Auto Yaris

[sproutdreamer]

I am looking for a Yaris but am wary of the MMT auto box due to its reputation as not so good and expensive to fix. To avoid the MMT I have been looking at 2004 but most are high mileage and expensive for such an old car and the post 2011 (CVT) are more than I want to pay for a second car.

So my question is whether the MMT is really so bad regarding reliability and is there a mileage aspect to MMT problems that can be avoided by buying a very low mileage car?

[paul9]

I think most MMT systems get a bad reputation, but I never had any trouble with mine on my "semi-auto" Astra. After I learned of the reputation, quite a while after buying the car, I did get a bit of anxiety over my "ticking time-bomb" whilst my box and clutch performed almost flawlessly. Almost? Well, there were maybe two or three instances of very slow/hesitant switching from neutral to first when pulling out from a stop at lights or a roundabout. I haven't experienced the Toyota MMT, but I suspect it may be a case of they are slightly less reliable, but more noise is made over the failures, so a bit of confirmation bias against them will creep in and make things look worse than they actually are. Also, they tend to pick up a reputation of being harder and more expensive to service and repair. From my current personal experience of one (1) MMT system, I wouldn't let it put me off too much. However, other people may have horror stories of their experience, or maybe just an irrational bias to share from hearing about how bad MMT systems are from other people. I haven't really noticed any of the auto repair channels I watch on Youtube condemning MMT systems for being bad, or welcoming them into their garage as lots of steady work to earn money from.

[Mojo1010]

My relative had the MMT problem in the Yaris MK2, had to replace or scrap the car - I don't recall. I would say avoid. There are other Japanese brands to consider. 

[TonyHSD]

I had mmt colt and was just not nice to drive. Even the guy who bought off me said that only taking it because he had traveled long distance and he liked the car in general but he did not expected  to be such a horrible drive. Perhaps dsg from vw and Mercedes’ bmw has much better mmt at least as driving experience and again they bring nothing but trouble.
These transmissions are really to be avoided. 
Positive side: 

1. It’s automatic 

Negative side: 

1. Not nice to drive

2. They do fail often, it is true no doubt about it 

3. They have clutch kit to replace with age and mileage, no other way around and in many cases cost more than clutch on manual transmission 

4. They do have electronics who cause problems, expensive to fix  and often are excluded from used car warranty too

5. Mmt area very good for slow traffic and manoeuvres, something that many people prefer to drive auto cars. 

 

[flash22]

2002 onwards are a mix of MMT (usually 1.0) and traditional auto (1.3, usually a GLS spec) an MMT issue is likely to kill a 20 year old car, a clutch will be the thick end of £800, recon shift and clutch actuators run £200-300 each, at main stealer prices that's £1800+

 

what is your budget ?

[TonyHSD]

8 minutes ago, flash22 said:

2002 onwards are a mix of MMT (usually 1.0) and traditional auto (1.3, usually a GLS spec) an MMT issue is likely to kill a 20 year old car, a clutch will be the thick end of £800, recon shift and clutch actuators run £200-300 each, at main stealer prices that's £1800+

 

what is your budget ?

Are the traditional auto any good ? Thanks 

[flash22]

Never had an issue with any standard auto, just inspect the fluid and do a filter change, semi autos on the other hand the vx/opel easytronic is utter junk they do not age well, but makes the MMT look like a masterpiece of engineering

[Cyker]

I've never liked automatics generally, but my least dis-liked type has always been the 'normal' torque converter type - They are by far the most robust and reliable type of autobox.

The main reason they fell out of fashion is they are very lossy unless they are the locking type, so higher fuel consumption and emissions, which is a no-no in the current climate. (*badum tissss* )

I've always hated automated manuals, both single and double clutch type, as they are horrible when trying to do lots of sub-idle speed manoeuvres, and all the ones I've used had an engagement delay from a standstill, which means you need much bigger margins when e.g. getting on a roundabout.

CVTs were just awful in every way - The engine disconnect was very disconcerting and they were expensive due to being effectively dealer-only maintenance/repair, and they had terrible reliability.

This has changed with Toyota, as they have somehow made the CVT reliable and have begun to reverse the reputation it had before - The Toyota CVT has so far been one of the most reliable autoboxes on the market; I can't recall seeing anyone with a problem with one on this forum and that's a minor miracle!

 

re. the MMT, I'd definitely recommend avoiding it - There have been so many posts about them from people with problems over the years it's almost guaranteed you'll have an issue at some point.

The majority of people who didn't have a problem with them, it turns out they only used it in manual mode!

 

[flash22]

Modern slush box autos are far more refined than the old mechanical autos, cvt's get bad press thanks to the dreaded Nissan/Jatco mess

[paul9]

So far, only Tony and Cyker have mentioned actual personal experience of MMT use/ownership. They didn't like it, but never mentioned it being unreliable in their experience. The rest are so far relatives and forum post experience. A friend of a friend said theirs was a disaster, so they must all be a disaster? I did like the drive on mine, but will admit my Mercedes torque converter auto gives me more fuzzy feelings than the Astra Easytronic did. Just trying to understand why there is so much bad opinion with so little personal experience. My experience seems not to have been the norm, judging from current replies to this thread. I had a standard manual box with bearings worn so much they were squared off (old Capri) and a less than 80k miles, eight year old Punto gearbox burst apart. Those were the worst gearboxes I personally recall, and both were manual with manual clutch. The Punto had two clutch replacements while I had it, but probably my driving bad habits. My Avensis D4D manual box was not much fun to use, but that had been an ex-taxi and improved considerably when I changed the gear oil.

[MikeSh]

We had a Yaris mk2 MMT for a good few years and though quite weird to drive at first it was never a problem reliability wise (though I did keep an eye on the forum for info in the event it was).

I also had a Vauxhall van with MMT for a few years which was better in feel than the Yaris but did scare me once by throwing a fault and refusing to go.  Luckily turning it off and on again fixed it and it was a one off problem. 

My wife can only drive automatic, so we have about 4 decades of experience over many types and my only concern is that once the warranty (original or used car) has gone repairs could be expensive, so I tend to not keep them as long as I might a manual. 

That said,  the only failures I've had (so far)  is a torque convertor on a Volvo 240 (which was covered on a dealer's used car warranty) and a magnetic clutch on a Nissan Micra. TBH I'd probably have had as much trouble with manual transmissions in that time,  so ...

[Guest]

I briefly owned a Mk 2 D4-D(excellent engine) with MMT. I couldn't get along with it. I didn't own it long enough for any mechanical issues to materialise, after all it's a "conventional" gearbox with the clutch and changes operated by electric motors.

The problem, I found, was that the computer controlling it all was, to put it bluntly, stupid and totally illogical. I ended up driving in M (mode) all the time which sort of defeats it's purpose.

Just two examples - driving up a steep hill, it would initially change down a gear, then for no reason change up and labour or almost stall the engine. That required manual intervention. Entering a roundabout or moving off from traffic lights it would randomly remain in first gear much to the annoyance of other road users. Again requiring manual intervention.

I now own a Multimode (CVT) which, not to everyone's taste, is much better.

[flash22]

I have driven a few MMT's including a 2002 Daihatsu all smaller CC car's < 1.4, the bigger engined cars seem to have better built MMT's

age is not a mmt's friend

Smart cars have a dire semi auto slow and dim witted

[MikeSh]

6 hours ago, flash22 said:

Smart cars have a dire semi auto slow and dim witted

Depends on the model I suspect. Our 2016 has a very effective DCT married to a t/c 900cc engine.

[Cyker]

8 hours ago, flash22 said:

I have driven a few MMT's including a 2002 Daihatsu all smaller CC car's < 1.4, the bigger engined cars seem to have better built MMT's

age is not a mmt's friend

Smart cars have a dire semi auto slow and dim witted

That's a good point actually - I noticed people on this forum with bigger engines had less issues with the MMT for some reason; By far the most complaints were from people with smaller engines, mainly Aygo and Yaris owners!

 

[sproutdreamer]

Thanks for all the info I will have to give a Yaris a miss as my budget £4-7k is plenty for a 04 model but then there are rust issues and not enough for a 2012 model without accepting a high mileage. Prices of thes esmall cars has gone crazy. We sold an04 Yaris t sprit in 2018 for £1600 which was a good price then, the same sort of 04 car now is £3.5-4k now.

[TonyHSD]

Indeed. Used car prices are unreal and the quality of the cars is beyond imagination. Money has definitely lost over 30-40% of its value since 2016. 
Currently unless must have buying a car is not ideal, used or new. And if it’s a must have brand new are better although crazy expensive too. 

[Cyker]

Yeah it's partly things like ULEZ but also there is a shortage of small cars as manufacturers are making less of them in favour of mobile road obstructions (i.e. SUVs). Inflation also not helping...

But don't immediately discount high-mileage Toyotas - As long as they've been looked after, Toyotas tend to last a lot longer than a lot of other manufacturer cars with no major issues. The engines of the various Yarisusiesueieeses generally outlast the rest of the car!

[Rhymes with Paris]

43 minutes ago, Cyker said:

engines of the various Yarisusiesueieeses generally outlast the rest of the car!

Too right 👍