Supermarket Fuel

[anchorman]

I use mainly this because I can get it at a good price on my way to work;

https://texaco.co.uk/supreme99

[anchorman]

This is the cheapest high grade fuel.  I think I paid £1.38 for it at weekend.  

https://www.costco.co.uk/kirkland-signature-fuel

[anchorman]

This is where things get muddy in terms of defining “supermarket” fuel because Tesco and Sainsbury’s do a high grade option.

https://www.tesco.com/help/pages/tesco-petrol-filling-station-faqs/our-fuel/tesco-momentum-99#

My mate works for Derbyshire Fire Service and they have access to a mutt that can sniff out accelerants to determine arson.  They can then profile the fuel with an analyser to see not only which brand it is but where it came from.  They know the profile of base fuel “no additives” and every grade and seller.  The most basic brand to base fuel is Morrisons and then they work their way up.  There is a jump to branded fuels and a bigger jump to premium fuel.  These additives are expensive and that is reflected in the price.  All of them including Morrisons contain additives and all of them meet the British Standard for fuel which is largely about calorific value.  You can buy the additives but they are not cheap and they stink when they get on your hands if you’re patient enough to mess with them.  Or you can use the cheapest of the cheap and kid yourself there is no difference because you can’t notice it.  

[MikeSh]

So mainly links to big oil companies pr ... ?

And a sniffer dog.

Come on, you seem an intelligent person, so please explain (scientifically) why more detergents = better. Even I know that in a washing machine that can be worse, so it's not that simple.

[Eddiefh]

11 hours ago, dcweather said:

That was the title but the OP who started the thread was in fact predominantly comparing E5 and E10 in the main text of his first post.
 

"I also found the E10 fuel to run rougher, and possibly cause cold temperature mis-fire. It also sounds more gratey under heavy acceleration.

E5 (really E2.5 at the time I used it) was an improvement, but it still hit fuel economy.

To summarize:

Fuel with zero ethanol is the best. 95 or 98 octane works very well, and the car returns best MPG.

E5 (E2.5) sees about a 5% hit to fuel economy. So 66 instead of 70 MPG.

E10 sees around a 15% hit to fuel economy, because E10 is the full 10% ethanol, and compared to E5 (2.5%) is an increase of 7.5% ethanol. The resulting loss of power due to the ethanol causes the ECU to put in even more fuel and maybe even change its timing, causing a significant loss of fuel economy. I estimate this hit to be around 15% from what the car can achieve on zero ethanol fuel (so 70 MPG becomes 60 MPG).

In terms of supermarket fuel, I use Tesco Premium E5 99 octane, and find it to be fine. I ran my last car on this for years without any problems. Texaco E5 Premium also seems to be fine.

As for the price difference between E5 premium and E10 standard, the difference isn't worth worrying about. Go with the best fuel you can."

It's made for an interesting discussion but yes, it's up to ech person to decide which fuel  to use, especially if  they have the correct facts. 🙂

 

E10 = more like e6-7 

[Eddiefh]

 

[RonYarisX]

Where is this thread going?

All the petrol stations I go to offer E10 unleaded or E5 super unleaded - those are my only choices

Irrespective of any change in MPG between the fuels, the price difference means that E10 is cheaper.

There's isn't one study that says my engine is being harmed by E10. There isn't one study that says E5 cleans it. There's a little word all these people use and that's 'may'.  You MAY get more mpg. Your engine MAY benefit from additives. You MAY win the Euromillions tomorrow night.

People should do whatever they want to do, but as long as the manufacturer said their engine was designed to run on E10 that's what I'll use. If they said it can run on E5 and E5 was cheaper, I'd use E5. And if they said I'd invalidate my warranty by using Sainsburys then I wouldn't use their fuels. Back in the real world tho, they don't, so I'm perfectly happy to fill up using E10 and getting nectar points at Sainsburys.  My engine appears to be happy with this arrangement too, as have all my engines over the past 30 years.

11 hours ago, anchorman said:

This is where things get muddy in terms of defining “supermarket” fuel because Tesco and Sainsbury’s do a high grade option.

https://www.tesco.com/help/pages/tesco-petrol-filling-station-faqs/our-fuel/tesco-momentum-99#

My mate works for Derbyshire Fire Service and they have access to a mutt that can sniff out accelerants to determine arson.  They can then profile the fuel with an analyser to see not only which brand it is but where it came from.  They know the profile of base fuel “no additives” and every grade and seller.  The most basic brand to base fuel is Morrisons and then they work their way up.  There is a jump to branded fuels and a bigger jump to premium fuel.  These additives are expensive and that is reflected in the price.  All of them including Morrisons contain additives and all of them meet the British Standard for fuel which is largely about calorific value.  You can buy the additives but they are not cheap and they stink when they get on your hands if you’re patient enough to mess with them.  Or you can use the cheapest of the cheap and kid yourself there is no difference because you can’t notice it.  

That's a very good story but completely misses the point. Perhaps the sniffer dog will tell us what difference those additives make to the fuel, because nobody else can.

A nice mustard dressing makes my lettuce taste nicer but it doesn't do anything to improve my health.

6 hours ago, anchorman said:

I’m intelligent enough that I don’t need anyone to explain.  There’s several explanations coupled with the adverts, that’s more than three?  Don’t you understand?

There ARE several explantions, not there IS several explantions.

Apologies for my flippant remark, but I do like to point such things out after someone has just describe themselves as being intelligent 🤣

 

[anchorman]

1 minute ago, RonYarisX said:

Where is this thread going?

All the petrol stations I go to offer E10 unleaded or E5 super unleaded - those are my only choices

Irrespective of any change in MPG between the fuels, the price difference means that E10 is cheaper.

There's isn't one study that says my engine is being harmed by E10. There isn't one study that says E5 cleans it. There's a little word all these people use and that's 'may'.  You MAY get more mpg. Your engine MAY benefit from additives. You MAY win the Euromillions tomorrow night.

People should do whatever they want to do, but as long as the manufacturer said their engine was designed to run on E10 that's what I'll use. If they said it can run on E5 and E5 was cheaper, I'd use E5. And if they said I'd invalidate my warranty by using Sainsburys then I wouldn't use their fuels. Back in the real world tho, they don't, so I'm perfectly happy to fill up using E10 and getting nectar points at Sainsburys.  My engine appears to be happy with this arrangement too, as have all my engines over the past 30 years.

That's a very good story but completely misses the point. Perhaps the sniffer dog will tell us what difference those additives make to the fuel, because nobody else can.

A nice mustard dressing makes my lettuce taste nicer but it doesn't do anything to improve my health.

There ARE several explantions, not there IS several explantions.

Apologies for my flippant remark, but I do like to point such things out after someone has just describe themselves as being intelligent 🤣

 

You’ve obviously never been a mechanic or you wouldn’t be making misguided comments.  

[anchorman]

4 minutes ago, RonYarisX said:

Where is this thread going?

All the petrol stations I go to offer E10 unleaded or E5 super unleaded - those are my only choices

Irrespective of any change in MPG between the fuels, the price difference means that E10 is cheaper.

There's isn't one study that says my engine is being harmed by E10. There isn't one study that says E5 cleans it. There's a little word all these people use and that's 'may'.  You MAY get more mpg. Your engine MAY benefit from additives. You MAY win the Euromillions tomorrow night.

People should do whatever they want to do, but as long as the manufacturer said their engine was designed to run on E10 that's what I'll use. If they said it can run on E5 and E5 was cheaper, I'd use E5. And if they said I'd invalidate my warranty by using Sainsburys then I wouldn't use their fuels. Back in the real world tho, they don't, so I'm perfectly happy to fill up using E10 and getting nectar points at Sainsburys.  My engine appears to be happy with this arrangement too, as have all my engines over the past 30 years.

That's a very good story but completely misses the point. Perhaps the sniffer dog will tell us what difference those additives make to the fuel, because nobody else can.

A nice mustard dressing makes my lettuce taste nicer but it doesn't do anything to improve my health.

There ARE several explantions, not there IS several explantions.

Apologies for my flippant remark, but I do like to point such things out after someone has just describe themselves as being intelligent 🤣

 

Apologies for my flippant remark, but I do like to point such things out after someone has just describe themselves as being intelligent 🤣
 

I didn’t, someone else did.  

[Tommy X]

The "branded" fuel companies, Shell etc, claim their fuels have cleaning agents added to their fuel, correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see a supermarket chain make the same claim 

[MikeSh]

7 hours ago, anchorman said:

There’s several explanations coupled with the adverts

So produced by the oil companies' PR departments. That's what I understand.

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, RonYarisX said:

There ARE several explantions, not there IS several explantions.

As opposed to there are a number of explanations.  😉

[MikeSh]

31 minutes ago, Tommy X said:

The "branded" fuel companies, Shell etc, claim their fuels have cleaning agents added to their fuel, correct me if I'm wrong but I have yet to see a supermarket chain make the same claim 

That's because they don't spend £millions advertising.

This is from a Which? article (my bold ) :-

The key difference between different brands of fuel is the type and amount of performance additives that are added to the base unleaded fuel.

These include:

1 Detergents, which can prevent or even reverse the build-up of deposits on sensitive engine components

2 Friction modifiers, which lubricate the engine’s combustion chambers, reducing wear

The specific formula of performance additives added to each brand’s unleaded is proprietary to each producer, although even cheap supermarket fuel will contain them.span widgetspan widgetspan widget

[Dezzer21]

I think this thread could go on forever why don’t we all just use whichever fuel we prefer there’s no right or wrong.

[Parts-King]

This thread is almost as dull as the "I fill my tank when the fuel light is flashing but sometimes it takes £40 sometimes £42, why is that" Dull as **** just fill it up on half a tank, job done!! 

[Fangz]

I strongly suspect that if more expensive fuel does improve mpg, the folks who sell them would make them more expensive to counteract that difference. I mean, it would mean that they are selling less fuel as a result, and they are out to make a profit.

 

As a rule of thumb, the harder the selling party is trying to sell you something, the more they are aiming to make money at your expense. They advertise premium fuels harder than normal fuels, so there's really no way they can be saving you money.

[Dezzer21]

I think this topic should now be shut down as a lot of the comments are being disrespectful to various commentors.

[Eddiefh]

Needs shutting getting slightly bitter and this should be a place for help , and in 2 weeks a new fuel topic can start