Speedometer stop working while driving

[BALIKBAYAN]

Hi everyone,

It was a while since I was here. Mostly because the cars have been running very good with no faults. But now I have got a fault and I need help to solve it.

Saturday afternoon while driving back home the speedometer suddenly stop working the ABS-lamp and the handbrake/brakefluid-lamp were lit. Suddenly the speedometer started to work again. I checked for fault codes when I came back home, but there were no faultcodes.

Today when I drove back home from work it happened again, twice. I took a short test drive a few moments ago. and it happened 4 times during this testdrive. I had the car connected to my tablet and I ran Torque lite on it. Torque lite showed a green dot , wich I assume means it has a value from that sensor, all the time even when there was no speed on the speedometer.

It feels like it comes when there are small bumps in the road or quick turnings. It feels like the fault go away while pressing down the clutch pedal for a while or some kind of bump in the road, quick stop with the breaks, or a knock on the steering wheel.

I discovered the last one when I parked on the front drive with the fault  on. I was drumming with my fingers on the steering wheel and it almost dissappeared.  With the engine stopped and the ignition key in the first position the abs-lamp and handbrake-lamp was partly lit.

 

To me it sounds like a faulty connection, but where? I suspect there must be a kind of wire from the gearbox to the ECU. As we were on a dirtroad Saturday before it happened first time. I heard how the grass hit the chassis underneath the car.

 

Has anyone on this forum had this fault before?

[yossarian247]

I haven't had this particular problem, but my guess would be a faulty ABS sensor, or the wiring leading to the one of the ABS sensors. I'm not sure if Torque Lite can actually read ABS fault codes so may explain why it's not picking anything up? 

[BALIKBAYAN]

Thanx for your answer. As far as I know Torque lite do read ABS codes.

If it is a faulty ABS sensor it would trig only the ABS-light and not the parkingbrake light .

[yossarian247]

I can't find a definitive answer as to whether Torque supports ABS codes on Toyotas, but braking systems weren't included in the original OBDII protocol so it seems that some ABS systems are supported and some aren't. 

It isn't unheard of for an ABS speed sensor fault to bring on a parking brake warning too, so I wouldn't rule that out. 

[Mushu84]

The car speed for your car it looks like is read thru the ABS sensor, I would check each wheel ABS sensor to see for damage or sensor cable rubbing, there is a possibility they need cleaning and also check the connectors maybe rusted or not making contact properly, but first check for damages

 

Once on a car of mine the tire touched and ripped the sensors cable, so at70 mpg no. Abs, steering or spedo

Don’t ignore is a serious issue

[BALIKBAYAN]

I have checked the abs sensors and cables. I can't see any damage on neither of them. It has rather new wheelbearings all around. I geuss they where changed 2-3 years ago. The abs-sensors are built in in the wheel bearings.

Is there any else who could give me some advises where to look for the fault.

 

[BALIKBAYAN]

I drove my wife to her job, because she had forgotten something there and then back home again. Suddenly the engine light came on. I checked wich fault code it was. It was P0500 wich is the VSS. I guess that is why the speedometer stop working every now and then.

I looked at autodoc if they had this sensor and yes they do have different brands and they cost not that much.

Now I have to find out where it is located. Most probably at a hard to get place...

[yossarian247]

As mentioned previously, the vehicle uses its ABS wheel sensors as the speed sensor. Again it points to a fault with one of ABS wheel sensors. I think the diagnostic software you're using just isn't able read the ABS codes for this car which is why it's not showing at which wheel the problem lies. Ideally you need Techstream to show which wheel sensor is faulty. 

[BALIKBAYAN]

No, it doesn't use the ABS wheel sensors as speed sensor. It use a speed sensor on the gearbox as speedsensor and the ABS-system use the speedsensor and the 4 wheelsensors. Please see below on part number 33403K. It is from:

www:toyota-europe.epc-data.com and the frame number of my car. As I wrote earlier that part is found at autodoc's website. Now I have to find it on the gearbox. I will start to look at the wiring as the fault is not all the time, but most of the time.

 

Click on the part subgroup below to get genuine part numbers.

Open full size scheme

Click part number in the scheme or in the list: 33030B BOLT (FOR TRANSAXLE CASE & TRANSMISSION CASE SETTING) 33102 COVER SUB-ASSY, MANUAL TRANSMISSION CASE 33104A GASKET, DRAIN PLUG (MTM) 31105G BOLT (FOR TRANSAXLE CASE & ENGINE SETTING) 33111J PIN, STRAIGHT (FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION CASE) 33111Q SEAL, OIL (FOR TRANSMISSION CASE) 33117A BOLT (FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION CASE PROTECTOR) 33101U PLUG, BREATHER (FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION) 33101V GASKET (FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION BREATHER PLUG) 33124D PIPE, OIL RECEIVER, NO.2 (MTM) 33124H BOLT (FOR OIL RECEIVER PIPE) 33121H BOLT, W/WASHER (FOR TRANSMISSION CASE COVER) 33104 PLUG SUB-ASSY, DRAIN (MTM) 33124C PIPE, OIL RECEIVER, NO.1 (MTM) 33101A PLUG (FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION FILLER) 33101C GASKET (FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION FILLER PLUG) 33111 CASE, MANUAL TRANSMISSION 33117 PROTECTOR, MANUAL TRANSMISSION CASE 33403L RING, O 33403K COVER SUB-ASSY, SPEEDOMETER DRIVEN HOLE 90119W0032 ** Std Part ** 43-01 ** 84-01

[yossarian247]

I've tried to find any sign of a transmission speed sensor on that diagram, and on the linked diagrams, and can't?

Edit: the only sensor I can see on the gearbox is the reversing light switch. There does appear to be provision for a mechanical speedo drive on that gearbox but it would seem that on your car it isn't used.

[Mushu84]

On 9/3/2023 at 3:19 PM, BALIKBAYAN said:

I have checked the abs sensors and cables. I can't see any damage on neither of them. It has rather new wheelbearings all around. I geuss they where changed 2-3 years ago. The abs-sensors are built in in the wheel bearings.

Is there any else who could give me some advises where to look for the fault.

 

If they read from the ABS sensor, that they usually do on most cars, maybe the wheel bearings are not with ABS giving the error, it happened to me with a car, missing from the wheel bearing the ABS strip to read 

[yossarian247]

I think the fact that Autodoc list a part number for a gearbox speed sensor may be a red herring. It seems that some Avensis T25 models in some markets weren't fitted with ABS. Obviously on a car with no ABS, Toyota would have had to fit a speed sensor to the gearbox to make the speedometer work. On cars equipped with ABS that isn't necessary.

 

 

[m456an]

I think abs was essential in 2004 for UK cars, when it became legal for other cars in different countries can vary a lot.

But looking at the diagram it appears to be for a manual gearbox, check this hole:

33403K COVER SUB-ASSY, SPEEDOMETER DRIVEN HOLE

Don't think this is for the reverse light, the magnet may be around this hole. 

Or just clean any electrical plugs going to the gearbox with electric cleaning spray or check the wires that plug into the front display?

[Fers]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:50 PM, BALIKBAYAN said:

Hi everyone,

It was a while since I was here. Mostly because the cars have been running very good with no faults. But now I have got a fault and I need help to solve it.

Saturday afternoon while driving back home the speedometer suddenly stop working the ABS-lamp and the handbrake/brakefluid-lamp were lit. Suddenly the speedometer started to work again. I checked for fault codes when I came back home, but there were no faultcodes.

Today when I drove back home from work it happened again, twice. I took a short test drive a few moments ago. and it happened 4 times during this testdrive. I had the car connected to my tablet and I ran Torque lite on it. Torque lite showed a green dot , wich I assume means it has a value from that sensor, all the time even when there was no speed on the speedometer.

It feels like it comes when there are small bumps in the road or quick turnings. It feels like the fault go away while pressing down the clutch pedal for a while or some kind of bump in the road, quick stop with the breaks, or a knock on the steering wheel.

I discovered the last one when I parked on the front drive with the fault  on. I was drumming with my fingers on the steering wheel and it almost dissappeared.  With the engine stopped and the ignition key in the first position the abs-lamp and handbrake-lamp was partly lit.

 

To me it sounds like a faulty connection, but where? I suspect there must be a kind of wire from the gearbox to the ECU. As we were on a dirtroad Saturday before it happened first time. I heard how the grass hit the chassis underneath the car.

 

Has anyone on this forum had this fault before?

To clarify about the fault codes.

Your software "Torque", reads only codes, that effects emission things (over simplified explanation), and cannot read other car modules where your trouble code is actually showing.

Like previously mentioned, Toyotas original software "TechStream" will show you everything, but to get the OBD dongle is not cheap (around 800€ it was I think), the software is cheap for 1 time use, it was like 5€ for 1 day if remembering correctly. Personally I'm not aware, which non OEM dongle works with TechStream software.

Alternative dongle with aftermarket software that "could" work, but not fully, that I'm certain, is called "Carista".