Sell or repair dilemma

[Algx]

I have the dreaded EPB fault light on the dash. Had this traced to a C13AB error to do with the tension sensor in the EPB.

All the brake calipers disks pads etc are fine and the EPB works when the car is first turned on but gives the error when retracted, then refuses to activate until the engine is switched off/on. So I assume this would fail an MOT.

The car has only done 78k which for a 2010 Avensis is very low.  The cost, as many are painfully aware is likely to be close to £2k add to that £240 car tax and I have to question whether it's worth the expense.  I've had the car 11 years and it's been 100% reliable so it's galling that something that should be cheap and straightforward is such a nightmare and expense.

What are peoples thoughts, the cars getting older and likely to develop more faults but new cars have their gremlins too.  So all opinions or insights are welcome.

[Bper]

Hi Alex,

Without repair would you be able to sell the car, if not then it's catch 22 repair or sell. But trying to sell without the repair would this make the car unsaleable. If the cost of repair make's it prohibitive and as it is a known problem I would obtain a couple of prices and then weigh the options.👍

[flash22]

As i have posted in other threads, have a read

http://www.surreyelectronics.com/leaflets/TOYOTA AVENSIS ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKE SYSTEM.pdf

 

[flash22]

C13AB is EPB switch issue, something been spilt in the car ?? Remove the switch and pop it apart and clean it

http://zatonevkredit.ru/repair_manuals/raw_content/RM1000000013CJY.xml

[Derek.w]

I always check split & repair my switches if feasible and if you snap a lug off game is not over consider glue it back together or glueing a patch over it recheck operation mechanical & electrical before refitting.

[Auris James]

Check the switch wiring and make sure no loose wiring or damaged. If cleaning wont work then a used switch would be worth a try. No idea if need coding/programming to car but 2k is crazy.

Good luck with it.

James.

[2009joe]

10 hours ago, Auris James said:

Check the switch wiring and make sure no loose wiring or damaged. If cleaning wont work then a used switch would be worth a try. No idea if need coding/programming to car but 2k is crazy.

Good luck with it.

James.

Quick question when you say check the wiring is that from the push button handbrake in the car and to the fuze board  right to the epb module in the back .is that not a huge job and tough to do 

[Konrad C]

This is a no win situation due to the cost. I wonder if one of the cables are causing issues. I have been very wary of puddles, so try to avoid as much as possible. Water and electronic circuit boards are not a good mix. I have seen companies that repair different car electronics and even seen repairs on YouTube -  https://www.youtube.com/@LMAutoRepairs

Since your car is the 1.8 Valvematic, it is worth more than the diesels, due to the low emission zones! If the car was say 7 years old and I intend to keep, I would fix.

One thing I would check and this is simple - if the rear pads have been replaced, has the pistons been wound back, so the cut outs in the piston line up with protrusion/nipple on the rear of the inner pads? Such a simple and easy thing to overlook. 

Now I just watched a serious of videos on a wet timing belt replacement of the Ford Ecoboost (Ecoboom) engine. It is so involved that it an cost up to £2000! Worse still, if the owner does not service the car regularly and use the specific engine oil, the belt will break up and the bits will clog the oil strainer of the oil pump, causing oil starvation to the engine. A lot of things are getting complicated and expensive, meaning things will end up scrapped due to cost of repair! 

[Algx]

Thanks for all the responses.

Flash22 really impressed you managed to find all these resources. I spent a day and a half trawling the net to find anything to give me a clue as to how to resolve this issue.  It was like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

What annoys me the most is that Toyota are clearly aware of the water ingress issue but have done nothing to help owners. In fact they must've made a fortune charging £900 for the part alone.  They are not even trying to meet owners half way, all this hassle and expense for what can be done with a simple lever, it beggars belief.

I've been looking at other vehicles to replace the Avensis and many are fitted with EPBs and when checking on their respective forums, low and behold dozens of problems regarding these wonderful devices.  Yet still they fit them!

[Algx]

Konrad C, yes the seemingly endless complexity that we are forced to pay for whether we need it or not is becoming a major issue.

My wife has just bought a Peugeot 208 with the three cylinder engine and I couldn't believe how much oil it consumes.  I read up on it and apparently this is considered normal, which is crazy.  It also has a timing belt issue that sounds very similar to the Fords you describe.  Along with this it's has issues with engine mounts as it is inherently unbalanced.

So it's a !Removed! minefield trying to decide on a suitable replacement estate car.

 

[MrAurisT]

1 hour ago, Algx said:

Konrad C, yes the seemingly endless complexity that we are forced to pay for whether we need it or not is becoming a major issue.

My wife has just bought a Peugeot 208 with the three cylinder engine and I couldn't believe how much oil it consumes.  I read up on it and apparently this is considered normal, which is crazy.  It also has a timing belt issue that sounds very similar to the Fords you describe.  Along with this it's has issues with engine mounts as it is inherently unbalanced.

So it's a !Removed! minefield trying to decide on a suitable replacement estate car.

 

I could not agree more. When I was looking to replace my 2008 X Type Jaguar 2.0d estate (pretty simple mechanically, bodywork rusts) I researched until I came to the conclusion that the 'newer' cars are just fraught with a minefield of issues. Konrad's note above regarding the Ford 'Ecoboom', as well as your examples, are a case in point. I came to the conclusion that I would buy an 'older' estate car and whittled that down to the Toyota Avensis 1.8 Valvematic which suited all my requirements (reliable, relatively simple and uncomplex as a petrol, good MPG, spacious and comfortable). Newer cars, petrol or (especially) diesels are (from around 2014) so strangled by emissions constraints its a wonder they work!

[Algx]

Yes up until this point in time the Avensis has been a joy to own, which of cause makes this EPB issue a real dilemma.

Unfortunately the EPB has spread like a virus through modern cars and there are only a few that are unaffected.  Add to this the miriad of other 'essential' accessories that we are forced to purchase all seemingly reporting back to the ECU when they are not happy with their lot, resulting in another trip to the garage.

I spoke about this to the technician that diagnosed the EPB problem and he said it's getting worse because manufacturers are putting security blocks into the software stopping 3rd parties even accessing the ECU.

Happy days!

 

[TonyHSD]

If me I will try anything possible to repair as diy or with a help of mechanic, independent garage and save big on the Toyota dealer original price. Generally speaking cars after certain age and miles should not go to dealer for anything  but oem parts. Repairs out of warrant these days are crazy expensive.  
First thing before any further  investment will be corrosion assessment and see if it’s worth spending money on. However if there is no bad corrosion and  in good mechanical condition I will fix it and keep it for few more years. 
Cars field it’s very dynamic these days and there might be new surprises soon like new restrictions, new rules ,new bans  new power sources, fuels etc. if not a must have a new one then better repair and withhold your car you already own until more clear future has arrive. 

[flash22]

Sort out that switch, it is not insurmountable even if it's just a switch replacement

Not all EPB systems are the same, the likes of the Mk12 corolla and Mk4 Yaris use a motor on caliper its a simple 2 wire setup, no cables or single point of failure, and no exposed electronics

[2009joe]

6 hours ago, Konrad C said:

This is a no win situation due to the cost. I wonder if one of the cables are causing issues. I have been very wary of puddles, so try to avoid as much as possible. Water and electronic circuit boards are not a good mix. I have seen companies that repair different car electronics and even seen repairs on YouTube -  https://www.youtube.com/@LMAutoRepairs

Since your car is the 1.8 Valvematic, it is worth more than the diesels, due to the low emission zones! If the car was say 7 years old and I intend to keep, I would fix.

One thing I would check and this is simple - if the rear pads have been replaced, has the pistons been wound back, so the cut outs in the piston line up with protrusion/nipple on the rear of the inner pads? Such a simple and easy thing to overlook. 

Now I just watched a serious of videos on a wet timing belt replacement of the Ford Ecoboost (Ecoboom) engine. It is so involved that it an cost up to £2000! Worse still, if the owner does not service the car regularly and use the specific engine oil, the belt will break up and the bits will clog the oil strainer of the oil pump, causing oil starvation to the engine. A lot of things are getting complicated and expensive, meaning things will end up scrapped due to cost of repair! 

Is it easy to drill a hole in bottom of the car and put that module inside the car some way .tbh I would rather have a hole in the bottom of the car with those rubber gromits in than that expensive module would rather have it in the car itself .is this possible as well tbh I would love to try it .plus another thing with electrical things and temperature could cause rust etc to build up on the circuit board 

[Algx]

Thanks for all the input folks, it's all food for thought.

I am inclined to try and find a fault in the switches if things are accessible. As for the actuator unit, it is a sealed unit to all intents and purpose, certainly not designed to access readily as it's designed to be replaced at great expense.  It resides in a really inaccessible spot so that you need the car well elevated to a access. I can't achieve this on my driveway.

Add to this the diagnostic aspect with the need for the right software etc and it gets even more complicated.  

It's a pity no one ever made a retrofit kit to replace the whole thing with a simple handbrake. 

[Algx]

Just a thought, has anyone ever had to use the emergency wind back tool?

I wonder if you could utilise this with some kind of winding mechanism and bypass the EPB altogether.

[flash22]

18 hours ago, Algx said:

Just a thought, has anyone ever had to use the emergency wind back tool?

I wonder if you could utilise this with some kind of winding mechanism and bypass the EPB altogether.

Fully closed to open is IIRC 600-800 turns

sort the switch out and go from there