Dealer Servicing issues

[davidif]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:43 PM, ISL said:

Same here, both Hereford and Worcester. 

And Bromsgrove!

 

[marlot]

It's a big takeover - nine Toyota, and three Lexus dealers:

• Toyota Ashford
• Toyota Bromsgrove
• Toyota Canterbury
• Toyota Gatwick
• Toyota Hereford
• Toyota Horsham
• Toyota Stourbridge
• Toyota Tunbridge Wells
• Toyota Worcester
• Lexus Canterbury
• Lexus Gatwick
• Lexus Tunbridge Wells

Marshall’s disposal of its Toyota businesses is the second new car franchise it has exited since its summer 2022 acquisition by BCA, cinch and WeBuyAnyCar owner Constellation Automotive.   It previously sold its two Kia dealerships.

Steven Eagell now own  44 sites (32 Toyota and 12 Lexus)

[APS]

SE is worse than useless. Don't know their own products. Can't even get back to me when I'm waving money in their face - after being reminded four times in a fortnight. Returned my car without windscreen wiper last year. And yet I struggle to avoid SE as they've bought up most dealerships. 

Any feedback on Vertu in Leicester or Listers in Coventry?

[Starensis]

7 minutes ago, APS said:

SE is worse than useless. Don't know their own products. Can't even get back to me when I'm waving money in their face - after being reminded four times in a fortnight. Returned my car without windscreen wiper last year. And yet I struggle to avoid SE as they've bought up most dealerships. 

Any feedback on Vertu in Leicester or Listers in Coventry?

Listers are not good. Coventry are in a mess and Nuneaton just don’t deliver. In fact, they take the money and do half a job.

Steven Eagell - just don’t get me started in them! 😡😡

[Starensis]

Latest - they now accept pollen filter has not been changed! 

They will now re-service the car, video every part changed and service manager will handover the car to me after.

Technician concerned said he “ must have forgotten” to do it! 🤥🤥

[marlot]

Well done!

[APS]

7 minutes ago, Starensis said:

Technician concerned said he “ must have forgotten” to do it!

Which makes you wonder. What else has he forgotten to do?

Toyota workshops should be trained in lean and operate accordingly. in plain language; make every step idiot proof. Therefore, they'd have very clear procedures and check lists to work through ...theoretically. Then there's the real world.

In any case, nicely done getting them to own up. Shame you had to go through all that effort to begin with.

[Jasper.]

I find Listers in Stratford on Avon are ok so far unless anyone can tell me otherwise  ?

[Starensis]

2 minutes ago, APS said:

Which makes you wonder. What else has he forgotten to do?

Toyota workshops should be trained in lean and operate accordingly. in plain language; make every step idiot proof. Therefore, they'd have very clear procedures and check lists to work through ...theoretically. Then there's the real world.

In any case, nicely done getting them to own up. Shame you had to go through all that effort to begin with.

They actually said they kit parts for each service. So why did he not notice the pollen filter was still in its packaging when he’d finished? It’s all a con for them to sell on parts to make some cash!

[Big_D]

It's amazing how bean-counters get involved in almost everything and will do almost anything to save a penny or two - even at the expense of losing customers.

A classic example was with a customer of mine I dealt with a few months ago. They were advised to spend around £500 to address a problem they had. They decided it was too much money. To cut a long story short, it will now cost them in excess of£3000. Yes, the decision was made by the bean-counters.

O seem to remember an old saying. Spend a penny to save a pound

[AndyN01]

1 hour ago, APS said:

Which makes you wonder. What else has he forgotten to do?

Toyota workshops should be trained in lean and operate accordingly. in plain language; make every step idiot proof. Therefore, they'd have very clear procedures and check lists to work through ...theoretically. Then there's the real world.

In any case, nicely done getting them to own up. Shame you had to go through all that effort to begin with.

Ah, LEAN.....

We were "leaned" well, sort of. What actually happened was that the bits of lean the management "liked" were implemented and the bits that didn't "fit" the narrative/desires/bull were simply dumped. Then they wondered what was causing the issues with the lack of the results they were expecting......

AFAIK it's a philosophy not a check list to pick and chose from. It works as a whole, not on a "use the bits you like" and it takes a while to settle so you need folks who will look at the big picture and lead ad keep their nerve and not micro manage and count the pennies on a minute by minute basis.

Done properly it's very effective.

Andy.

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

There is an old saying "put service first, and you'll never be short of customers"

Trouble is all the incompetent and couldn't care less all have an abundance of customers anyway.

So service and care doesn't matter any more to the cynical and can't be bothered to do what they are being paid for.

Boiled down,it is fraud when customers are charged knowingly for work and parts that are not provided.

But there is no competition to go to when nearly all of them run similar , smile to your face, charge you top whack for poor workmanship at best, and laugh at you being a dupe.

Having said that,it seems that JVS here in Lincolnshire are honest, going by them replacing the road springs on my Tsport for the MOT earlier this year.

[APS]

3 hours ago, AndyN01 said:

Ah, LEAN.....

We were "leaned" well, sort of. What actually happened was that the bits of lean the management "liked" were implemented and the bits that didn't "fit" the narrative/desires/bull were simply dumped. Then they wondered what was causing the issues with the lack of the results they were expecting......

AFAIK it's a philosophy not a check list to pick and chose from. It works as a whole, not on a "use the bits you like" and it takes a while to settle so you need folks who will look at the big picture and lead ad keep their nerve and not micro manage and count the pennies on a minute by minute basis.

Thanks. Very interesting to hear your experience. And very true conclusion. 

It's a paradigm and requires a culture as a fundament to support the practices. As you say, you can't just slap some of the tools on top of your current routines and call it a lean day. The Toyota Production System (TPS), which is what Toyota in part is famous for in the industry, relies on deeply held values and espoused beliefs. For instance, having very set processes that are always followed is the only way that you can continuously improve (kaizen, 改善) upon them. It needs to be supported from the top down. 

Franchise dealerships are sent on training at Toyota, but I think a lot of it is ignored as most just don't realise or want to face the effort required to get the right culture. Furthermore, the high turnover of staff at dealerships isn't congruent with TPS where loyalty is such a key part.

Anyway, I'm waffling to the converted 🙂 As you say, when given enough effort and commitment, it works. 

[Saxmaniac]

Don't touch Steven Eagell in Wolverhampton with a barge pole. Terrible workmanship and the sales people are up to every dirty trick in the book. Funnily enough, they do at least have a spares counter and the chaps there are ok

[Derf47]

14 hours ago, Starensis said:

Latest - they now accept pollen filter has not been changed! 

They will now re-service the car, video every part changed and service manager will handover the car to me after.

Technician concerned said he “ must have forgotten” to do it! 🤥🤥

Where is the filter now, if he didn't change it? It must be recorded, if he withdrew one from the parts store.

[Roy124]

13 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

There is an old saying "put service first, and you'll never be short of customers"

In a word, TIMPSONS.

Shame they don't service cars.  I might suggest that to Sir John.

Once had an issue with Halfrauds.  Bought a Karcher, bit missing, went back, got bit, got home, another bit missing.  Manager did a 30 mile round trip with the bit.  I then realised I worked with his Dad 🙂

[Starensis]

13 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

There is an old saying "put service first, and you'll never be short of customers"

Trouble is all the incompetent and couldn't care less all have an abundance of customers anyway.

So service and care doesn't matter any more to the cynical and can't be bothered to do what they are being paid for.

Boiled down,it is fraud when customers are charged knowingly for work and parts that are not provided.

But there is no competition to go to when nearly all of them run similar , smile to your face, charge you top whack for poor workmanship at best, and laugh at you being a dupe.

Having said that,it seems that JVS here in Lincolnshire are honest, going by them replacing the road springs on my Tsport for the MOT earlier this year.

I’m struggling to find a dealer within 30 miles who I can trust now! 
Service manager said “If I was in same position as yourself, I wouldn’t come back here”. 
🤷🏼‍♂️

[Starensis]

48 minutes ago, Derf47 said:

Where is the filter now, if he didn't change it? It must be recorded, if he withdrew one from the parts store.

You might find it on eBay.

[Bper]

11 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

In a word, TIMPSONS.

Shame they don't service cars.  I might suggest that to Sir John.

Once had an issue with Halfrauds.  Bought a Karcher, bit missing, went back, got bit, got home, another bit missing.  Manager did a 30 mile round trip with the bit.  I then realised I worked with his Dad 🙂

Timpsons servicing cars, if it's anything to go by the price they charge for key cutting or shoe repairs, the only ones that could afford to use them would be bugatti owners.☹️

[Roy124]

Bper, had a watch in, Battery change, still did not work, returned with new Battery but no charge.

Took key blanks into two shops, but no charge.

New watch Battery, option for lifetime exchange.  MiL 98 so didn't go for a lifetime one.  Watch stopped working.  She didn't have her one year receipt.  They checked the system, found it, refastened the winder FOC.  It was her fault as she was ham fisted.

[Roy124]

22 minutes ago, Bper said:

the only ones that could afford to use them would be bugatti owners.☹️

BTW, my shoes are Bugatti. 🙂

Got them in a Dutch shoe shop, excellent shoes.

[TonyHSD]

16 hours ago, Jasper. said:

I find Listers in Stratford on Avon are ok so far unless anyone can tell me otherwise  ?

I had the worst car experience with Toyota bought from these guys back in 2016. They seemed nice guys however the car was a lemon and I had to take it back. In fact they should had checked better before sell and not hoping the customer won’t notice the issue. Perhaps the one who bought the car after me would had been happy if he or she never noticed the hidden issues. 
Dealers always been on the darker side anywhere around the globe. It’s just the nature of the business and the people involved in, not all but many. 🫥

[AndyN01]

14 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

There is an old saying "put service first, and you'll never be short of customers"......... and laugh at you being a dupe.

 

The last bit is the key.

There's a fundamental culture of it's good/great/marvellous/expected to "put one over" on someone/everyone else.

It comes from the very top of the tree down. Lie, cheat, steal etc. on Global proportions and "you're the one" doing the bizz.

IMHO it's driven by a simple thing - GREED and/or POWER

Sad isn't it.

Andy

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Dealers always been on the darker side anywhere around the globe. It’s just the nature of the business and the people involved in, not all but many

When I first glanced at the title I saw "Stealers Servicing Issues"

[Big_D]

10 minutes ago, AndyN01 said:

IMHO it's driven by a simple thing - GREED and/or POWER

This is so true. Unfortunately it seems that this is the way the world is going. Make a quick buck and move on.

What happened to the days where a business looked after their customers and their customers, in turn, looked after the business. A nice reciprocal relationship.

My Dealer has looked after me, and in turn, I support them - I've said this before, but hats off to Toyota Basingstoke