Updated/facelifted RAV 4 PHEV ??

[HSDish]

Is there any indication that there will be an updated/facelifted RAV 4 PHEV with bigger and/or more efficent traction Battery with faster charging capabilities , in ther nearest future?

[philip42h]

If you discount all the wild speculation and rumour mongering on the interweb from those who seek fame but know nothing, then 'no' ... 😉

I have seen a clip from a guy working for Toyota in Canada describe next year's RAV4 as a straight carry-over - i.e. not even a face lift RAV4.5.5 let alone a full 4.6 - and I'm inclined to believe that.

As normal there will be minor spec and price changes for MY24 but I don't expect to see much else.

PS. I know nothing either but at least I don't seek fame! 🙂

[Broadway One]

Hi...interesting post.

I also wonder re future for PHEV's particularly RAV 4's

I'm 2 years in & remain a fervent fan of the ICE/EV mix & marque.
Many accuse us PHEVer's of sitting on the fence but I would counter with the mess the transition to EV's is panning out the cause. The RAV suits my needs living in the North West in an apartment block, just 2 on site EV charge points, no regular commute,  mainly suburban journeys, interspersed with ad hoc longer stress free trips. However an increased EV range say 75/100mls. would be utopia. The Toyota RAV, my 5th. has allowed me to sample the EV experience, a great success; I'm hooked.

So many mixed messages emanating from Westminster, the auto industry must be frazzled. PHEV's are still being introduced at scale from many manufacturers, committing tens of £m's. Who knows where this is all going ?

Barry Wright, Lancashire.

 

                

[HSDish]

Tried to quote to philip42h serveras times, from MyT Phone, but something went wrong. I,ll test later from MyT computer

[HSDish]

Try this Way.

Thanks philip42h. 

I suspected that. 

Pitty!

We realy like our 2020 RAV 4 PHEV but we would realy have use for faster charge capabilities.

I've tested at least 40 charging points with 22- 7,5 - 3,5 kWh speed and both 1 and 3 phases, but just manage to charge at 6,5 kWh speed on one/1 chargingpoint. All others charge at 3,5 speed at the best. About 4,5 h from empty to full.

Ability to pre heat seats with MyT app would be nice. We got ventilated seats and we can pre cool them from app but not heat.

Would be nice to manage adjusting hight on pasenger seat to

[YarisHybrid2016]

Some manufacturers are dropping PHEV from their line-up. They are the more complex/more expensive to build.

HEV and EV have their market share, and by now those who would opt for PHEV would likely go the EV route.

I was interested in the PHEV Prius (UK), but they've dropped it completely, and with newer model HEV getting the Li-Ion Battery, there is almost no benefit to the PHEV model at all.

The cost/benefit of EVs doesn't work for me at all. Nearly as expensive to recharge vs. gasoline, and higher initial purchase price.

[philip42h]

52 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

HEV and EV have their market share, and by now those who would opt for PHEV would likely go the EV route.

Not at all. The HEV has zero EV range - it's merely a more efficient ICE. Affordable EVs are still limited on range and the charging infrastructure isn't yet adequate. So I'd definitely have a PHEV as my next car - a 20-50 miles EV range would be just fine as that would cover all my 'short' journeys ...

16 hours ago, HSDish said:

We realy like our 2020 RAV 4 PHEV but we would realy have use for faster charge capabilities.

I've tested at least 40 charging points with 22- 7,5 - 3,5 kWh speed and both 1 and 3 phases, but just manage to charge at 6,5 kWh speed on one/1 chargingpoint. All others charge at 3,5 speed at the best. About 4,5 h from empty to full.

You are just being greedy! 🙂

IIRC you have a 6.6kW onboard charger. I guess that Toyota could uprate that to the same 11kW charger fitted to the bZ4X to speed things up a bit but surely the intention is that you charge it 'slowly' overnight? There's no need to charge on the go - you have the hybrid ICE for that ... 😉

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

Some manufacturers are dropping PHEV from their line-up. They are the more complex/more expensive to build.

HEV and EV have their market share, and by now those who would opt for PHEV would likely go the EV route.

 

Totally disagree. There are many manufacturers introducing PHEV’s such as Honda or additional PHEV ranges such as Toyota. An EV simply does not work for me and if my next car is a choice between BEV or (hybrid) ICE, it will be the latter. 

[Broadway One]

9 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

HEV and EV have their market share, and by now those who would opt for PHEV would likely go the EV route.

Hi....Certainly not in my case.

Many are still purchasing ICE vehicles, IMO PHEV's fall in the same category, the window is stretching due to mixed messages from Westminster, it's a mess. There are 1000's of retirees like me who don't live in greater London. Living in the suburbs & totally rely on the car. I have no access to workplace charging. The apartment block where I live lacks the infrastructure to support individual parking bay charge points, therefore never likely to happen. Just two 7kw sockets to the rear of a small visitors car park for 50 apartments is hardly sufficient. Using the public network in a word would be HASSLE !  The PHEV allows me to enjoy the EV experience without worry, long may it last.

Barry Wright, Lancashire.

                 

 

[Cyker]

I think PHEVs are more for people that like the idea of EVs but don't want the range limitations - Like EVs, if you can charge at home, they make a lot of sense, and don't have the downsides of EVs, mainly they can do the long distances in a pinch without having to pre-plan and factor in charging stops.

They will also likely be the last kind of ICE vehicles we'll be able to buy, since they have a 5 year extension (Assuming they don't change that again).

 

[ernieb]

My PHEV works well for me as an EV for probably 80% of the time. I'm able to use a simple granny charger and an overnight charge works with my driving needs. My local trips rarely use the ICE and if it fires it's more likely me forcing it to fire so that the ICE has time to warm before I get to my destination.  I'm not likely to change this car anytime soon but if I did it would be another PHEV.

[Oscarmax]

9 hours ago, Cyker said:

I think PHEVs are more for people that like the idea of EVs but don't want the range limitations - Like EVs, if you can charge at home, they make a lot of sense, and don't have the downsides of EVs, mainly they can do the long distances in a pinch without having to pre-plan and factor in charging stops.

They will also likely be the last kind of ICE vehicles we'll be able to buy, since they have a 5 year extension (Assuming they don't change that again).

 

You have just identified me, we have solar panels, solar Battery and an EV charger.

[nlee]

On 7/22/2023 at 3:42 PM, HSDish said:

I've tested at least 40 charging points with 22- 7,5 - 3,5 kWh speed and both 1 and 3 phases, but just manage to charge at 6,5 kWh speed on one/1 chargingpoint. All others charge at 3,5 speed at the best. About 4,5 h from empty to full.

Maximum AC charge rate will be 6.8kw because that is the size of the onboard AC to DC charger.

Obviously 3.5kw supply will only charge at that. 7kw should give the full 6.8kw charge rate, 21, the same because it's 3 phases of 7kw. You'll notice the pins for the 2nd and 3rd phases are missing from the charging socket. Hence if you use a 14kw charger, 3.5kw (ish) x 3 phases, you'll only get 3.5 kW.

[HSDish]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:16 AM, YarisHybrid2016 said:

Some manufacturers are dropping PHEV from their line-up. They are the more complex/more expensive to build.

HEV and EV have their market share, and by now those who would opt for PHEV would likely go the EV route.

I was interested in the PHEV Prius (UK), but they've dropped it completely, and with newer model HEV getting the Li-Ion battery, there is almost no benefit to the PHEV model at all.

The cost/benefit of EVs doesn't work for me at all. Nearly as expensive to recharge vs. gasoline, and higher initial purchase price.

I think, like "Flatcoat" and "Broadway One" talks about, that many manufactures/brands develope new PHEV and some , as for example Mercedes and VW (passat) comes with longer range and faster charging

[HSDish]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:20 AM, philip42h said:

Not at all. The HEV has zero EV range - it's merely a more efficient ICE. Affordable EVs are still limited on range and the charging infrastructure isn't yet adequate. So I'd definitely have a PHEV as my next car - a 20-50 miles EV range would be just fine as that would cover all my 'short' journeys ...

You are just being greedy! 🙂

IIRC you have a 6.6kW onboard charger. I guess that Toyota could uprate that to the same 11kW charger fitted to the bZ4X to speed things up a bit but surely the intention is that you charge it 'slowly' overnight? There's no need to charge on the go - you have the hybrid ICE for that ... 😉

🙂 I have to admit that theres maybe some tiny little bit of greed involved 🙂

If we just had acess to a better chargingpoint (so we could use the onboard 6.7 kWh charger optimal), it would help a lot.

Me and my wife works about 50 h / a week each and use to alternate between working early morning to AM and early PM and early PM to late night and some 3-4 days a week my wife drives our RAV 4 PHEV for about 80% of the EV range in the morning-AM and I would like to drive about the same distance PM-late night but ,as for now, it takes to long time to charge the car for 80% more.

We have driven our PHEV for about 1,5 year ( 53 500 km / 33 243.3588 miles) and our MyT says we driven 76% (time) and 62% range/distance in EV mode and it would be nice to be able to increas that

Were living in a rented appartment and got everyday charing possibilities but they are a bit limited in speed.

Wrote some about it here

 

 

[kucyk]

In fairness, the RAV4 Plug-in has one of the fastest, if not the fastest, charger on board among all plug-in hybrids available.

If you want to increase your EV distance, you should buy an electric car 😇

[HSDish]

Another advantage with PHEV is the possibility to pre heat/ cool car cabin from MyT which I dont think is possible in Standard RAV 4 hybrid

[HSDish]

33 minutes ago, kucyk said:

In fairness, the RAV4 Plug-in has one of the fastest, if not the fastest, charger on board among all plug-in hybrids available.

If you want to increase your EV distance, you should buy an electric car 😇

🙂 we have looked at and tested bz4x but it doesnt quite suits our needs 

[philip42h]

4 hours ago, HSDish said:

If we just had access to a better charging point (so we could use the onboard 6.7 kWh charger optimal), it would help a lot.

Me and my wife works about 50 h / a week each and use to alternate between working early morning to AM and early PM and early PM to late night and some 3-4 days a week my wife drives our RAV 4 PHEV for about 80% of the EV range in the morning-AM and I would like to drive about the same distance PM-late night but ,as for now, it takes too long time to charge the car for 80% more.

We're living in a rented apartment and got everyday charging possibilities but they are a bit limited in speed.

Wrote some about it here ...

You make a good case ... 🙂

At least part of your problem is down to the available EV charging points rather than limitations with the car. And we discussed the charging speeds you were achieving previously, but Nigel has clarified the limitation that you currently have:

8 hours ago, nlee said:

You'll notice the pins for the 2nd and 3rd phases are missing from the charging socket.

I.e. the car is equipped with a single-phase onboard charger. If you use a 3-phase, 11kW charger you will be able to use only one of its three phases and thus are limited to 11/3 = 3.5kw (nominally). You'd do better with a single phase 7kW charger (or, of course, a three phase 22kW charger to get back to 7kW again).

It would probably help if Toyota were to fit the same 11kW three phase onboard charger that they supply with the bZ4X - and then, of course, you would need to find a correspondingly uprated supply.

I can't really see Toyota equipping the PHEV with rapid DC charging.

[HSDish]

5 hours ago, philip42h said:

You make a good case ... 🙂

At least part of your problem is down to the available EV charging points rather than limitations with the car. And we discussed the charging speeds you were achieving previously, but Nigel has clarified the limitation that you currently have:

I.e. the car is equipped with a single-phase onboard charger. If you use a 3-phase, 11kW charger you will be able to use only one of its three phases and thus are limited to 11/3 = 3.5kw (nominally). You'd do better with a single phase 7kW charger (or, of course, a three phase 22kW charger to get back to 7kW again).

It would probably help if Toyota were to fit the same 11kW three phase onboard charger that they supply with the bZ4X - and then, of course, you would need to find a correspondingly uprated supply.

I can't really see Toyota equipping the PHEV with rapid DC charging.

Do i got it right that,  if we had the same onboard 11kWh charger that bz4x have ,in our phev, then we had benen  able to charge faster even at our currengly availiably charge post?

And, i asume that bz4x will carge faster at our current charge post.

[nlee]

9 hours ago, HSDish said:

Do i got it right that,  if we had the same onboard 11kWh charger that bz4x have ,in our phev, then we had benen  able to charge faster even at our currengly availiably charge post?

And, i asume that bz4x will carge faster at our current charge post.

A new one should. It was originally supplied with the same 6.6kw charger as the PHEV but I've seen a media release that says from 2022 Q4, it will be fitted with an upgraded 11kw 3 phase charger. Maybe (or maybe not!) they'll add the next version of the PHEV.

[philip42h]

9 hours ago, HSDish said:

Do i got it right that,  if we had the same onboard 11kWh charger that bz4x have ,in our phev, then we had benen  able to charge faster even at our currengly availiably charge post?

And, i asume that bz4x will carge faster at our current charge post.

In your original thread you stated: 

Quote

We live in an apartment and we got three charging posts with two soccets each  and with "max" 11kwh speed ( A(mpere) and phase isnt specified .... 

If that is still the case, then 'yes' - three time faster!

With the single phase 6.6kw onboard charger built into the current PHEV you'll charge at 3.5kW (nominally)

With the alternative three phase 11kW onboard charger built into the current bZ4X you would be able to charge at 11kW - so three times faster. I guess that would be good and something to hope for? 😉

[Renquist]

I think there was a bit of negativity towards phev’s in the last few years, a lot of negative comments from “personalities” forming peoples views and the news that most fleet users that drove them didn’t ever charge them.
I got my old car from my brother, ex company car that he charged twice in 8 months, once I got it it was charged as soon as it was in the garage, the last tank I had managed over 900 miles.

Sorry, no information on the next rav4 but Toyota were claiming their next gen phev’s would be aiming for 100+ miles range, but it’s not likely that they will be able to get that out of a facelifted rav4 so maybe a full next gen one in 1 or 2 years, I’m waiting on delivery so I’m scouring the internet for info on any new rav4 news, there is nothing but ai generated speculation out there.

[Broadway One]

Hi all......more flag waving in favour of PHEV's.

Managed to get my point to the masses on Saturday gone, courtesy of Any Answers BBC R4.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

35.08 on the speech bar, releases my few minutes in the sun.

Thanks for your inputs to a interesting topic.

Barry Wright, Morecambe.    

[TonyHSD]

The negativity about phev comes mostly from people who had non Toyota hybrids and for a good reason. The only good phev hybrids on the market are Toyota cars imo because when they run out of Battery they can be driven as normal hev cars and still deliver greater economy over a standard petrol or diesel cars. Most if not all others can not do it and they fail short on delivering their promise. They are actually less efficient than their diesel or petrol only equivalent. 
Another reason why phev doesn’t get really favourite attention is because they have two plugs to think off and this can cause some issues to a busy high mileage drivers. You need to fill up with petrol which is the easiest part but you need to plug in and charge which is obviously not so easy, at least not always. I can understand that and will agree with them.
 However if you have a Toyota phev and access to cheap electric charging point at home preferably you can get the max out of it without unnecessary stress about two plugs 🔌⛽️
There is a smart way of using the phev for high mileage drives not only for short commute within the ev range, at least this will apply to Prius, not sure about rav4, you can confirm if it’s the same.
The trick is start on hev mode and use both ice and ev, have your Battery fully charged before the journey. When entering towns or densely populated areas with lower speed limits  switch to ev mode , then when out of town flip back to hybrid mode to preserve Battery charge for your next town visit. Doing so your average mpg will go up reducing your petrol bill. Not bad.
But if you argue that the electricity bill will off set the savings from the higher mpg then really what is the point of the second plug 🔌?