Khan Can

[Bper]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

As I said, if there's one thing we're good at it's voting against our best interests and then complaining it wasn't what we voted for when the inevitable obvious consequences hit...

Still, maybe people here will have learned from the first ULEZ expansion, but since people are, collectively, idiots, I'm not holding my breath...

 

I think some of us on here should collectively run for Mayor, how can basic common sense and empathy easily be ignored for greed an ego.

 

[Cyker]

6 minutes ago, CPN said:

In a word, it's called selfishness!!

Possibly, but I lean more towards one of my favourite adages, Hanlon's Razor, which states:

"Never attribute to malice, that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"  

(There are a lot of really stupid people here; They mean well, but they do not understand how consequences and knock-on effects work. No wonder everyone in the rest of the country keeps accusing Londoners of living in our own little world - It's essentially true! )

 

[Big_D]

Remember, you can't fix "Stupid"

[Haliotis]

At present there is very little to choose between Labour and the Tories.  Presenter Mark Dolan, on GB News, summed Starmer and Sunak up perfectly when he said, “They are just two cheeks of the same ****!”

[Bper]

16 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

At present there is very little to choose between Labour and the Tories.  Presenter Mark Dolan, on GB News, summed Starmer and Sunak up perfectly when he said, “They are just two cheeks of the same ****!”

Yes Albert and both need slapping to wake up smell the coffee and do what's good for the people and not for their own greed,ego and political career's.👍

[Bper]

Sadiq Khan issues more then £700,000 of ULEZ fines everyday. What a rip off of🤬 hard working peoples money.

[Big_D]

And the ULEZ is is not about profit. It's about cleaner air ? ? ? Yeah Right.

[Haliotis]

17 hours ago, Bper said:

I think some of us on here should collectively run for Mayor, how can basic common sense and empathy easily be ignored for greed an ego.

 

On a similar trend of thought, why do we all, even if we know decisions aren’t right, simply grumble among ourselves, then accept those decisions anyhow?  I think we are all aware that, far from looking at the interests of the population first, the prime concern of the government is to favour decisions that serve best their chances of winning the next election.

So, why not take a leaf out of the book of the protest groups - they seem to get the attention of the government, probably because, making the most noise and capturing media time, the government thinks they represent the masses.

Ordinary citizens like ourselves should get together in large regional groups, and jointly cooperate to put pressure on the government to listen to our concerns. Lobbying our MPs as a group is the best way to make those MPs worry about the safety of their seats.  How nice it would be to shift the worries onto our rulers’ shoulders, and off the shoulders of the ruled!

[STANLEY82]

6 hours ago, Haliotis said:

At present there is very little to choose between Labour and the Tories.  Presenter Mark Dolan, on GB News, summed Starmer and Sunak up perfectly when he said, “They are just two cheeks of the same ****!”

I suspect GB news want folk to believe Starmer is no different so the potential Labour voters don't vote. I think Starmer is Tory-lite at best. However, even if for example there is only 1% improvement across all public services, all the 1% incremental improvements often have far-reaching positive changes in our everyday lives.

[Haliotis]

The turnout at elections is always appallingly low, so we never really know what the outcome might be if the potential electorate voted.  We are required by law to co,muleteer the census every 10 years, so would it be a bridge too far if voting at general elections was made mandatory?  Admittedly, there are those who would have no idea how to vote responsibly but, given the reversals that politicians are notorious for, would that make much difference?  Those voters who keep abreast of politics basically take a chance with their choice.  At least, if everyone voted, any given party could not rely on a low turnout to give them victory.

[Bper]

Apathy and self interest has become the focus of many people's attention and not collective mass demonstration's. MSM focus on small groups like Just Stop Oil as this fits in with the climate crisis agenda and keeps people's attention focused on this issue.

Lobbying MPs has mixed results and I testify to this by the amount of  times I have written to our local MP and received a reply weeks later with the stock government reply.

In my opinion, I really don't think many MPs actually worry too much about constituents concerns especially those with a large majority. They know if their seat is safe or not and many will step straight into other jobs if voted out.

MPs are whipped to toe the government line and any opposition from them leaves them languishing on the back benches with no chance of the one thing they all are striving for and that is to be a government minister.

Many radio presenters dismiss the MPs failures as just stupidity and they say they don't understand what ordinary people have to suffer. I do not think they are stupid, I think they know exactly what is going on and their main objective is to position themselves for self interest and prosperity at all costs.

We have a ended up with a two party system that in essence has the same agenda's but they wear different colours.

Everything that is going on is not just incompetence and stupidity, if people can be bothered to do research it is clear this is all being manipulated and it is not in any way for the benefit of people.

 

[Cyker]

4 hours ago, Haliotis said:

On a similar trend of thought, why do we all, even if we know decisions aren’t right, simply grumble among ourselves, then accept those decisions anyhow?  I think we are all aware that, far from looking at the interests of the population first, the prime concern of the government is to favour decisions that serve best their chances of winning the next election.

So, why not take a leaf out of the book of the protest groups - they seem to get the attention of the government, probably because, making the most noise and capturing media time, the government thinks they represent the masses.

Ordinary citizens like ourselves should get together in large regional groups, and jointly cooperate to put pressure on the government to listen to our concerns. Lobbying our MPs as a group is the best way to make those MPs worry about the safety of their seats.  How nice it would be to shift the worries onto our rulers’ shoulders, and off the shoulders of the ruled!

Well, might makes right, and they have the police and the army on their side. They're trying to essentially ban protests that annoy them too.

Really, if we feel so strongly, we should be trying to get into the system to change it from within - The problem is, none of us really care that much, and going into politics is incredibly soul-destroying.

You have to be a literal psychopath, or very very rich, to make it in politics. Good people are too easily discouraged and worn down by hecklers and smegheads pouncing on their every little mistake, while people like Gove and Cummings get away with anything because they have no conscience.

 

1 hour ago, Haliotis said:

The turnout at elections is always appallingly low, so we never really know what the outcome might be if the potential electorate voted.  We are required by law to co,muleteer the census every 10 years, so would it be a bridge too far if voting at general elections was made mandatory?  Admittedly, there are those who would have no idea how to vote responsibly but, given the reversals that politicians are notorious for, would that make much difference?  Those voters who keep abreast of politics basically take a chance with their choice.  At least, if everyone voted, any given party could not rely on a low turnout to give them victory.

Yeah, they really need to advertise that more here to encourage people to vote - I remember the turn out was so low at one point there was a real danger the BNP could have gotten a load of seats!

This despondancy is so bad France could have been be ruled by a literal fascist party - The citizens had to run a campaign that went something like "hold your nose and vote" to try and get more people to vote for the unpopular incumbent party, just to stop the National Front winning the presidency due to low turnout, and they keep having to do it!

It's just hard because there are so few people who seem worthy of a vote.

TBH I think we should start to think about how we can change politics - abolish political parties and make it mandatory for people to vote for things ourselves - Right now what we have doesn't feel like a democracy, but more of a Vote for your dictator.

We very occasionally vote for stuff in referendums - This should happen more often; Big decisions that affect is should be explained in detail, the pros and the cons, and then put to a vote instead of being left up to politicians who are now too self-serving to represent us.

There are still good ones, but they seems like the minority these days - Whenever I've accidentally switched to the Parliament channel, it scares me that these people run the country; Literal school children would be better at debate, discussion and compromise than those lot!

 

[Bper]

39 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Well, might makes right, and they have the police and the army on their side. They're trying to essentially ban protests that annoy them too.

Really, if we feel so strongly, we should be trying to get into the system to change it from within - The problem is, none of us really care that much, and going into politics is incredibly soul-destroying.

You have to be a literal psychopath, or very very rich, to make it in politics. Good people are too easily discouraged and worn down by hecklers and smegheads pouncing on their every little mistake, while people like Gove and Cummings get away with anything because they have no conscience.

 

Yeah, they really need to advertise that more here to encourage people to vote - I remember the turn out was so low at one point there was a real danger the BNP could have gotten a load of seats!

This despondancy is so bad France could have been be ruled by a literal fascist party - The citizens had to run a campaign that went something like "hold your nose and vote" to try and get more people to vote for the unpopular incumbent party, just to stop the National Front winning the presidency due to low turnout, and they keep having to do it!

It's just hard because there are so few people who seem worthy of a vote.

TBH I think we should start to think about how we can change politics - abolish political parties and make it mandatory for people to vote for things ourselves - Right now what we have doesn't feel like a democracy, but more of a Vote for your dictator.

We very occasionally vote for stuff in referendums - This should happen more often; Big decisions that affect is should be explained in detail, the pros and the cons, and then put to a vote instead of being left up to politicians who are now too self-serving to represent us.

There are still good ones, but they seems like the minority these days - Whenever I've accidentally switched to the Parliament channel, it scares me that these people run the country; Literal school children would be better at debate, discussion and compromise than those lot!

 

See if more people like you with common sense run the country we wouldn't be in the sh*t show we are now.👍

 

[Haliotis]

I regularly watch PM Question time.  The sniping across the dispatch box is so infantile, and the uproar requiring the Speaker to repeatedly call for order is indicative of the ignorance of so many MPs.  Sunak’s weakness shows when he doesn’t have a real answer with which to retaliate - he usually resorts to claims that the Conservatives create jobs where Labour destroys them.

What does anger me, is when one party declines to recognise a good idea because the opposite party thought of it first. Or, the opposition openly state that they will reverse a law when they get into power, even if that law is beneficial to the people.  The exception is where a bad law increases revenue for the Treasury - then, a change of government retains that law!

[AndyN01]

I've posted elsewhere that if our "leaders" behave like primary school children in the playground and are shown to be self serving as their No. 1 aim then it's not really too surprising that the "population" behave as it does and doesn't trust a word they say and the folks we'd really like to "look after" us just can't be bothered to get involved. Ever tried to explain to someone that it's not OK to just shout down or over someone else while they're trying to put across an idea/point etc. Well...that's what they do in parliament......

I'd happily bring in personal bankruptcy and a lifetime ban for any politician at any level if they are involved in any criminal activity and see how that affects how many want to be a politician (or, indeed, could stay there)? They should be squeaky clean - all of them.

Choice and consequence.

Andy.

[Haliotis]

I like that, Andy.  Shouldn’t we go one further, and give them a very basic salary, plus an allowance to run their constituency?  Then , come election time when the government and opposition goes to the country, they get a bonus depending on our much better the Treasury coffers are compared to when they came into office.  In the event of the coffers having a negative figure, no bonus PLUS a fine before they can stand again for election.  At the very least, it would discourage a government from reckless spending.

[Big_D]

9 hours ago, Haliotis said:

they get a bonus depending on our much better the Treasury coffers are compared to when they came into office.

But, wouldn't this encourage more money making schemes like ULEZ where the public are forced to pay so politicians can make a profit, increase the treasury coffers, and then get their bonus??

[Bper]

When Politicians are elected they should be paid by results. given 6 months to show they are meeting the obligations they outlined in the party manifesto. If nothing been been achieved in this period they are sacked and replaced. If results are better then expected they get a bonus. If any proof of corruption they are prosecuted and jailed .

 

[Bper]

Just landed in France and due to take the 8.30am dingy to Dover. Phoned ahead to arrange A hotel with border force and they have arranged a 4*. it wasn't my first choice but it have to do.

Anyone recommend a good restaurant in London.😂

[Paul john]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:30 AM, Bper said:

Sadiq Khan issues more then £700,000 of ULEZ fines everyday. What a rip off of🤬 hard working peoples money.

Curious on where that number is from. 

[Bper]

7 minutes ago, Paul john said:

Curious on where that number is from. 

Hi Paul, lots of articles about fines this is just one or them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12476967/Sadiq-Khan-issues-700-000-ULEZ-fines-DAY-just-4-000-charges-average-handed-daily-three-months-row.html

[Paul john]

10 hours ago, Bper said:

Hi Paul, lots of articles about fines this is just one or them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12476967/Sadiq-Khan-issues-700-000-ULEZ-fines-DAY-just-4-000-charges-average-handed-daily-three-months-row.html

Oh i see. Ill just ignore the BBC reporting only warning letters have been issued and trust the Daily Snail. Thanks for the info. 

[Haliotis]

Why don’t tradesmen enbloc revert to horse drawn vans? No reg plates for charging VED or for awarding fines, and Khan would have to spend some of his dwindling cash in cleaning up the horse droppings.  And Just-Stop-Oil protesters wouldn’t be so complacent with a Clydesdale bearing down on them!

[Yugguy1970]

They'd find something else to complain about I'm sure.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/sep/08/us-open-2023-semi-final-climate-protester-glues-feet

I'd have just left them there glued to the floor and gone home.

[davidif]

3 hours ago, Paul john said:

Oh i see. Ill just ignore the BBC reporting only warning letters have been issued and trust the Daily Snail. Thanks for the info. 

I certainly wouldn't trust the BBC's version of the truth anymore than I would the Daily Mail's