Long Term Ownership: Rav4 PHEV 2023 or BMW IX1

[Nicolai]

Please bear with me

I know this a Toyota forum and, as a result, people will favor the RAV4.

However, I have been cleared for my next car (for a disabled driver). The car must run for 8 years before being replaced.

As I need easier access and higher seating position, SUV is where it's at.

Aside from it being low and not having the best seats for 60 mile + journeys (I have a back issue), I've been happy with my Auris HSD TS and really like that Toyota now offers the 10 year "Relax" warranty.

Still, tech moves fast and there is no denying the full EV is more future proof than the RAV4 as a PHEV.

The range of the BMW is actually fine for my needs 98 (if not 99.5) per cent of the time. I have driven the IX1 and it feels well built.

But does anyone have any real experience with reliability, BMW warranty claims and customer service post purchase as well as service costs?

I know there has been quite a few "Drivetrain" of Drive shaft Issues causing the new IX1 to sit at the dealers. However, BMW seems to have issued an official recall for this issue now, so is perhaps taken care of?

I have seen Youtube video (not least Scotty Kilmer) describe older BMWs as "endless money pits". But EVs are more simple and ICE with less to go wrong.

Unfortunately, in Denmark BMW only warrants the cars for two years unless you pay a significant amount at the time of purchase / contract of sales which will extend the warranty to 5 years.

Still, this would leave without a warranty for the remaining three years.

With a walking disability, the boot of both cars most be able to hold a manual wheelchair and a semi-automatic crane which will do the lifting. AS the boots are similar sizes, I guess this shouldn't be a problem.

Due to the Danish tax system favoring full EVs over PHEVs, the RAV is more expensive than the BMW IX1 Xdrive 30 M Sport.

Also, in 8 years it will be almost impossible to sell a PHEV.

But I trust Toyota's reliability (even though as a model, the RAV4, from what I have read, isn't quite as reliable as the Auris), and I like the 10 years Relax warranty.

RAV will be more expensive to service too due to oil changes, spark plugs etc.

[TonyHSD]

Honestly bmw and the likes no matter if they are full ev, hybrid or petrol and diesel  all of them are unnecessarily complicated machines that will because money pit immediately after a purchased new and not when they get old. Some of them are nice to look at and drive them but remember, money spent on maintenance and repairs should not be an issue and you should have a thick wallet ready to be unloaded, otherwise you will be  much better with a Toyota. If you are after some more luxurious cars look at Lexus they have similar models which are simply a Toyota cars with better interiors and quieter cabins. People who buy and drive BMW’s and the likes never mind spending on them unnecessarily. 

[Mushu84]

If you look for an EV why not a B4Z? Is from Toyota so hopefully reliable and is EV making it more easy to sell at the end ?

[DAF XF]

Personally looking at it from the outside toyota have pretty much perfected and shown the reliability of their hybrid system and batteries etc over many years. BMW evs and the whole EV industry in general are newer to the game.

Go with the reliability and come 8 years down the line while your toyota is still under the relax warranty your BMW will have no doubt cost you a bit and be long out of warranty.

Think too the advances in Battery technology that there may be in that period of time and hopefully EVs will be cheaper (relatively speaking) if more commonplace by then with more choice of manufacturer too.

I understand your point about resale value but you'll be selling an 8 year old car who can predict what way things will be the BMW might have old Battery tech that almost renders it as out of date as the rav4 come that point. 

Hope you enjoy and have reliable motoring from whichever you choose!

[Flatcoat]

Go Toyota. Who knows what the industry will be like in 8 years. Personally I suspect the lemming line rush to BEV’s will be over and sanity will have prevailed allowing freedom of choice - remember that strange concept? (Always assuming we still have a semblance of democracy still in place). 

[philip42h]

10 hours ago, Nicolai said:

Also, in 8 years it will be almost impossible to sell a PHEV.

I doubt that you will get a terribly objective view of a BMW on a RAV4 forum ... 😉

But in 8 years time you will have an 8 year old car that won't be worth that much anyway. Over the next 8 years I would expect the EV technology to move on a pace meaning that an 8 year old EV will be pretty obsolete. Whereas, today's hybrid technology will be good for as long as ICE powered cars are allowed on our roads. Perhaps ... 😉

[FROSTYBALLS]

Pretty pointless question really.

None of us have a crystal ball, and no-one will be able to indicate what the market will be like in 8 years time for either used PHEVs or EVs.

Best thing to do is to try both the BMW and the Rav4, see which best suits your needs now, and decide accordingly.

Worry about what the market will be like in 8 years time, in 2031 ........

[Mike2222]

I know you've asked the specific question between the bmw ix1 and the Rav4 phev, but the only justification for this is the grounds that BEV is future-proofing, and the major concern appears to be aftermarket costs. 

You've said you're "cleared" for your next car, but I don't know if this means from a "the other half has agreed I can spend £45k on a car", or this is something to do with motability etc, but if you really want to try out full electric, you may want to consider alternative strategies. 

The new Fisker Ocean Sport is about £9k cheaper new, has a similar range to the bmw, has a 6yr/60000mile warranty, and has a similar boot (rated as 476L).

The Kia Niro likewise price as new and boot size, but is also available as nearly new, eg 2023 facelifted model in the low £30ks, and will come with the balance of the manufacturer warranty. The pre-facelift 2022 models are cheaper still (in the £20ks, depending on the mileage) with same range, boot size, and warranty. 

If budget is key, a 2023 MG ZS Long range is also in the £20-30k range, with a 7yr warranty.

You may have considered and discounted all of the above already, or may be ineligible due to motability etc, however some of these options would present a lower financial risk to dipping ones toe in the BEV waters. Personally, I think the RAV4 is also an excellent choice (DOI: RAV4 phev & Nissan Leaf owner) 

[Nicolai]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:22 PM, Mushu84 said:

If you look for an EV why not a B4Z? Is from Toyota so hopefully reliable and is EV making it more easy to sell at the end ?

The wheelchair will JUST fit in the boot of the BZ4X (seats up). But due to the sloping hatch, I would need to fold down the crane over the wheelchair for anything to fit properly (according to the company fitting the crane. Their guess is that, due to the more vertical opening of the RAV4's boot, the crane won't need to be folded down in the RAV4. The more trouble I have to go through to fit the chair in the car, the less likely I am to bring it (although I hope it will be seldom needed).

I will probably be able to fit some bags in the boot of the RAV4 as well (I prefer not to have bags in the cabin). From checking either out in the showroom, the RAV also feel more solidly built to me.

Has anyone had problems with the RAV4 suffering from "CLONK noises" when going over bumps and the like. Danish Facebook forum has quite a lot of owners experiencing this.

One owner said he considers the RAV4 a very problematic model? Very sad to read that.

 

[Nicolai]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:26 AM, Mike2222 said:

I know you've asked the specific question between the bmw ix1 and the Rav4 phev, but the only justification for this is the grounds that BEV is future-proofing, and the major concern appears to be aftermarket costs. 

 

You've said you're "cleared" for your next car, but I don't know if this means from a "the other half has agreed I can spend £45k on a car", or this is something to do with motability etc, but if you really want to try out full electric, you may want to consider alternative strategies. 

 

The new Fisker Ocean Sport is about £9k cheaper new, has a similar range to the bmw, has a 6yr/60000mile warranty, and has a similar boot (rated as 476L).

 

The Kia Niro likewise price as new and boot size, but is also available as nearly new, eg 2023 facelifted model in the low £30ks, and will come with the balance of the manufacturer warranty. The pre-facelift 2022 models are cheaper still (in the £20ks, depending on the mileage) with same range, boot size, and warranty. 

 

If budget is key, a 2023 MG ZS Long range is also in the £20-30k range, with a 7yr warranty.

 

You may have considered and discounted all of the above already, or may be ineligible due to motability etc, however some of these options would present a lower financial risk to dipping ones toe in the BEV waters. Personally, I think the RAV4 is also an excellent choice (DOI: RAV4 phev & Nissan Leaf owner) 

The boot of the Niro is too small and I just like the 10 year Toyota warranty. I don't like Chinese cars, so not considering the MG.

Car most be bought brand new.

The "Cleared for my next car" relates to my municipality partly paying for it due to my immobility. It's a great thing in Denmark, however, in return, I cannot replace the car before it turns 8 years old (at which point my municipality will, again, help me fund another car).

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, Nicolai said:

Has anyone had problems with the RAV4 suffering from "CLONK noises" when going over bumps and the like. Danish Facebook forum has quite a lot of owners experiencing this.

One owner said he considers the RAV4 a very problematic model? Very sad to read that.

The RAV4 is a remarkably problem free model. I just get in and drive mine (it's a HEV). There has been a recall or three for relatively minor issues on the PHEV (which won't impact a new car now) but that hardly counts as 'problematic'. It's a Toyota so it is really very reliable ...

I've not noticed 'clonk' noises when going over bumps - maybe these owners are carrying stuff loose in the wheel well in the boot? But it's a Toyota rather than a 'premium' vehicle. So, the engine sounds a bit industrial and 'shouty' if you push it hard and the cabin isn't the quietest on the road. You'd need to take one for a test drive before deciding whether it is up to the standard that you require - mine is perfectly good enough for me! 😉

[Phil E]

I’ve had Toyotas in my family for over 30 years and in that time apart from brake pads, tyres and routine servicing, I’ve had to replace 2 windscreens and a radiator.

That said, I have also owned BMW’s which have also served me well. I absolutely loved my 330D which I had for 7 years but was relieved to swap it for the Rav4 PHEV as I was just waiting for the next big bill to arrive. Even changing the brake discs and pads on the BM was an emotional experience. I didn’t think anything could compare to the 330D for performance and economy but I was blown away by the PHEV was when I first drove it and I still feel the same 2 years on

At the end of the day, I think you should go with whichever car you like the better as this has to be a big factor in your decision.

However, if longevity really is a major concern and you compare an out of warranty BMW with a Toyota with a 10 year warranty, then there is only one winner

 

[Renquist]

if longevity is your goal, I would go with the Toyota, and thats coming from a new Toyota owner coming from over 20 years of different BMWs