Does '23 Gen 5 Corolla have one pedal/regen drive

[barrycoll]

At the moment I have a 21 2.0 TS, which we drove to Italy inJune....GPS set to No Motorways & No Toll roads, which made the trip across rural France wonderful.

But fascinated by the increased regen on th '23 Gen 5 cars, and am wondering if this is strong enough to allow for an (almost) one pedal driving possibility?

The ability to create regen by just a slight lift of the right foot sounds fascinating, and an interesting new learning curve, and am wondering if anybody has taken advantage of this possibility??

if it exists that is.

[simond64]

I have a 23 2.0 TS Excel, with cruise control u can mostly do a no pedal drive, it’ll do acceleration and braking and even curve speed reduction, without cruise control using PDA proactive driver assist much of the braking is also automatic, EV works right up to 70mph I think, it’sa major update over previous year models

[barrycoll]

Thanks Simon....

the radar cruise on my '21 TS 2.0, does the No-feet motorway trick, but interested in the 'pro-active driver assist', which i imagine is just a stronger level of regenerative braking.....eg lift the right foot slightly for a level of "braking", which is regen rather than friction.

it seems like I must be the only person fascinated by this possibility.

for the last 20 years I have been an Observer/instructor for the Institute of Advanced Motorists, where drivers are taught or encouraged to develop an 'acceleration sense', meaning looking well ahead and backing off early to use engine braking rather than friction braking, when problems are seen to be developing.

 

[AndrueC]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:04 PM, barrycoll said:

But fascinated by the increased regen on th '23 Gen 5 cars, and am wondering if this is strong enough to allow for an (almost) one pedal driving possibility?

I already do drive my 1.8 HB like that. I've been driving all my cars like that since I learnt to drive back in the 90s. As my old instructor put it "brakes are for stopping and for correcting your mistakes".

With an automatic you have to think a little bit further ahead but it's still perfectly possible to drive without using your brake pedal be that on the open road or around town.

There's nothing new about the concept. Minimising the use of brakes has been a corner stone of efficient driving since forever.

[barrycoll]

Your 2019 hatch doesn't have the '23 increased regen braking tho' Andrue, so there would be a learning curve to making best use of this new development.

if the regen is very strong, taking your right foot straight off the gas could put you through the windscreen.....well.....nearly.

[simond64]

2 hours ago, barrycoll said:

Thanks Simon....

the radar cruise on my '21 TS 2.0, does the No-feet motorway trick, but interested in the 'pro-active driver assist', which i imagine is just a stronger level of regenerative braking.....eg lift the right foot slightly for a level of "braking", which is regen rather than friction.

it seems like I must be the only person fascinated by this possibility.

for the last 20 years I have been an Observer/instructor for the Institute of Advanced Motorists, where drivers are taught or encouraged to develop an 'acceleration sense', meaning looking well ahead and backing off early to use engine braking rather than friction braking, when problems are seen to be developing.

 

PDA will show you down early, going round curves it also reduces speed, it knows about the terrain, traffic conditions and weather and what you did if previously been on that road, AI will decide on actions. 
safety sense 3.0 uses a better camera which sees further ahead and also the 5mph increments on cruise control are now 1mph. 

[Roy124]

3 hours ago, barrycoll said:

for the last 20 years I have been an Observer/instructor for the Institute of Advanced Motorists, where drivers are taught or encouraged to develop an 'acceleration sense', meaning looking well ahead and backing off early to use engine braking rather than friction braking, when problems are seen to be developing.

There was a school of thought,  more than 20 years ago, that it was cheaper to wear out brake pads rather than gear boxes,  though I concede simply lifting off is not positive braking.

With the hybrid it is not strictly engine braking but regenerative braking.

Anticipation where you arrive at the lights or roundabout as the road clears doesn't half irk the BMW driver intent on maintaining momentum notwithstanding the crash braking then necessary. 

I recall many years ago the RR chauffeurs under instruction were encouraged to arrive at a precise stop without using the brake.

[TonyHSD]

Toyota hybrids does not have one pedal drive. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

3 hours ago, barrycoll said:

for the last 20 years I have been an Observer/instructor for the Institute of Advanced Motorists, where drivers are taught or encouraged to develop an 'acceleration sense', meaning looking well ahead and backing off early to use engine braking rather than friction braking, when problems are seen to be developing.

That's interesting,it was an observer in the IAM who told me in 1982 that "gears are for going, brakes are for stopping"

Definitely not to use engine braking or changing down the gears to slow down, for the reason that there is no warning if the brakes have failed until too late.

Well I did not agree with that then , and don't now.

I check brake function every time I pull off the drive before continuing.

Ref Roy's post about RR chauffeurs, I remember a pal of mine who was a staff car driver when doing his national service in the army, was told to practice stopping with a glass of water on the bonnet of the Humber without spilling any.

He was pulled by the police in the 70s for no brake lights in a VW , well the brake lights did work, but he wasn't using them

Also I had a bike in 2004 that had a very high compression ratio, so if you backed off the throttle the engine braking in lower gears nearly stopped it.

I soon learned to touch the rear brake pedal when doing that to warn the lemmings following too closely, mainly on other bikes, to back off from trying to climb on my rear seat.

Of course, I realise that all this is different from regenerative braking, just chucking in my twopence worth about older driving skills.

[davejones22]

There is obviously the b mode for long descents but I confess I haven't tried this to know how strong it is.

FWIW our EV has a near enough one pedal mode and my experience thus far definitely fits with the general online consensus that more careful, predictive driving around times of acceleration / deceleration (i.e. avoiding uncessary changes in speed) without the extra regen is clearly more economical overall.

 

Perhaps this would be different in a hybrid, but for EVs it's pretty much an unnecessary gimic that seems to be being dispensed with as the technology matures.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, davejones22 said:

There is obviously the b mode for long descents but I confess I haven't tried this to know how strong it is.

FWIW our EV has a near enough one pedal mode and my experience thus far definitely fits with the general online consensus that more careful, predictive driving around times of acceleration / deceleration (i.e. avoiding uncessary changes in speed) without the extra regen is clearly more economical overall.

 

Perhaps this would be different in a hybrid, but for EVs it's pretty much an unnecessary gimic that seems to be being dispensed with as the technology matures.

Absolutely, very true indeed 👌👍

Regenerative braking is good but too strong like one pedal drive kills the efficiency and not helping it. The reason is simple, strong regen and too sensitive one pedal drive will add unnecessary slowing downs followed by unnecessary acceleration. The inertia and free rolling are lost and these are an important factors in high milling.
Every time the driver or passenger feel push forward to backwards means poor driving etiquette and reduced  range and efficiency. I used ride electric scooter before with 3 different sets of regenerative braking and the range was higher in low regen mode, same with evs, hybrids even ice cars.
Smooth acceleration , deceleration and constant speeds makes the cars more efficient and less horrible for the environment and the people around. 
One pedal drive not really sometimes that is so important.
Any Toyota hybrid can behave in a very similar way if you are careful and calm driver, you can’t stop completely though, unless you are going uphill. 

[Dylanfan]

On 8/16/2023 at 7:12 PM, Roy124 said:

There was a school of thought,  more than 20 years ago, that it was cheaper to wear out brake pads rather than gear boxes,  though I concede simply lifting off is not positive braking.

With the hybrid it is not strictly engine braking but regenerative braking.

Anticipation where you arrive at the lights or roundabout as the road clears doesn't half irk the BMW driver intent on maintaining momentum notwithstanding the crash braking then necessary. 

I recall many years ago the RR chauffeurs under instruction were encouraged to arrive at a precise stop without using the brake.

The police were trained to use there brakes for stopping, this was simply because brakes are much cheaper to replace than clutches and gearboxes; I don’t know if that is still the case.

No, I wasn’t in the police force!

[Don Mac]

5 hours ago, Dylanfan said:

The police were trained to use there brakes for stopping, this was simply because brakes are much cheaper to replace than clutches and gearboxes; I don’t know if that is still the case.

No, I wasn’t in the police force!

I think that the comparison here is between deliberately changing down gears to slow the car and braking to the desired speed, then selecting the correct gear. This would apply when you're looking for a rapid loss of speed.

The 'acceleration sense' Barry mentions, lifting off in advance to reduce speed when you're not in such a hurry, is a technique from the same book for different circumstances. The two are not mutually exclusive.

These days I think that the vast majority of police cars are automatic anyway, so the brakes vs clutches argument is a bit moot.

 

I'm currently learning how the PDA behaves. It can apply extra, unwanted braking in certain circumstances but I'm learning that you can avoid that with a gentle touch on either pedal.

[TonyHSD]

11 minutes ago, Don Mac said:

I think that the comparison here is between deliberately changing down gears to slow the car and braking to the desired speed, then selecting the correct gear. This would apply when you're looking for a rapid loss of speed.

The 'acceleration sense' Barry mentions, lifting off in advance to reduce speed when you're not in such a hurry, is a technique from the same book for different circumstances. The two are not mutually exclusive.

These days I think that the vast majority of police cars are automatic anyway, so the brakes vs clutches argument is a bit moot.

 

I'm currently learning how the PDA behaves. It can apply extra, unwanted braking in certain circumstances but I'm learning that you can avoid that with a gentle touch on either pedal.

Can I ask what is your average real world mpg from 1.8 TS 23 model? 
Thank you. 
 

[Don Mac]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Can I ask what is your average real world mpg from 1.8 TS 23 model? 
Thank you. 
 

It's a bit early for me, I haven't driven 100 miles in mine yet (and I'm shamelessly obsessing about economy).

It's showing 61 mpg overall so far, and the number is increasing.

[TonyHSD]

14 hours ago, Don Mac said:

It's a bit early for me, I haven't driven 100 miles in mine yet (and I'm shamelessly obsessing about economy).

It's showing 61 mpg overall so far, and the number is increasing.

Thanks. 
 

[RabButler]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:54 PM, TonyHSD said:

Can I ask what is your average real world mpg from 1.8 TS 23 model? 
Thank you. 
 

65 without trying.

[AisinW]

On 8/15/2023 at 2:04 PM, barrycoll said:

At the moment I have a 21 2.0 TS, which we drove to Italy inJune....GPS set to No Motorways & No Toll roads, which made the trip across rural France wonderful.

But fascinated by the increased regen on th '23 Gen 5 cars, and am wondering if this is strong enough to allow for an (almost) one pedal driving possibility?

The ability to create regen by just a slight lift of the right foot sounds fascinating, and an interesting new learning curve, and am wondering if anybody has taken advantage of this possibility??

if it exists that is.

Gen 3 and up has much more efficient transmission that glide along unlike inefficient gen2 MG2 braking when we don't press the gas pedal.  Gliding is the most efficient way of movement with minimum energy lost.

The braking in D will charge the Battery at max when braking slowly. B mode may be useful when the slope is very steep and we blow the energy out via engine braking. 

One pedal driving is one of the least efficient driving method because we remove the gliding parts from the eq. Very bad for environment. 

I never use B mode even in the steepest area in Mt. Blanc or Tyrol.  

 

[AisinW]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:55 PM, TonyHSD said:

Toyota hybrids does not have one pedal drive. 

I missed high efficient driving style when we use so minimal braking. American roads are wider, give notifications what speed ahead, and separated with yellow lines if they are 2 ways roads. 

Driving in Europe is more stressfull with tons of sudden speed changes and camera right behind them. 

Do new 23 Corolla can detect city sign and automatically change speed limit to 30mph?

[Cyker]

That's funny, my driving experience in the USA wasn't like that at all - I found it all quite confusing! It probably varies quite wildly state by state tho'.

From what I've seen, most european countries are pretty good with signage, although some do that thing we complain about here (Having lots of speed changes in a short space), and there are some (I'm looking at you Spain!!) who really need to up their signage game...

I never appreciated how good UK signage is before I'd driven in Spain!!  

[AisinW]

In the USA, all big roads have minimum signs because they are always priority even at 20mph zone. All small roads always have stop or yield sign. There is no diamond sign or priority road sign that need to be checked in all intersections. The speeds are also rarely change. 

Yes, USA have tons of stop signs if we are taking small roads. That what makes the main road safer.  Turn rights at red is allowed too. Some states allow to turn left from one way roads to one way road even when the traffic lights is red. In One one way road, the green lights are synchronised with the speed limit of the road. So, we rarely stops or brakes. Very effective and make sense. 

The roads are also slanted a bit to drain the water to the side fasters and the paints are always so bright and fluorescent. Very easy to see in the rain at night. I often hit the curbs when driving in the cities at night in France ror Germany. The roads border paints are cheap white paint without any fluorescent.  I have no idea either if they are one way or 2 ways because all are just white. No yellow lines. 

[barrycoll]

My last 25 mile mixed run showed 65.5 mpg with a Gen 4 2.0 TS. 
 

and once again using 'acceleration sense' to slow the vehicle, and so minimal use of friction brakes.

if Gen 5 hybrids have stronger regeneration on throttle lift-off, then subtle use of the right foot will increase regen while still allowing a glide.....but the accent is on "subtle "

My experience with Uber Prius drivers is that they have no idea on how to get best mileages from their cars, as my last Heathrow pickup was showing 47 mpg on the dash...perhaps not bad for a petrol automatic, but very poor for one of Mr T's finest.

Smooth driving was not part of this drivers skill set, as noses against windscreen was inevitable when coming to a halt....then best 0-60 time when taking off.

Depressing......

[Don Mac]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:54 PM, TonyHSD said:

Can I ask what is your average real world mpg from 1.8 TS 23 model? 
Thank you. 
 

OK, I have a bit of real world data - averages from the odo reading and the amount of fuel taken to fill it up. (the consumption figures that the car quotes do not bear much resemblance to these)

First 172 miles (in town driving)                   - 69.57 mpg

Next 310 miles (motorway/Lake District)    - 55.90 mpg             (fairly clear run, constant 60ish, heading south to north [uphill?])

Next 322 miles (return journey)                   - 79.43 mpg             (more typical motorway conditions, lots of radar-guided low speeds & stop start, car now run in!)

Total 804 miles, 66.60 mpg average

Really loved the radar-guided "follow the leader" cruise control, that took a lot of the pain out of the crappy bits on the motorways.

[TonyHSD]

25 minutes ago, Don Mac said:

OK, I have a bit of real world data - averages from the odo reading and the amount of fuel taken to fill it up. (the consumption figures that the car quotes do not bear much resemblance to these)

First 172 miles (in town driving)                   - 69.57 mpg

Next 310 miles (motorway/Lake District)    - 55.90 mpg             (fairly clear run, constant 60ish, heading south to north [uphill?])

Next 322 miles (return journey)                   - 79.43 mpg             (more typical motorway conditions, lots of radar-guided low speeds & stop start, car now run in!)

Total 804 miles, 66.60 mpg average

Really loved the radar-guided "follow the leader" cruise control, that took a lot of the pain out of the crappy bits on the motorways.

Thanks a lot for sharing that. 👌
Sounds really good, almost like Yaris and Prius efficiency 👍  

[Don Mac]

4 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Thanks a lot for sharing that. 👌
Sounds really good, almost like Yaris and Prius efficiency 👍  

You're welcome!

Something interesting that I noticed on the motorway was that the car would chip in with warnings about slow traffic or congestion ahead. I was using Android Auto to navigate, not the built in system (although that displayed a message saying that a route had been set on AA when I switched to it).

Can the car peek at the AA route, or was it just assuming that I would be staying on the motorway? I'm wondering if these alerts mean that it was also using the advertised forward planning abilities, where the car is meant to manage the charge level in the hybrid Battery in anticipation of things like congestion or long descents ahead?