an EV is a must due to the huge reduction in benefit in kind verses a diesel, my last company car was a Landrover discover sport & since changing to the BZ4X my MONTHLY income tax has dropped by approx £420 per month, I have the same car for 4 years at a time so that is a massive £20k extra in my pocket over a 4 year period - no that's got to be worth a little bit of inconvienence. 

I think that's where it really works, esp. if your employer has free or low-cost charging facilities so charging at home isn't as critical.

The BIK savings and access to company-sponsored power make the economics very favourable.

 

[Mo P]

Must chip in here.

Had car software updated a couple of weeks ago.

I get to my sons place in Warwick from Brighton in around 2 hours (so not hanging around) and after 150 miles drive, range left suggests 107 miles.

I've charged at Tesla at Banbury, and Osprey with no problems (just to check all working ok, no needing a charge)

I've also charged at McDonalds without issues.

Using aircon now looks to have minimal effect on range. Funnily the car does seem to cool even without the aircon on?

 

[philip42h]

I trust that folk aren't confusing improved range due to the warmer (hot) weather with anything that the software update might have done?

1 hour ago, Mo P said:

I get to my sons place in Warwick from Brighton in around 2 hours (so not hanging around) and after 150 miles drive, range left suggests 107 miles.

Toyota's own range estimation for a FWD Motion at 25 degrees suggests a range of 285 miles combined or 215 miles motorway (aircon off). So an apparent 257 miles seems completely as should be expected (and reasonably achievable with aircon on).

(And won't be the case when we get back down to 5 degrees next winter!)

 

 

[yossarian247]

Surely the answer to all of this is to do what a household who live not far from me do? The 'More-Money-Than-Sense' family as I call them.

They have two Teslas almost permanently on charge in their driveway, then whilst the Teslas are on charge they have a diesel 5 series BMW and a petrol Aston Martin which they drive around in. See there's always a simple solution when you're loaded, it seems.

[Mo P]

To follow up on the my addition, I travelled to Warwick on a regular basis and have been doing so since picking the car up in October 2022 so have experience of range/temp/distance/speed etc etc, I have nearly 9000 mils on clock now ( I use for work too)

Before update, in October 2022 so not winter, max shown on dash was just over 200 so with the software update a definite difference.

Since update dash shows around 285 depending on previous trips (as ICE readouts change too)

Recent drives to Warwick have been early morning so no where near 25 degrees (and drives back at around 8.00pm) 

One thing I have found out recently (others please check) without air con on, and at 28 degrees outside the fan still blows cold with Auto and ECO selected.

So I'm a windows up man!

[Audrius1970]

Sorry, a bit late for party, and just wanted share my different expirence...

I drove 27 years ICE cars, over 15 cars (I like change cars now and then-thats my way of life). Not a single month without problem-always smth leaking... oil, oil, oil-from motor, from gearbox, from brake-from everywhere. Always cold at journey start, always exhaust smell-cant hide from it nowhere, alway noisy and underpowered.

2 years ago I got Nissan Leaf, no driveway, no home charger-was probably stupidly brave on my part. First 3 months cant shake feeling, left after ICE cars- "it will be this morning when problems will start and I cant drive my daughter to school". Probably again oil, Battery, smoke from exhaust or another fancy red light on dashboard.

To my suprise-no, nothing, I just sit in already warm car and just... drive! Quiet and pleasant, I just push ACC button, relax my legs and enjoy music. Took me maybe whole year till my ICE cars reliability anxiety gone. Wow, thought- that how cars should work-just sit and drive. And instant acceleration power, no delay-oh boy! 🥳

Then comes fuel price. I compared my expenses on electricity on Leaf app with fuelly website on previuos underpowered Honda Jazz (41 mpg average petrol). EV -less than half my prev expenses, even meaning 2y ago fuel was cheaper and electricity is now VERY expensive.

Last year I traveled a lot to airports. Yes first 2-3 trips was unpleasant expierence with UK charging network-its trully rubbish. But then I start use apps, planners and after learning curve-how and where, journey become easy-peasy. I say more, those extra 10-25 minutes at chargers (after toilets and snaks for family) near nature give me joy to sit on bench near trees and chat with my kids instead of running like crazy everywhere.

My wife and teenager son are ICE evangelists and they wanted this year swap to hybrid. So I offered a deal -if they can hold bladder for 3-4 hours on motorway journey, we will go for it. Ended up ordering bz4x EV this week 😀

I charge my Leaf from 3 pin socket-26p/kWh atm. Took some adjustments-change of socket and buy industrial extention lead. Charging about twice per week overnight and get in winter like 120-130mi city range, and 95-110mi motorway. I can only imagine what improvement will be bz4x.

P.S. about open cars windows-weirdly enough I noticed in my city only ICE cars drive with open windows. My guess because smoking in car, otherwise makes no point-its not saving fuel, its wasting from air drag. In my EV I open windows only in summer to get some fresh air from ouside, till my kids start coughing from ICE cars fumes in traffic or at traffic lights.

[srt]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:18 PM, lightboxcar said:

With great sadness we have parted with our lovely bZ4X after only six months of use.

We have suffered a substantial five figure loss.

It is a great shame, as the car was brilliant in so many ways.  Quiet, comfortable, super good road holding, a great infotainment system, and more...

The entertainer Rowan Atkinson says he feels duped by electric cars :

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/rowan-atkinson-feels-duped-by-electric-cars-and-believes-used-cars-are-the-future/285057

Whatever Rowan's reasons are , here is our reasoning :

1.  Absolutely unviable charging infrastructure

broken chargers that just do not work

chargers located where there is no phone signal

major motorway service stations with only two chargers for 1000 plus cars

chargers that only work with certain cars, and more...

2.  Range:  we NEVER achieved anything close the claimed range, even in warm weather, ECO mode, no AC etc. and very careful driving.  Our best was about 180 miles vs WLTP of 285.

3.  Energy costs:  these have risen hugely, the cost of charging an EV at public chargers, if you can find a working one, is now considerably more expensive than petrol.

4.  Car Tax: despite offering incentives with zero road tax, this will now end in about 18 months and the car will be liable for road tax

To be honest we could live with the range, in practice with care and planning, it was workable.

The car tax was always going to happen and is perhaps only fair to other ICE owners.

Even with massive increase in energy costs since we ordered the car in early 2022, the hope would be they would reduce again over time.

But the deal breaker was not being able to reliably know you could get the car charged on the move.

A car is for convenience, safety, reliability and of course driving pleasure.

When is becomes nothing but stress and worry, and not being able to reliably know you can safely reach your destination, then you have to admit defeat, and a lesson ( expensive lesson ) learned.

The silver lining is our new RAV4 PHEV is amazing !!

Enjoy your Rav4 PHEV, it's better car than the BZ4X. Roomier, faster, can tow a small caravan, less depreciation + it has a glovebox and the drivers display is not blocked by the steering wheel (poor design from Toyota).