Yaris not starting in the rain

[KennedyMC]

Just wondering if anyone else has had or heard of this problem? I’ve an automatic 2013 Yaris t spirit 1.3L. I’ve had the car to 3 mechanics and a spark and none of them have been able to fix this. Every time it rains the car won’t start the next day whether it’s been drove the previous day or not. At one point it got bad enough that an hour after driving and it sitting in the drive it wouldn’t start. It’s moved on now to sometimes when it’s dry it also doesn’t start but it does seem mostly related to rain. I’ve a new Battery and apparently spark plugs, started motor and fuses have been checked. I came across this site and thought it would be worth while asking as it’s becoming a pain as you can imagine. 

[Bernard Foy]

Oh that’s a big pain, considering how often it rains in Ireland especially. Hopefully someone will chime in with a solution for you, you seem to have all the obvious ones ruled out.

[DerekHa]

Hi Kennedy,

Can only speak in general terms as I've never worked on a 1.3 Yaris although I did once have the 2008 model which I think is the same as yours but never had any trouble with it.

If you have starting problems in wet weather my instinct would be to check the coil packs and plugs. It's possible to get dirt around the top of the coil packs and it can work it's way under the rubber seals. Dirty/dust around there will absorb any moisture in weather like we've been having and the two together can lead to tracking of the high tension current that produces the spark.

Strange that the car won't start at all as it's more usual to have a misfire which will likely clear up once the engine and coil packs have got nicely wamred up. Suggest you start by taking the coil packs off giving them a good clean along with the recessed spark plug opening. A clean of the sparkplug insulator could help as well but you'll need to remove the plugs to do that. If the plugs aren't in decent condition would be worth replacing them with new ones too.

Hope you get sorted Kennedy.

 

[KennedyMC]

6 minutes ago, DerekHa said:

Hi Kennedy,

Can only speak in general terms as I've never worked on a 1.3 Yaris although I did once have the 2008 model which I think is the same as yours but never had any trouble with it.

If you have starting problems in wet weather my instinct would be to check the coil packs and plugs. It's possible to get dirt around the top of the coil packs and it can work it's way under the rubber seals. Dirty/dust around there will absorb any moisture in weather like we've been having and the two together can lead to tracking of the high tension current that produces the spark.

Strange that the car won't start at all as it's more usual to have a misfire which will likely clear up once the engine and coil packs have got nicely wamred up. Suggest you start by taking the coil packs off giving them a good clean along with the recessed spark plug opening. A clean of the sparkplug insulator could help as well but you'll need to remove the plugs to do that. If the plugs aren't in decent condition would be worth replacing them with new ones too.

Hope you get sorted Kennedy.

 

Hi Derek! I really appreciate you replying, I’ll definitely give it a go! 

[DerekHa]

14 minutes ago, KennedyMC said:

Hi Derek! I really appreciate you replying, I’ll definitely give it a go! 

What mileage has the Yaris done? Also have the sparkplugs been changed regularly? Think it's recommended to be done every 30k (miles) but may need changing earlier. From what many say on here it also best practice if you change the sparkplugs to get Denso ones as they're best suited to Toyota.

Be good to know how you get on Kennedy.

[Mooly]

1 hour ago, KennedyMC said:

I’ve a new battery and apparently spark plugs, started motor and fuses have been checked.

What actually happens when you try and start it? You need to first of all narrow the problem area down. For example:

Does the dash light up as normal when you turn the ignition on?

Does the engine spin round on the starter at a normal speed as you turn the key?

Could it be an immobiliser issue? Is the car 100% standard or has it any aftermarket security added?

[KennedyMC]

36 minutes ago, DerekHa said:

What mileage has the Yaris done? Also have the sparkplugs been changed regularly? Think it's recommended to be done every 30k (miles) but may need changing earlier. From what many say on here it also best practice if you change the sparkplugs to get Denso ones as they're best suited to Toyota.

Be good to know how you get on Kennedy.

Only 40K miles, I’m unsure if they’ve been changed but I think the mechanic checked them though I will double check with him! I really do appreciate your reply and I’ll let you know how I get on

[KennedyMC]

15 minutes ago, Mooly said:

What actually happens when you try and start it? You need to first of all narrow the problem area down. For example:

Does the dash light up as normal when you turn the ignition on?

Does the engine spin round on the starter at a normal speed as you turn the key?

Could it be an immobiliser issue? Is the car 100% standard or has it any aftermarket security added?

Hi there, it varies when starting it when it’s dead. The car is keyless entry and start so sometimes the doors won’t even unlock and I’ll have to open manually with key. Other times it will make a clicking noise on the left hand side of the dash when I press the button to start. Sometimes the dash lights come on and others there is no power at all depending on how dead the Battery is.  Unfortunately I don’t know much about cars to be able to answer your other questions but I do appreciate your reply! I’m pretty sure the car is just standard and I will definitely mention to my mechanic about the immobiliser. Thanks again

[DerekHa]

1 hour ago, KennedyMC said:

Hi there, it varies when starting it when it’s dead. The car is keyless entry and start so sometimes the doors won’t even unlock and I’ll have to open manually with key. Other times it will make a clicking noise on the left hand side of the dash when I press the button to start. Sometimes the dash lights come on and others there is no power at all depending on how dead the battery is.  Unfortunately I don’t know much about cars to be able to answer your other questions but I do appreciate your reply! I’m pretty sure the car is just standard and I will definitely mention to my mechanic about the immobiliser. Thanks again

 

[DerekHa]

Just now, DerekHa said:

 

 

1 hour ago, KennedyMC said:

Hi there, it varies when starting it when it’s dead. The car is keyless entry and start so sometimes the doors won’t even unlock and I’ll have to open manually with key. Other times it will make a clicking noise on the left hand side of the dash when I press the button to start. Sometimes the dash lights come on and others there is no power at all depending on how dead the battery is.  Unfortunately I don’t know much about cars to be able to answer your other questions but I do appreciate your reply! I’m pretty sure the car is just standard and I will definitely mention to my mechanic about the immobiliser. Thanks again

Second try!

From your more detailed description Kennedy I'll take back my first suggestion as those symptoms don't sound like anything to do with the coil packs, much more fundimental than that it seems as you can't turn the engine over sometimes.

Was a new Battery fitted in an effort to resolve this?

From some of what you describe it sounds like you may have something causing a Battery drain, i.e. having no power or dash lights. The clicking noise you hear from behind the dash could actually be a problem with the starter motor/solenoid which are at the back of the engine compartment close to the bulkhead/firewall. Think you're likely to need a good auto-electrician on this.

 

[KennedyMC]

1 minute ago, DerekHa said:

 

Second try!

From your more detailed description Kennedy I'll take back my first suggestion as those symptoms don't sound like anything to do with the coil packs, much more fundimental than that it seems as you can't turn the engine over sometimes.

Was a new battery fitted in an effort to resolve this?

From some of what you describe it sounds like you may have something causing a battery drain, i.e. having no power or dash lights. The clicking noise you hear from behind the dash could actually be a problem with the starter motor/solenoid which are at the back of the engine compartment close to the bulkhead/firewall. Think you're likely to need a good auto-electrician on this.

 

Thanks again Derek. The new Battery was one of the attempts to fix it, I’ll look into getting the starter motor/solenoid checked too and I’m going to order new spark plugs just to be sure! Been going on so long with no solutions from anyone I’ve took it too so I’m willing to try anything at this point because it’s such a good car with low mileage for the age of it and its never caused me trouble bar this. 

[DerekHa]

3 minutes ago, KennedyMC said:

Thanks again Derek. The new battery was one of the attempts to fix it, I’ll look into getting the starter motor/solenoid checked too and I’m going to order new spark plugs just to be sure! Been going on so long with no solutions from anyone I’ve took it too so I’m willing to try anything at this point because it’s such a good car with low mileage for the age of it and its never caused me trouble bar this. 

Would be best to identify the problem first Kennedy. You can spend an aweful amount of money chasing things like this! If the plugs are fairly new along with the Battery then they're unlikely to be your problem so long as they've been fitted and adjusted properly.

One other thing I can think of. What interior lights do you have in the car? Is there a boot/cargo area light or a glovebox light. Have known these to cause flat batteries in the past if the switch controlling them sticks or jams on, the lights are on constantly and during the daytime it's easy to miss the fact they're on when they should be off. Fairly easy to check and should cost nothing.

[Derek.w]

KennedyMC

I suggest spraying the High Voltage electrics/coil packs with a silicone spray but not on a day its raining or damp.

If you remove a coil pack dont overighten them torque wrench settings is 8Nm.

If you do remove them.

Check condition of spark plug cover for tracking and cracks.

[Mooly]

2 hours ago, KennedyMC said:

The car is keyless entry and start so sometimes the doors won’t even unlock and I’ll have to open manually with key. Other times it will make a clicking noise on the left hand side of the dash when I press the button to start. Sometimes the dash lights come on and others there is no power at all depending on how dead the battery is.

A big clue in all this is whether the Battery really is going flat or not. That's a vital piece of the puzzle. Doors not unlocking and the clicking sound (which could well be a relay you hear... and it doesn't mean it is faulty) all suggest a low Battery voltage as a possible reason.

When it is like this and will not start the next thing to do is actually just measure the Battery voltage at the battery terminals. Any cheap multimeter will do that. You could then try turning the headlights on and seeing if they are bright or not and crucially whether the voltage fall away. If it does then a low voltage is the probable reason but not ultimately the cause...

If the battery is going flat then it could be something as simple as courtesy light not going out (any in the luggage area) or something like a leaky diode pack in the alternator (which is not that uncommon). 

So seeing what the battery voltage is when it won't behave is the first thing to do also checking the voltage under a load such as headlights.   

[KennedyMC]

4 minutes ago, DerekHa said:

Would be best to identify the problem first Kennedy. You can spend an aweful amount of money chasing things like this! If the plugs are fairly new along with the battery then they're unlikely to be your problem so long as they've been fitted and adjusted properly.

One other thing I can think of. What interior lights do you have in the car? Is there a boot/cargo area light or a glovebox light. Have known these to cause flat batteries in the past if the switch controlling them sticks or jams on, the lights are on constantly and during the daytime it's easy to miss the fact they're on when they should be off. Fairly easy to check and should cost nothing.

Yeah it’s been a long time trying to find the cause! There is lights in the boot and glovebox! I will try checking them ☺️

[KennedyMC]

3 minutes ago, Mooly said:

A big clue in all this is whether the battery really is going flat or not. That's a vital piece of the puzzle. Doors not unlocking and the clicking sound (which could well be a relay you hear... and it doesn't mean it is faulty) all suggest a low battery voltage as a possible reason.

When it is like this and will not start the next thing to do is actually just measure the battery voltage at the battery terminals. Any cheap multimeter will do that. You could then try turning the headlights on and seeing if they are bright or not and crucially whether the voltage fall away. If it does then a low voltage is the probable reason but not ultimately the cause...

If the battery is going flat then it could be something as simple as courtesy light not going out (any in the luggage area) or something like a leaky diode pack in the alternator (which is not that uncommon). 

So seeing what the battery voltage is when it won't behave is the first thing to do also checking the voltage under a load such as headlights.   

Thank you! I’ll try checking lights and also the Battery voltage. Appreciate your help ☺️

[Mooly]

4 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

I suggest spraying the High Voltage electrics/coil packs with a silicone spray but not on a day its raining or damp.

I would really caution against that tbh, the packs are fully encapsulated and the HT system is not like cars of old with exposed HV wiring and distributor caps. The wiring and trigger signal to the packs is low voltage. There is no exposed path for conduction of the HV. Long term any such spray could actually attract dust and grime. 

In any case I think the fact it won't even unlock shows the problems are elsewhere. 

[DerekHa]

2 minutes ago, KennedyMC said:

Yeah it’s been a long time trying to find the cause! There is lights in the boot and glovebox! I will try checking them ☺️

Best to check when it's dark, a lot easier to see if they're working properly and also more likely you'll be able to see the bulbs are on when they shouldn't be.

[KennedyMC]

10 minutes ago, Mooly said:

I would really caution against that tbh, the packs are fully encapsulated and the HT system is not like cars of old with exposed HV wiring and distributor caps. The wiring and trigger signal to the packs is low voltage. There is no exposed path for conduction of the HV. Long term any such spray could actually attract dust and grime. 

In any case I think the fact it won't even unlock shows the problems are elsewhere. 

Thank you!

[KennedyMC]

10 minutes ago, DerekHa said:

Best to check when it's dark, a lot easier to see if they're working properly and also more likely you'll be able to see the bulbs are on when they shouldn't be.

I’ll give it a go! 

[Derek.w]

HV packs can still brake down electrically but it can also turn out tobe a immobiliser fault.

Check that no 1 cyl is receiving a supply

I agree with the 12 volt supply must be 11.75 volts or more under starting load.

[Cyker]

I have a feeling water is getting into something, maybe some exposed wiring, and creating a short or something.

Maybe after it rains, have a look under the bonnet and look for water spots and water trails. I remember seeing a video about a Ka where water pooled on the engine cover and ran down into the coil packs; Once the o-rings hardened it'd start letting water in. Another one where the scuttle panel was blocked so water couldn't drain out where it was supposed to, and ended up being dumped on a connector until eventually it corroded the contacts.

[KennedyMC]

17 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I have a feeling water is getting into something, maybe some exposed wiring, and creating a short or something.

Maybe after it rains, have a look under the bonnet and look for water spots and water trails. I remember seeing a video about a Ka where water pooled on the engine cover and ran down into the coil packs; Once the o-rings hardened it'd start letting water in. Another one where the scuttle panel was blocked so water couldn't drain out where it was supposed to, and ended up being dumped on a connector until eventually it corroded the contacts.

Thanks for getting back to me! One of the mechanics tried running a hose over the car so I don’t know if maybe they would have seen this but next time if rains I’ll have a good look and see. I read another thing about water running down the engine cover as you say so will be worth just double checking. Thank you

[Derek.w]

Its not uknown for dampness to enter the coil plug (low voltage plug from ignition computer) because the seal has failed or even the pvc wire coating cracking at multi plug entrance.

Silicon spray dries in a few minites I use to use 3-IN-ONE and you cannot tell its on once dry dirt wont stick to it.

[KennedyMC]

4 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Its not uknown for dampness to enter the coil plug (low voltage plug from ignition computer) because the seal has failed or even the pvc wire coating cracking at multi plug entrance.

Silicon spray dries in a few minites I use to use 3-IN-ONE and you cannot tell its on once dry dirt wont stick to it.

I’ll definitely check them! Thanks again