So Much Noise!

[NxJohn]

I have a Corolla Trek, much of which I love, but there's one thing that's driving me crazy; tyre noise.

I have two questions:

- Is there any effective soundproofing I can do?

- If I buy decent, low-noise tyres will there be a significant difference or is the suspension just too sensitive?

[Steven83]

I have a button that seems to reduce the tyre noise on my Corolla. It’s on the left of the multimedia screen 🔈🎶😁

[FROSTYBALLS]

41 minutes ago, NxJohn said:

If I buy decent, low-noise tyres will there be a significant difference

Noise ratings on tyres relate to external noise, so may not bear much relation to noise within the vehicle.

[AndyN01]

Hi,

While investigation sound deadening on a previous car I came across these folks:

https://www.deadening.co.uk/

Found them to be very helpful and informative.

Hope that helps.

Andy.

[Niky]

I've said this (probably few times) before

Noise is the only reason I am not fully in love with my car - MY22 TS 1.8 icon tech

Soundproofing- I did put in all 4 doors (changed all 4 door Speakers too) Didn't manage to remove all the covers from the wheel arches in the boot and just put little patches where I was able to reach. Covered all boot space, though.

I wasn't very impressed with the result at first, until I left my car for a service and had a CHR courtesy car for the day. Mine is soo much quieter after the soundproofing. It seems most of the noise is coming from the boot/rear tires - same with the CHR. Insulating the boot improved this, but other noises came up, like wind whistle from the driver's window- don't remember hearing this before.  Thinking of adding some extra rubber seals around the door - any suggestions will be much appreciated

Tires - changed all 4 stock Continentals with GoodYears EGP 2 last week. Definitely an improvement compared to the old very noisy Continentals. The new tyres are more comfortable too.

Its not a quiet car , and whatever we do, change, add it will never be one. However it's much better now - ALMOST falling in love😀

[TonyHSD]

Honestly any intervention and adding sound proofing will have very little if any positive affect on the overall noise in the cabin. These cars has enough sound insulation at the required places . There is something else that they are missing or haven’t been done correctly. Tyres can make a huge difference, probably the largest by all and it’s cheaper and safer way to do it., but don’t expect miracles. And remember the roads in UK are mostly covered in rough small stones , chips like surfaces that cause excessive road noise as well as drive by and in the cabin. The most suitable tyres that will reduce this noise coming into the cabin are all season V shaped tyres like Michelin Cross climates or Goodyear vector, they do have their own negatives though. 

[nielshm]

It could be interesting to explore solutions done by Lexus. Lexus cars in the 'cheaper' models are more or less Corolla Cross and Rav4 with a luxury twist. 

I have had boot cover and door covers removed, and Toyota has done next to nothing, in terms of sound proofing.

Any car by Ford or Citroën/ Peugeot will be MUCH MORE comfortable in terms of noise, even with a 25% lower price tag.

[Yugguy1970]

I'm thinking of lining out the boot area on the Rav with sound deadening, as that's where so much of the noise comes from, especially at motorway speeds.

[TonyHSD]

There are two major ways of how road noise is getting into the cabin. 1. Air leak inside cabin, 2. Nvh transmission, this could be from everything including suspension set up, dampers, springs, suspension arms, engine and transmission mounts, pretty much any rubber insulator better two or more metal parts. Also the car floor pan and any additional insulation, type of insulation etc. 
We need to focus on that matter to find out what exactly is missing in these cars or it’s different from those who we all noticed are quieter. This is perhaps a Toyota job to do it but for some reason we still have brand new cars with almost unacceptable cabin noise at speeds. 
Sticking insulation materials on the body panels only dampen the closing thud but if your doors leak air for one reason or another which is most likely the case of being noisy these extra insulation will not really help. 
And if you are following Munroe live on YouTube you probably already know that at higher speeds the front doors frames has a tendency to open at the top corners, how about that. This being one of the early issues in Tesla cars with road noise at speeds, won’t be surprised if it’s a Toyota thing too. 
Usually what I noticed on plusher cars like Mercedes s class for example is the type of materials used in the entire interior, the extra door seals and type of door seals , they have something like microfibre along the rubber seals, the suspension bushes some of which are filled with oil and so are the engine and transmission mounts and the list goes on. But this is very different category cars. 
Now if we compare vw Taigo vs Yaris X boot panels and execution we can see some differences but overall they are similar. The vw comes as quieter car in any test and review. 

 

[NxJohn]

Thanks for the replies so far, they confirm the fundamental problem I suspected.  I have 30+ years as a senior automotive technologist and I'd always had Toyota pushed at me as the gold standard in Kaisen, reliability and product improvement, so to say I'm disappointed with such a basic design error is an understatement.  I find the noise exhausting on a long drive.  Of course, a test drive is unlikely to pick this up, and no review that I read mentioned it.  Had I known about this "feature" I wouldn't have bought the car.  I'm a new Toyota owner, after seven years of satisfaction with my Mazda 6, but I'm beginning to wonder if I made a mistake.

[TonyHSD]

13 hours ago, NxJohn said:

Thanks for the replies so far, they confirm the fundamental problem I suspected.  I have 30+ years as a senior automotive technologist and I'd always had Toyota pushed at me as the gold standard in Kaisen, reliability and product improvement, so to say I'm disappointed with such a basic design error is an understatement.  I find the noise exhausting on a long drive.  Of course, a test drive is unlikely to pick this up, and no review that I read mentioned it.  Had I known about this "feature" I wouldn't have bought the car.  I'm a new Toyota owner, after seven years of satisfaction with my Mazda 6, but I'm beginning to wonder if I made a mistake.

Hi John, 

I know how annoying can be an excess noise when travelling on longer journeys. I never drove Corolla far enough to make assumptions but I had previously the worst car experience with Toyota Auris gen 2 diesel from 2013. I had to return it on the very same day after collection after only traveled 50 miles. It was a horrible thing to be in. Even at speeds of only 60mph there were wind like open windows noise, road noise like there is a hole in the floor and vibrations through out the entire car and particularly steering wheel, seats, pedals, no way I could use this car. Another annoying thing was a wind whistle from the door mirrors, I just turned around went back to the dealer and dropped the car and the keys and walked away. 
I don’t know if your car is that bad or anywhere near , hopefully not as bad and apart from that I don’t think you had made a bad choice. Perhaps a better tyres can reduce the annoying road noise a bit and make it more pleasant place to be. 

 

[PCM]

In my small car (IQ) I changed to all season tyres, and added appropriate sound deadening, and checked and enhanced door and boot seals. 

It's great around town or on the motorway.

[AisinW]

@NxJohn it is normal for Corolla Compact noise level especielly if you do not get Excel trim that has double pane (accoustic) windows.  Corolla Trek has higher ground clearance and turbulence below the car and is noticably noisier than regular Corolla. 

For the price, it is hard to find other manufacturers who gave as much proven engineering in hybrid systems, reliability, and smoothness. The hybrid in VW, Hyundai, and other brands are way too clunky. Only newest Honda is close enough. Honda Civic is even more expensive than Corolla. 

Toyota are not known for their sound insulations.    Especially around the wheel well insulations and windows.  If I see from Lexus ES compared to Camry, the under body has more body addhesive, soft matt cover instead of plastics, and more foams on all holes that any outside air can gets in.  

If we are so annoyed with the tire noise, it is managable to install sound proofing by professional.  Someone who knows how to use light materials, not just dumping aspalt/butyl rubber everywhere. Tires noise mainly travels throught the air. The resonance from the wheel well can still be improved too. 

Besides that, Toyota rust proofing is way better than Mazda, benz, and Honda. Comparable to VW. 

[Obsidian Estate]

Having spent over 3 years in a GT86 with rock hard suspension and a noisy exhaust I think my Corolla is very quiet.

The only place it does get noisy is on the horrible concrete section of the A180 near where I live. Though I've been in plenty of cars that are a lot worse.

After suffering numerous punctures I currently have Firestone tyres on it, and to be honest I haven't noticed a night and day difference between them and the original Falkens. Possibly marginally quieter, they do seem to resist understeer slightly more.

[Gray86]

Fuel economy & emissions mean cars need to be light as possible, and sound proofing is HEAVY. If you want a quiet Toyota you can buy a Lexus. . . . 

[Hybrid21]

Yes I agree that the noise level in my RAV4 is unacceptable for a vehicle in that price range, and noise is the one thing that will force me to move to another brand when I change.

It's a shame really as I do like most of the other features in the car ☹️

[TonyHSD]

I agree with that Graeme , however the sound proofing is light imo , but cost money. 
I believe the reason Toyota cars of latest are noisier because they use lighter metal parts , thinner panels to save weight but this has negative and it’s exactly more noise as this new construction of thinner materials require extra noise dampen material. This is the key here. Plus use of recycled hard plastic materials, fuel saving tyres, unsuitable wheels and tyres sizes, it’s a combination of variables with end results not very satisfying. 
 

[Niky]

Why don't we do a little experiment here 😀. There are noise level meter apps which can be installed on the phone and used to measure noise in dbs. This maybe isn't a perfect tool, but at least it's free of charge and can give a little idea of noise levels. There will be lots of variables too - tyres, road surface, traffic, weather condition, driving style, etc.... but let's say we do 15 minutes each motorway driving with the cruise control set on 70mph, 50mph and City driving 30mph. The app I am using shows lowest, highest and average noise levels. Try to so this alone without any music on in the car.  Let's see what average do we get

Then share your experience together with the car(hb, ts, 2 or 1.8) and tyres spec......

 

[NxJohn]

A bit of an update, as I get to understand the car a bit better:

- The noise appears to be 100% tyre noise.  On a smooth surface, on engine or Battery, the car is almost silent, so no significant wind, bearing, panel noise etc. 

-  I get the (subjective) impression it's airborne, without too much panel/boot flexing.  It seems I could go to a lot of trouble insulating without getting to the root cause.  I looked at materials and techniques to noise-insulate, and it's a *major* faff.

-  My tyres (Falken, with side-wall protection) do quite badly in noise tests, and I'm hoping this is most of the problem.  Michelin Primacy 4s on my Mazda 6 were great for noise.

- I've been running the recommended tyre pressures of 33F/30R and I felt this looked, and drove, a bit too low.  As an experiment, I added 3psi to both (assuming this was no more than you'd use for a fully-loaded car) and the noise certainly appears to be an order of magnitude lower; not quiet, but certainly much more tolerable.  The car seems to roll more smoothly, without being hard, and I assume there's a fuel benefit too.

- All this suggests what I'm hearing is mostly related to this particular tread pattern/sidewall stiffness or whatever, and I think I'll go with the slightly higher pressures until I can dump the Falkens and switch to a better (maybe even foam-filled) tyre.

[Steven83]

5 hours ago, NxJohn said:

A bit of an update, as I get to understand the car a bit better:

- The noise appears to be 100% tyre noise.  On a smooth surface, on engine or battery, the car is almost silent, so no significant wind, bearing, panel noise etc. 

-  I get the (subjective) impression it's airborne, without too much panel/boot flexing.  It seems I could go to a lot of trouble insulating without getting to the root cause.  I looked at materials and techniques to noise-insulate, and it's a *major* faff.

-  My tyres (Falken, with side-wall protection) do quite badly in noise tests, and I'm hoping this is most of the problem.  Michelin Primacy 4s on my Mazda 6 were great for noise.

- I've been running the recommended tyre pressures of 33F/30R and I felt this looked, and drove, a bit too low.  As an experiment, I added 3psi to both (assuming this was no more than you'd use for a fully-loaded car) and the noise certainly appears to be an order of magnitude lower; not quiet, but certainly much more tolerable.  The car seems to roll more smoothly, without being hard, and I assume there's a fuel benefit too.

- All this suggests what I'm hearing is mostly related to this particular tread pattern/sidewall stiffness or whatever, and I think I'll go with the slightly higher pressures until I can dump the Falkens and switch to a better (maybe even foam-filled) tyre.

Foam filled tyre? Never heard of that other than the foam canister for a temp puncture repair. 

[TonyHSD]

6 hours ago, Steven83 said:

Foam filled tyre? Never heard of that other than the foam canister for a temp puncture repair. 

These tyres has a foam inside the tyre along diameter to reduce noise. Usually available on ev car tyres or higher end ones.
A good well known brands with soft tyre walls is all you need. Avoid fun flats and ultra high performance tyres. Get touring tyres instead and the car will become much more settled. 

[AisinW]

I think Falken is pretty noisy indeed. Goodyear, Continental, Michelin, or Hankook tires are relatively quieter.  I am not sure if we can glue a foam inside the tires.  I think double tape 3M will do just find and hold for a decade or more.  I will probalby try this if i get a new tires.  Not sure if the tire mounting mechanics will laugh or complaint. There are few steps to reduce road noise:

1. Change the tires with wellknown quiter tires

2. put some foams on body area near wheel well.

3. Put some foams on trunk, doors, and all opening area where outside air can get in. 

[fred88]

On Blackcircles my 225/45 R17 Falcon Ziex are 97dB, whereas Michelin Cross Cimate 2 are 71dB.

 

[NxJohn]

18 minutes ago, fred88 said:

On Blackcircles my 225/45 R17 Falcon Ziex are 97dB, whereas Michelin Cross Cimate 2 are 71dB.

 

Wow!

[Don Mac]

8 minutes ago, fred88 said:

On Blackcircles my 225/45 R17 Falcon Ziex are 97dB, whereas Michelin Cross Cimate 2 are 71dB.

 

Do you mean 67dB for the Falkens? (Ziex ZE-914B Ecorun)

I believe that the numbers quoted in tyre specifications are for the noise external to the car and that the internal noise is not necessarily proportional to this.

I don't know of any sites with information about comparative internal noise, possibly because it varies from car to car.