Is the new 2.0 really more economical than the 1.8?

[AisinW]

Prius has much better drag coeff. It is better than corolla 1.8L. 

I am not sure about the 2.0L Prius5.  the data is too few but from KBB or Savageese reviews, it is indeed better MPG than Prius4. However, Prius 5 used a lot of aluminum parts and thinner metal plates.

The 2.0L corolla is supposed to be the same as Prius5 powertrain. So, I am not convinced to either claims. 

For economical insurance cost, the 1.8L is cheaper indeed. It is also much simpler without direct injection. 

[TonyHSD]

Best you can do with 2.0 is to match 1.8. Because if you try 1.8 you gonna come close to the 1.5 Yaris. It’s simply physics. The larger engine drinks more plus the extra weight of the car will always take its toll. 
In USA some people noticed that the new Prius 2.0 hev it’s not as efficient as previous gen 4 1.8 hev. , could be just 5mpg but it is real.
And btw the gen 3 Prius it’s not as efficient as gen 4 Prius.
The gen 3 hybrids 136bhp Prius, Prius plus and Auris and ct200h are somewhere in between 1.8 and 2.0 gen 4 and 5 hybrids as efficiency. That’s my findings and understanding. 👌

[mpm235]

On 7/27/2023 at 5:52 PM, 41hz said:

I know the official WLTP mpg is a slight better for the 2.0 (64.1 vs 62.7mpg for the Icon TS).

I’m wondering if that is a quirk of the WLTP testing that benefits the 2.0 more and in real world driving the 1.8 might be more economical? Anyone have any views on that? The dealer I spoke to seemed to think the 1.8 would be more economical.

I was really intrigued by this myself. So much so, that I messaged Toyota UK (on Facebook) and asked them about it. They replied that the 2.0 does burn a bit less fuel, because the HSD Battery is so powerful, it does a lot of the propulsion, so the car uses less petrol. Which I think pretty much makes sense. Having said that, I'm sure drivers with the 2.0 will end up getting less MPG that 1.8s, as it will be so hard to resist using the 196 horses for some cheeky acceleration, and its acceleration that burns E10 and E5 at a rate of knots. Cheers, Mark

[jordieDAFC]

6 hours ago, mpm235 said:

I was really intrigued by this myself. So much so, that I messaged Toyota UK (on Facebook) and asked them about it. They replied that the 2.0 does burn a bit less fuel, because the HSD Battery is so powerful, it does a lot of the propulsion, so the car uses less petrol. Which I think pretty much makes sense. Having said that, I'm sure drivers with the 2.0 will end up getting less MPG that 1.8s, as it will be so hard to resist using the 196 horses for some cheeky acceleration, and its acceleration that burns E10 and E5 at a rate of knots. Cheers, Mark

As an owner of a 2.0L, I can confirm that there is often an urge to stop playing the MPG game and unleash the full stable of horses....But then it's straight back to boosting the MPG! 😂

[Yowsah]

My contribution to the debate which is totally worthless is that I have moved to a  2 Litre Corolla TS GR Sport from a Land Cruiser 100 series 4.2 Straight 6 diesel. Needless to say my mpg is hugely better than the Cruiser so no complaints on that score. Whilst thoroughly enjoying the Corolla I do however miss my Cruiser greatly.

[Cyker]

9 hours ago, jordieDAFC said:

As an owner of a 2.0L, I can confirm that there is often an urge to stop playing the MPG game and unleash the full stable of horses....But then it's straight back to boosting the MPG! 😂

Ahh, it sounds like you drive like me!  

 

[jordieDAFC]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Ahh, it sounds like you drive like me!  

 

Tbh, I think people see Corolla's and think that they're slow and underpowered cars....but the 2.0L Hybrid is anything but that, especially from a standing start!

 

Not that I try and beat people away from lights or anything.....

[Cyker]

Me neither....?

I think they should revive those old "The car in front is a Toyota" adverts for these   

But yeah the accelerator response and punchiness of these new ones really makes them a joy to drive  

[TonyHSD]

Oh dear, 

toyota hasn’t even one model that a person can buy and own outright that can be so fast as is a car that is official fastest in the world and everyone over 18’ with enough cash in its bank account can buy it as easy as buying a phone case from Amazon, it’s called a Tesla and if you see that think acceleration you will never mention anything else as fast , not even the super cars. These cars are out of this world. 
 

For the 2.0 vs 1.8 the fuel efficiency in real world will be awarded to the smaller engine. 

[AisinW]

Based on EPA test that include consistent test accros different cars since 2008. The new Prius 2023 is indeed more efficient than Prius 4 2016.

I observed the EPA number is more accurate than manufacturer claims.   It includes wind drag test, etc. Another good resources is ADAC website but they don't have Prius 2023 yet. 

The 2.0L engine almost the same size as 1.8L, just miniature of 2.5L 2AR-FXE engines. It makes sense it can deliver better efficiency in wider RPM band with dual injections and stronget MG2. 

If someone consume more on the 2.0L, it is because he has too much fun on the gas pedal. If he drives with a good manner, the 2.0L will be better especially witb 4 adults in it. 

 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/!Removed!/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46359

 

[TonyHSD]

I will suggest to come back to this post after 2-3 years as of today it’s bit too early to say for sure. We need more data from personal experiences in real world and more information from more Corolla owners of both versions. 

 

[Cyker]

10 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Oh dear, 

toyota hasn’t even one model that a person can buy and own outright that can be so fast as is a car that is official fastest in the world and everyone over 18’ with enough cash in its bank account can buy it as easy as buying a phone case from Amazon, it’s called a Tesla and if you see that think acceleration you will never mention anything else as fast , not even the super cars. These cars are out of this world. 
 

For the 2.0 vs 1.8 the fuel efficiency in real world will be awarded to the smaller engine. 

Yeaaah but they're too scared to because it drops their range so much, so does it count??  

There are a few I see now and then who aren't afraid to give their Model S the beans on the A406 tho' - Those things can really shift! (And apparently have better traction control than Porsches as I haven't seen one spin off backward into a wall yet in heavy rain  )

 

[Gray86]

12 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Oh dear, 

toyota hasn’t even one model that a person can buy and own outright that can be so fast as is a car that is official fastest in the world and everyone over 18’ with enough cash in its bank account can buy it as easy as buying a phone case from Amazon, it’s called a Tesla and if you see that think acceleration you will never mention anything else as fast , not even the super cars. These cars are out of this world. 
 

For the 2.0 vs 1.8 the fuel efficiency in real world will be awarded to the smaller engine. 

I did 500 miles in my friends Model 3 Long Range, and it was a lot of fun - 30-70mph is unbeatable in those. 
 

back to the 1.8-2.0 debate, my brief stint with a 2010 Auris hybrid (1,500 miles) saw around 56mpg on average, which is exactly what my 2.0 Corolla TS has averaged over the last 3 years / 26,000 miles. The Gen 4 1.8 I expect is more efficient that the GEN3. 

[AisinW]

The pre 2023 2.0L has smaller MG2 and less powerful Battery but proven NiMh type.  The pre 2023 2.0L indeed consume more fuel than 1.8L. 

At this moment we do not have enough data from personal experience and we relly on scientific test by EPA, ADAC, or other agencies. 

We cannot trust manufacturer claims especielly if it is released in Europe. If it is released in North America with better consumer protection law, they are more trusted. American can ask payback if manufacturer lies/over claim.

1.8L corolla   https://www.fueleconomy.gov/!Removed!/Find.do?action=sbs&id=45929

2.0 L Prius

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/!Removed!/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46359

The 2.0 Prius is more efficient than Corolla 1.8L 

[mpm235]

Intresting stuff, thanks for the info John

[fred88]

This will be the place to look.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/real-mpg/

[AisinW]

18 minutes ago, fred88 said:

This will be the place to look.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/real-mpg/

Thanks. Unfortunately, it has very minimal information on how many drivers reported and very off from what statistics are.  How come Hybrid Auris is less efficient than most Golf TSI engines.  

The one from Germany has a real statistics number:

https://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/49-Toyota/1734-Corolla_Hybrid.html?fueltype=2

[TonyHSD]

These sites aren’t very accurate imo. The best way to see and make a real picture of fuel consumption is from owner’s personal experience. 
Have data from both versions, or same person to try both versions on his regular way of drives. Back in 2015 I was renting cars for 4 weeks each, I had changed quite few of them and I could note the difference in fuel consumption, performance, comfort, noise levels , all come very apparent. The different between my driving then and any auto journalists was that I had the cars in use over 4000 miles where most reviewers has the cars for short period mostly, not enough to make a real judgement.  
The 2.0 gen5 will only be more efficient or come close to 1.8 gen 5 if driven in ideal conditions, similar to wltp tests from which these days was taken. 
The car is heavier on average 50-60kg , more unsprung mass too as it has bigger brakes and larger driveshafts. Battery is heavier too, 60 cells against 48 on 1.8. 
The 2.0 will be more efficient of you drive at 70mph or 80mph constantly on motorways, the petrol engine will be able to propel the whole extra mass with less effort because of its extra bhp.
I already saw a comments from USA that the new Prius is less efficient than gen 4 1.8, but they said well to be expected as latest one is made with performance in mind where the older slower gen 4 1.8 was built entirely for efficiency. 

[fred88]

The Honest John data is real world using data entered by drivers.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, fred88 said:

The Honest John data is real world using data entered by drivers.

I always called this site and similar dishonest John 😂👌

Just kidding.

[mpm235]

6 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

I always called this site and similar dishonest John 😂👌

Just kidding.

It used to be good. Origanal Honest John site, and associated colum in Telegraph Newspaper, was brilliant motoring consumer advice. The real "Honest John" behind it, was a bloke called Peter Lorimer. But in 2020 it was taken over by Heycar, been absolute rubbiswh old pants since then.

[AisinW]

From the engine perspective alone, in non hybrid Corolla North America, the 2.0L is more efficient than the 1.8L.  They both come with CVT push-belt transmission but the 2.0L has real 1st gear and have better range of torque and HP at usable RPM range. 

So in short, for the same power delivery and accelerationrate, the 2.0L hybrid corolla is most likely more efficient. In cruise speed on flat road, there is possibility that the 1.8L is as efficient as the 2.0L. The 1.8L 2ZR-FXE is just too old and ancient, cannot compete with the 2.0L dual injection and more modern design with variable oil pump, etc. 

[TonyHSD]

4 hours ago, AisinW said:

From the engine perspective alone, in non hybrid Corolla North America, the 2.0L is more efficient than the 1.8L.  They both come with CVT push-belt transmission but the 2.0L has real 1st gear and have better range of torque and HP at usable RPM range. 

So in short, for the same power delivery and accelerationrate, the 2.0L hybrid corolla is most likely more efficient. In cruise speed on flat road, there is possibility that the 1.8L is as efficient as the 2.0L. The 1.8L 2ZR-FXE is just too old and ancient, cannot compete with the 2.0L dual injection and more modern design with variable oil pump, etc. 

That’s right , from pure petrol variants the 2.0 is an absolute winner. 👌

[Mg1232]

First post here and thought I would do so remembering this thread.

For reasons I won’t go into, I have found myself having driven both a 1.8 and 2.0 2023 Toyota Corolla. The 1.8 was a GR Sport and the 2.0 an Excel; both hatchbacks so a direct comparison. The GR Sport had nearly 3,000 miles on it when I picked it up; the Excel only 7.

From my experience, over a similar mileage and almost identical journeys and driving style, the calculated (fill up to fill up) averages of the two are very similar with the 2.0 indeed being (slightly) more efficient:

1.8 GR Sport (June - August): 2,200 miles; average = 60.68mpg (UK).

2.0 Excel (September - October): 1,800 miles; average = 60.94mpg (UK).

The average for the Excel has come down slightly over the last few weeks as the temperate has dropped. It is the case that in town/city driving, the 1.8 was generally more efficient, but on motorway journeys it was the 2.0 that used less fuel. However, I have had occasions in town/city driving where the 2.0 has exceeded the 1.8 on the same journey as displayed by the onboard computer.

So my experience is that in real world driving across a range of scenarios, the 2.0 is as efficient, if not more so, than the 1.8. So the figures Toyota has published are realistic.

Just thought this might be interesting to others!

[TonyHSD]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. 
It will be interesting to see fuel consumption between both 1.8 and 2.0 during winter months November to April. See how both engines behave, it is known that the more efficient is the car they more suffer from cold weather mpg drop.