Who's settled their Toyota PCP early?

[RonYarisX]

We're just about in to October and TFS have now replied with what they refer to as a  'Final response'.

Final !  😲  It's been their only response.

Regarding the mis-information: " That's an issue with Toyota customer services, you need to complain to them ". ( which I have done so some time ago without reply ).

Regarding the cost: They've unilaterally closed the complaint. "Contact the ombusman if you have an issue". They have refunded the monies they took AFTER I'd settled.

But get this, and this is my basis for complaint to the Ombusman and goes right back to the beginning of the thread - how do you know how much our settlement fees are?  We've already established that the 14days or 56days interest is rubbish. Thats what Toyota customer services say it is - that's wrong - not true - fake news.

TFS say it could be 58days but you're only made aware of that AFTER the PCP has been taken out and you gain access to your online account. Even then it's not obvious - you have to specifically go hunting for that info.  What about the 'We may charge"' part of the T&C?  They very conveniently ignore that area of my complaint. It's their 'FINAL' response so they can simply brush that under the carpet? Yeh right.

As for the fee itself?  Best I quote verbatim that section of their reply:

We do not have the exact details of the actual calculation as this is system driven, however, the settlement quote has been worked out in accordance with the actuarial rule and we are satisfied this is correct.

So there you have it in black and white. TFS admit that they themselves are uable to tell you what the fee is. And the only way you're made aware of 58days interest fee is AFTER you've taken out their PCP. The 'we may charge' wording is a pure and simple lie.

So the basis for complaint to the ombusman is how can anyone make a financial decision without first knowing the facts? TFS as well as any financial operator has a legal obligation to make their fees as clear as possible. You can't hide behind ' computer says no' which is basically what they're saying. If TFS had provided the information we know now, that settlement figure could easily have been avoided by simply maximising the deposit and minimising the length of loan.

Moreover, we still have no way of scrutinising how our settlement figures were arrived at. Could there be an error in their callculation? We've no way of checking. 'and we are satisfied this is correct.'   Oh they're satisfied !     TFS seem to think they can use the same accounting method as Nicola Sturgeon used for the SNP.   🤣

Anyway, the car is now mine but the saga continues.

 

On 9/21/2023 at 11:00 AM, TonyHSD said:

Last few checks at Carwow there were only around £600 difference between buying cash through them or getting pcp, so does it really worth going through this saga, in many cases most likely not.

How can we say that when we don't know what the settlement charge is? Even Toyota don't know what their settlement charge will be until after the PCP has been taken out and they run it thru their computer.  How crazy is that?

Look at the folk that replied to my question who said they didn't pay anything. But they did pay a fee, it's just that Toyota put in such a way they hadn't realised they'd paid it. And there was no accountability for it either so why should those owners have realised they were charged a settlement fee?

 

 

 

[jthspace]

19 minutes ago, RonYarisX said:

 

Regarding the cost: They've unilaterally closed the complaint. "Contact the ombusman if you have an issue". They have refunded the monies they took AFTER I'd settled.

 

I had to go to the Ombudsman just after Covid was at its worst; it was a complex case with a 3 letter acronym bank refusing a Section 75 refund.  It took until last month due to the complexity of the case and staff working from home.  They were fantastic and the investigator did everything in his power. The Ombudsman eventually found in my favour for a negotiated settlement and I was very happy with the result.  Good luck if you go to the FSO, it may take awhile but it seems that you have an interesting case to make.

[Mojo1010]

Haven't received a reply myself, so will expect the same now. Will be making a complaint to the ombudsman regarding exactly what you have said, it's not clear exactly what charge can be made. TFS made up the rules as most don't even know they got charge at least 56 days of interest. My interest comes to approx 270 on a 14495 loan. 

[RonYarisX]

On 10/27/2023 at 6:37 PM, jthspace said:

I had to go to the Ombudsman just after Covid was at its worst; it was a complex case with a 3 letter acronym bank refusing a Section 75 refund.  It took until last month due to the complexity of the case and staff working from home.  They were fantastic and the investigator did everything in his power. The Ombudsman eventually found in my favour for a negotiated settlement and I was very happy with the result.  Good luck if you go to the FSO, it may take awhile but it seems that you have an interesting case to make.

Well done. 👍 Yes, perseverance is essential in matters like this, but I'm under no illusion that the ombusman is last resort. The ombusman can only recommend, they have no legal clout. That said, your bank were wise to follow the recommendations because you risk loosing money if you go down the legal route against the ombusman's decision.

[RonYarisX]

My previous post - people added 'sad' and 'confused' smileys?

Simple question - why?

I would have thought this saga would be very helpful and a warning to anyone considering taking out a PCP and then settling. From what I can gather, thus far nobody seems to know how Toyota's PCP works. Including Toyota !

[Paul john]

14 minutes ago, RonYarisX said:

My previous post - people added 'sad' and 'confused' smileys?

Simple question - why?

I would have thought this saga would be very helpful and a warning to anyone considering taking out a PCP and then settling. From what I can gather, thus far nobody seems to know how Toyota's PCP works. Including Toyota !

Basically you pay for half the car and if your buyback value is worth more or equal to the second half you can “sell” the car back to toyota at the end of the pcp period. 
I

[Cyker]

30 minutes ago, RonYarisX said:

My previous post - people added 'sad' and 'confused' smileys?

Simple question - why?

I would have thought this saga would be very helpful and a warning to anyone considering taking out a PCP and then settling. From what I can gather, thus far nobody seems to know how Toyota's PCP works. Including Toyota !

I'd assume for sympathy, but also confusion at the responses from Toyota  

[Jimota]

That was the intent of my response as well.

[Benzowner]

Interesting thread. Not had this experience with Toyota yet, but did have with Nissan. Long story short, Nissan scheme you had to have the agreement running for a minimum of 6 months then settle no charges. Just wondered if Toyota run a similar scheme but don't tell you about the 6 months. If it is a similar scheme, it is bad they do not tell you at the outset of the agreement unless it's in the small print.

[RonYarisX]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:43 PM, Paul john said:

Basically you pay for half the car and if your buyback value is worth more or equal to the second half you can “sell” the car back to toyota at the end of the pcp period. 
I

 

On 10/30/2023 at 7:01 PM, Cyker said:

I'd assume for sympathy, but also confusion at the responses from Toyota  

👍

[RonYarisX]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:16 AM, Benzowner said:

Interesting thread. Not had this experience with Toyota yet, but did have with Nissan. Long story short, Nissan scheme you had to have the agreement running for a minimum of 6 months then settle no charges. Just wondered if Toyota run a similar scheme but don't tell you about the 6 months. If it is a similar scheme, it is bad they do not tell you at the outset of the agreement unless it's in the small print.

This is what's so annoying to people like me. I have no experience whatsoever about Nissan but if that's the case and people are being lead to believe they're not being charged then they're being mislead. The charges only fully manifest themselves if you settle before the first payment.

When I have enough time I'll have a look thru Nissans T&C ( if I can find them online ). I like the long stories because short stories often miss out important detail. 🤣

[Rhymes with Paris]

Aye, it's an old trick with actual contracts (not enforcible unless signed by off by someone who has not read the terms and conditions) and human nature, which is not either.

Get someone to agree with something, and then change the arrangements after all is agreed), it happens all the time,in social situations also.

Basic dishonesty to gain either financial or other advantage over others.

It's a great shame that open and honest dealing seems to have disappeared, and conditions intentionally hidden are used to take advantage .

Caveat emptor,as the Romans said.

[RonYarisX]

That's not what's happening R-W-Paris

Changing the rules after a contract is signed isn't the problem - if it was then TFS wouldn't have a leg to stand on. What's happening is they're making the contract so complicated that even Toyota Customer services can't work out what the T&C are let alone Joe Public.  Even TFS themselves are unable to calculate the figures !  They have an obligation to make their charges clear.

Second issue is they're picking and choosing the T&C that fit their agenda and ignoring other T&C. They haven't changed them though.

And third issue is there's no accountability. Think of it like grocery shopping at Tesco.  You take your basket of food to the self-checkout, you scan everything thru and the bill comes to £50.  You think to yourself that's more than I'd estimated, perhaps the till has taken the full price for that steak pie rather than the reduced yellow label price - so you look at the receipt to check.  But what if the receipt hasn't itemised your shopping - all it says is Total = £50?  How are you supposed to check the bill?  That's what TFS are saying - we're not showing you an itemised bill.

I'm not making out TFS are corrupt ( although it is a system open to corruption ) I'm saying they like everyone can make mistakes and I have no way of checking.  And the reason they can't provide us with an itemised bill is because they don't know themselves how the bill is calculated.   " We fire up the computer, we push buttons, we twirl knobs and it prints out a piece of paper with your bill on it.

I'm 100% convinced the ombusman will pull them up for that. Wouldn't have thought the taxman would be too happy either.

 

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

Ah I see.

I was generalising to include human and corporate behaviour too, have never had a PCP, so did not understand how exactly they work.

 

 

 

[RonYarisX]

Had a look for Nissan PCP T&C but come up with a blank, so not able to comment further.

Found two people on nissan forums who at least knew 100% what they were talking about which is quite rare, because like most forums, the subject is met with speculation, rumour and false information.  And that's not really the fault of the commentators, it's T&C that appear to deliberately confuse.

If the finance company want to charge 58days interest to settle fair enough, all they do is write in the T&C - a charge of 58days interest will be applied to settle the contract.