12v battery issues, anyone got a Jump pack?

[UncleZen]

I've had 2 instances of the 12v Battery dropping below the threshold needed to 'start' the car, both instances within the last 5 days (after only 2 days standing). In both cases the green 'ready' light was not on and the 12v Battery voltage was measured at 9.3v by my multimeter.

The first time it happened the dealer popped out with a Jump pack (or charge pack?) and started the car. The second time it was a Sunday and I enlisted the help of another motorist with Jump leads.

I should have breakdown and rescue cover, but, because of a dealer *****-up this is not in place, but hopefully will be shortly.

So, back to he point, I'm thinking, that 1) the dealer should take a look the car to see if the 12v Battery is OK, and 2) I may get a Jump pack. 

If I decide to get a Jump pack, I assume that I won't need a powerful one as it wont have to cold crank the ICE only kick start the 12v accessories circuit. Anyone got one? And is my assumption correct?

[Roy124]

Zen, correct on all counts.

The dealer should certainly check that Battery.  A jumper pack is a cheap insurance aid.   Breakdown cover is fine but could be frustrating if you wait an hour or more for some you could do on minutes.

This would work:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Flashlight-Automatic-Emergency-FitAutomotive/dp/B0BN8KMB9Y/ref=mp_s_a_1_14

Or this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185920789446

That's an example, not a recommendation. 

[UncleZen]

Thanks for the examples. There is recent review article on auto express 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product-group-tests/92728/best-mini-jump-starter-packs

I was thinking the machine mart device would do the job.

[philip42h]

I carry a Noco Boost Sport GB20 - probably available from many other places and possibly at better prices 😉

[Roy124]

Zen, yes that would work as would the NoCo.  However both these are designed to start the engine.  You do not need to start the engine but start the computer which requires very little power.

Once the system is running the HV Battery takes over.

My pack, less than £30, is said to be good for an ICE start or 4 EV starts.  It has held its charge for several months.

[UncleZen]

I know that noco have a good reputation, I already have a noco Battery charger, that I bought early on in the pandemic. But I didn't have a hybrid then.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, UncleZen said:

I know that noco have a good reputation, I already have a noco battery charger, that I bought early on in the pandemic. But I didn't have a hybrid then.

Snap! 🙂 

[Derek.w]

Hi UncleZen, Are you talking about a car thats just one year old?.

If so try for a free Battery replacment from the Toyota garage, you may end up paying for part of it.

You can olways fit your own replacment Battery then you can choose to go for a larger wattage if you wish.

[Roy124]

11 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Hi UncleZen, Are you talking about a car thats just one year old?.

If so try for a free battery replacment from the Toyota garage, you may end up paying for part of it.

I got my Battery changed and upgraded FOC at the 12 month point.

Over a period of a week I took a daily voltage reading.  This showed a steady and significant decrease.  I had done this 2 or 3 times and passed the details to the garage.

There was no discussion or quibbling they just changed the Battery, a 42AHr to replace the original 35AHr.

[UncleZen]

The car is 17m old. I bought it when it was 13m old, in April.

I have been monitoring the voltage each day (engine off), it's quite easy as the Battery is easliy accessible in the boot. So far, its not dropped below 11.8v, which made me wonder what the 'threshold' is, below which it won't 'start' and whether there is a way of monitoring the voltage from inside the cabin on the display somehow. And whether anyone knew if the voltage was logged in the system, so there would be no doubt that it had dropped because a technician could simply look at the logs.

 

Oh and finally, my breakdown & recovery cover is now in-place. I didn't take their word for it,  I phoned the rescue number and checked!

[Bob110023]

The computer would need to see a minimum voltage of 12 volts. Any reading below 12.45 volts indicates that the Battery requires charging.

There is a device that reads the Battery voltage by plugging into the 12 volt auxiliary plug, but you would only obtain a reading when the plug is live. You can find them on eBay.

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, UncleZen said:

a way of monitoring the voltage

Folk fit a bluetooth Battery monitor. This is wired directly across the 12V auxiliary Battery and can report the voltage to a smartphone irrespective of whether the car is on or off. It does, of course, create an additional (small) drain on the Battery!

[Derek.w]

I use a BM monitor you can set the voltage at the point you want tobe notified.

You can also check its state of charge when you in the house providing the car within bluetooth range.

You best off charging the Battery before its down to 12.2 volts but it will still start at this voltage.

Your 11.8 volts is at the point it will not start exspecilly if this is standing voltage not load voltage.

[UncleZen]

So, as mentioned, I've been monitoring the 12v Battery voltage every morning  and every night. It's mainly been between 11.8v to 11.9v, so fairly consistent, but never over 12v. This morning at 10am is was 11.85v and by 1330 it was 9.3v and won't start. Car has not moved and has been locked. See pic.

 

 

[UncleZen]

Called Toyota breakdown recovery which in turn sent an AA van, who tested the Battery (45ah)

[TonyHSD]

The voltage measurement below 12v were an indication that your Battery is low and requires attention. If you were to fully charge with external charger overnight then Battery couldn’t have been saved. If you did and still that happened afterwards your Battery been already discharged below healthy threshold and killed.
The cars usually can start will as low as 10v but below that obviously they can not. 
The car requires a new battery and if you don’t drive often for 30 min plus each time  best to recharge once in a while. My dad has same issues with standard petrol car  with huge battery 74ah , the reason is simple- lack of use. 

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, UncleZen said:

So, as mentioned, I've been monitoring the 12v battery voltage every morning and every night. It's mainly been between 11.8v to 11.9v, so fairly consistent, but never over 12v. This morning at 10am is was 11.85v and by 1330 it was 9.3v and won't start. Car has not moved and has been locked...

36 minutes ago, UncleZen said:

Called Toyota breakdown recovery which in turn sent an AA van, who tested the battery (45ah)

Locking and unlocking the car etc. without putting it into Ready mode for a period will place an additional drain on the Battery. Opening a door will cause the system to prime the brake hydraulics so that the car is ready to go etc.. So your test process is exacerbating the problem ...

I don't entirely trust the AA 'test' - all he appears to have done is repeat the voltage test that you have already done and concluded that you need a new Battery ... which, of course, the AA will be happy to sell you!

Have you put the Battery on charge for 24 hours to get the battery fully charged? If not, that might be something to try next. If you have and you are still having these issues it seems probable that the battery is faulty. (I think that's what TonyHSD is saying above.)

I suggest that the next step is then to get the dealer to look at the issue. Assuming that the battery has failed within four months of you having the car it should be replaced under warranty.

A battery certainly should last more than 18 months from new, but it is just possible that the car was left standing for an extended period before you bought it and that resulted in a very flat battery causing irreparable damage.

[UncleZen]

The car is already booked in for next week, I forgot to mention that, and I think that it was standing for a while before I bought it.

When I asked, the aa Battery test was a resistance check. He wouldn't sell me a new Battery because his computer told him that was not allowed if the car is less than 5yo (I saw this on the screen in the cab).

Catch 22: I cant measure the voltage without opening the hatchback door and consuming more energy from the Battery.

[Derek.w]

If you open the door just to test the Battery voltage then use the passenger door less dranage as less computers ect start up.

Add 0.2 or 0.3 volts to your reading for Battery voltage without boot door open.

PS is boot light on at the time the door is open using more Battery power

Have you tried just charging the battery from the mains and see how long it last in days not used?.

From there decide if you need a new battery then charge it up once a week if reading are good increase the days between charges.

You can also have a BM monitor fitted with a new battery then you can check its voltage without opening the car or even from the house.

[Roy124]

Two  points.   You can test the voltage using the positive terminal on the fuse box under the bonnet thus avoiding any spike depression. 

I have 3 similar volt meters.   Their readings vary slightly. 

I bought a BM6 Battery monitor,  its voltage readout was different again.  I believe the BM6 is more accurate. 

Your readings might be within tolerance of the test instrument.

[TonyHSD]

Indeed. If you would like to measure the 12v Battery within losing some power, unlock the car and open passenger door, stretching through left seat open bonnet and test via jump start point located in the fuse box as Roy mentioned. And yes , many cars even brand new one had been left seating around for some time before they get to their owners hands., time enough to kill their batteries. These connected services and people are tracking their new builds motors comes at a price. 👍

[CruxisCore]

If it got flat twice within a week, that 12v is likely already toast and will fail you in the future too. A jump starter is a relatively cheap insurance that you at least get where you need to, even if you likely still need to address the Battery properly later.

[UncleZen]

Dealership found no issues with the Battery and decided that it needed a jolly  good charge. They suggested i drive it at least 1x20min+ journey per week (which i do)

The service technician said that in his opinion the Battery needs replacing, but they have to follow the Toyota procedures. 

He said this is an issue with all the Toyota hybrids but the chr seems to be the worse culprit. 

They suggest getting a solar trickle charge or a Jump pack.

At least the didn't charge me (£££) for the diagnostic or the loan car.

I have a service in 2 months. I said I would feed back to them, if it happens again.

Oh well. 

[philip42h]

The general rule from Toyota was that we should be in Ready mode for at least 1 hour per week. That 1 hour would add sufficient charge to compensate for the remaining 167 hours that the car is standing. 

That would mean that if the Battery started out fully charged it would remain more or less fully charged. If the Battery was low on charge and giving problems, it would remain low on charge and giving problems. So it is important to get the Battery to a reasonable state of charge and then keep it that way.

If you drive for more than 1 hour per week the car will stand for correspondingly less and the battery should become fully charged over time.

Did the garage fully charge the battery for you? If not you still need to do that for yourself and that is best done with a charger rather than a 'six' hour drive. (I don't know how long it would actually take to fully charge the battery but it is going to be a reasonably long time! 😉 )

And then, if that resolves your issue, great; if not I'd cut my losses and simply replace the battery. Yes, the garage should, probably, do it for you but you have to decide which route is less hassle.

I believe that the C-HR is equipped with a 45Ah battery (the RAV4 certainly is). Yuasa make decent batteries (other makes are available) and offer 45Ah, 52Ah and 54Ah options that fit within the same profile and dimensions as the OEM battery. I'd put in a Yuasa YBX5012 - the 54Ah version - and, hopefully, be done with the problem. (You would need to check the dimensions rather than just take my word for it! 🙂 )

[TonyHSD]

14 hours ago, UncleZen said:

Dealership found no issues with the battery and decided that it needed a jolly  good charge. They suggested i drive it at least 1x20min+ journey per week (which i do)

The service technician said that in his opinion the battery needs replacing, but they have to follow the Toyota procedures. 

He said this is an issue with all the Toyota hybrids but the chr seems to be the worse culprit. 

They suggest getting a solar trickle charge or a Jump pack.

At least the didn't charge me (£££) for the diagnostic or the loan car.

I have a service in 2 months. I said I would feed back to them, if it happens again.

Oh well. 

The service technician seems to be right imo. Once a Battery goes flat a damage is done and then after rarely happens to be saved.
Most cases requires a new Battery. The current one may pass test as ok but it will not hold charge and even can die after a long journey or while driving the car and make your car not possible to start, well known cases from practice. 
Keeping up in ready mode summer time 30-40 min are usually enough  to revitalise a low voltage Battery up to its full charge which is from as low as 12.2v up to 13v.
Solar chargers or jump packs are inconvenient solutions and works in certain conditions and scenarios but adds on unnecessary clutter and hassle.  

Jump pack is to keep you going, good if you have a number of cars that cause problems from time to time.

Solar charger if you live out over a week without use, holiday , airport parking, medical reasons no drive etc. and you need a sunny days. 

A smart charger is the best solution and connect once in a while to compensate the normal battery charge due to a lack of use for example.

If me on the next time when the battery die again I will request the dealer to replace under warranty. Will argue that the car been delivered with faulty or low voltage battery, an inherited condition and new battery is needed as warranty replacement.
Then will switch off all auto settings including connected services if of no use and recharge the battery once a month with smart charger, problem solved for ever.