Cars are a privacy nightmare ...

[MikeSh]

Is it foil hat time?

What does a car need to know about your s*x life?

(This is a Malwarebytes article)

[FROSTYBALLS]

Moved to General Discussions.

[Haliotis]

Personally, I think this is a load of rubbish, unless the “victim” is one of those people who put all their private details on social media platforms.

1) My Toyota dealer, and by inference Toyota, have details about me which are pertinent to my owning a vehicle - purchased from them and serviced by them - and nothing more personal than normally held by many other organisations (energy company, for example).

2) Mobile phone.  If used in the car (synchronised), the onboard computer cannot access and gather information from phone conversations - this would be totally contrary to Ofcom regulations and punishable in law.

3) The infotainment system is likewise legally prevented from covert listening to the car’s occupants.

4)Emails. These are confidential when received - the only access for predators is one’s email address, and they get no further unless the “victim” follows a link in the email.  I don’t even use the ‘unsubscribe’ button, because that can be disguised as a link.

It is possible for organisations to tap into social media talk, but that is because the “victim” has already placed themselves on a public platform.

I occasionally get threats of exposure because I have supposedly ventured onto pornographic sites, and money demanded if I don’t want my sordid deeds published.  All nonsense, and the perpetrators of such fear are only banking on the chance that they do latch onto a guilty person, and relying on panic to do the rest.  If they target enough victims, I suppose it’s only a matter of time before they get lucky.

I also regularly get warnings that my computer is infected with a virus - all untrue and simply ignored.

Yes, using the internet does require sensible caution - it is right that users should understand this, but trying to instil fear into people is going too far.

The most common trick to look out for is an apparently genuine web address.  Just one character (say an extra dot or a letter in the wrong case) creates a different, and dangerous, website.  So, if it is a site you think you recognise and feel you need to answer it, type the URL that you recognise into your browser and go down that route.

[jcps001]

Today's cars, and since model years 2013-2014 (even a bit earlier, in case of luxury cars), are all connected. We started noticing that when they started selling cars with that "SOS system" that can have a fix on you in case of a crash or even a just a malfunction.

Also, as many users report on this forum, those systems are very handy, when you need to locate a car that has been stolen.

I am not one against technology, far from it. But I'm against its use to repress, to oppress and to track you without any real need.

There are alarms about what this technology can be used for, and unfortunately, those alarms are not good. Really not good.

During and after the dreaded pandemik or "pandemik" (whatever you think of it), for me at least it is very clear that western governments are getting more and more authoritarian. They are using these technologies to stomp on our rights, following the examples of regimes like those of China, for example.

In China, during the lockdowns, chinese "connected cars" would not start, for example. You got yourself inside the car, did what you did to start it, and nothing. It was remotely blocked. Many western governments, lead nowadays by a "particular movement" (which I won't describe to avoid hurting sensibilities), looked at this with a lot of interest. A lot of interest. I know that. Believe me or not, I know.

This is alarming for democracies and democratic rules of law.

I love technology, but like all things it can be used for good or evil. Technology by itself is not the problem, the people behind it and the people that abuse it are.

I'm not against the existence of connected cars, as long as my rights and my freedoms are protected, and unfortunately nowadays that does not seem to be the case.

For now, I'll continue to buy older cars, or "low cost" cars.

I remembered just now that there was a chinese car brand, that sold/sells a car with freaky eyes on the dashboard... I don't remember which car it is, but I wouldn't like to own such a car.

EDIT: It's a "NIO ES8" and the "thing" seems to be an extra with the name "NOMI".

[flash22]

You're tracked from the time of your conception,

If you own a phone, pay bills or live in a house you are traceable

 

If it's man made, it can be broken or hacked

[Bper]

Privacy has been an issue for a number of years with the explosion of technology and the ability to use these devices for data collection. 

Very little in society is any longer private and it would be naive to believe that we either cannot be tracked or listened to via these devices. PC's regardless of the software installed, can be hacked remotely and the user would be none the wiser, the same goes for mobile phones.

Camera's in shops, streets and roads are often seen as deterrents for offences but how much of this data is logged and collected for facial recognition usage and movement data. Your shopping habits are collected by supermarkets. Government departments have records of passports, driving licence, tax affairs. Banks have financial data on your spending, income etc.,

Your internet browsing habits can be stored and VPNs whilst seen as a way of private browsing, relies on the honesty of the ISP not to store or log. 

Alexa and Siri and other AI devices listen and can record data, conversations etc., Social media sites have taken over some of the biggest data collection of personal information and make no secret of this as the biggest revenue they generate comes from selling data.

Car technology is no different, it can be also used for data collection etc.,

Governments while not openly admitting that they favour the Chinese methodology of control of population through surveillance and technology have adopted and will continue to implement this in the UK.

We like to believe that we still live in a democracy with fairness and rights and free will but this has slowly been eroded. The recent pandemic proved this and was used for both social and phycological indoctrination.

 

 

[Haliotis]

The organisations that collect ‘personal’ data (e.g., supermarkets) do not worry me, since we shop according to our wishes and are not driven by ads or commercial”bribes”.  We have no intentions of doing anything criminal, so CCTV does not bother us.  My wife uses FaceTime to keep in touch with immediate family, but I don’t even do that.

If you limit IT to only what is useful to you, and keep your private things ‘private’, there is no need to get paranoid about IT.  Social media sites are the ones on which to avoid spilling out your personal details.  This Toyota website is a social media one, but it will never get any more info about me than which I wish to divulge.

[APS]

Some perspective on this:

Ironically, these are sensationalist articles based on 'research' of car maker's privacy policies in order to drive clicks.

Just jump to the Mozilla foundation's notes on each vendor. This is also written as if by kids, but at least it's closest to the source. 

The sources are legal T&Cs where the manufacturers cover their backsides for future eventualities since by collecting data from multiple sources, they can potentially infer many things about their customers. It doesn't mean it's accurate or that they even will do it. For example, a driver fills up their car by 15-20% every other day at a filling station 15 miles away from home. This is not a very sensible, economical habit. Is this because they are not particularly bright, or do they have a love affair somewhere along the way, or some other reason?

Enrich this with telemetry from from other things like mobile devices and you can make stronger inferences. But, someone has to store all this data and in aggregate the volumes become huge. Hence, manufacturers will only really harvest and mine the data most relevant to them and that they can monetise. Then it will be flushed as it is way to costly to store it longer term. Sell the data to an advertiser, they may be able to extract more value but they need to understand the context - which they don't always have.

I'm not justifying car maker's collection of data or saying they are doing a good job protecting it (definitely not - they have done a rubbish job in the past with critical control systems being accessible from entertainment systems and they are still learning. Just look at the various CANBUS exploits. We should hold them responsible to a high standard). But take news articles like this for what they are and relax 😎

 

[Bper]

10 minutes ago, APS said:

Some perspective on this:

Ironically, these are sensationalist articles based on 'research' of car maker's privacy policies in order to drive clicks.

Just jump to the Mozilla foundation's notes on each vendor. This is also written as if by kids, but at least it's closest to the source. 

The sources are legal T&Cs where the manufacturers cover their backsides for future eventualities since by collecting data from multiple sources, they can potentially infer many things about their customers. It doesn't mean it's accurate or that they even will do it. For example, a driver fills up their car by 15-20% every other day at a filling station 15 miles away from home. This is not a very sensible, economical habit. Is this because they are not particularly bright, or do they have a love affair somewhere along the way, or some other reason?

Enrich this with telemetry from from other things like mobile devices and you can make stronger inferences. But, someone has to store all this data and in aggregate the volumes become huge. Hence, manufacturers will only really harvest and mine the data most relevant to them and that they can monetise. Then it will be flushed as it is way to costly to store it longer term. Sell the data to an advertiser, they may be able to extract more value but they need to understand the context - which they don't always have.

I'm not justifying car maker's collection of data or saying they are doing a good job protecting it (definitely not - they have done a rubbish job in the past with critical control systems being accessible from entertainment systems and they are still learning. Just look at the various CANBUS exploits. We should hold them responsible to a high standard). But take news articles like this for what they are and relax 😎

 

Who says any of this data dump of the information seen as less valuable is removed. Who deems this information is not useful for future use. The storage capacity of data. For example The IDC in particular has done good work on this: their team predicts that the global data volume will expand to 175 zettabytes by 2025. And an estimated 90 zettabytes of this data will come from IoT devices alone. Meanwhile, Forbes predicts that 150 trillion gigabytes of real-time data will need analysis by 2025.

Data is the most important commodity that exists and who ever has the storage and access to this will use it to its maximum advantage.

[Rhymes with Paris]

They'll never keep tabs on me.

I have multi level security on all these kinds of things, starting with a double layer of extra thick foil lining in my flat cap,it acts as a Faraday cage I think.

I usually go out in disguise 🥸 to fool the supermarket cameras, and street CCTV.

If anyone calls at the door,l get out my blood stained white apron and large knife, and say to the caller," this had best be important, I'm in the middle of gutting a pig".

Not many come round knocking and bothering me now

 

 

 

[Roy124]

"My Toyota dealer, and by inference Toyota, have details about me which are pertinent to my owning a vehicle - purchased from them and serviced by them - and nothing more personal than normally held by many other organisations (energy company, for example)."

if their appreciation is as good as the App we have nothing to fear.

When i contact my bank i enter all my detaiis.  When i get to speak with a human they asj for all the details i already gave them. We have nothing to fear. 

That said,  for some reason my card was blocked because of Visa Secure.  It took 30 minutes this morning of 'data diving' and tech support before they were able to unblock what they said was unblocked yesterday.   They could see all my failed attempts. 

[MikeSh]

According to the team's research, Nissan says it can collect “sexual activity” information about consumers. Kia says it can collect information about a consumer's “s*x life.”

I was really just intrigued by the possibility of onboard telemetry making an interesting interpretation of rhythmic suspension movements while the car is stationary.

[Cyker]

Hah, I thought the article was going to be about that guy's Tesla Sentry cameras recording him and the missus getting it on in their garage and the footage being shared amongst all the Tesla employees.

The thing is they were off the hook because the customer had ticked the "Permission for us to use footage to improve the product blah blah" box

 

[Haliotis]

The funniest thing I have heard (though not for the ones involved) was a press article of a guy who travels a lot in his job.  He was supposed to be working abroad, but his wife happened to collect a brochure from a travel agents, and when perusing it she saw there a poolside photo her husband with a young woman.  Instead of a holiday, the mood changed to one of a marriage breakup.  Now there’s IT at its most embarrassing.

[Bper]

4 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

The funniest thing I have heard (though not for the ones involved) was a press article of a guy who travels a lot in his job.  He was supposed to be working abroad, but his wife happened to collect a brochure from a travel agents, and when perusing it she saw there a poolside photo her husband with a young woman.  Instead of a holiday, the mood changed to one of a marriage breakup.  Now there’s IT at its most embarrassing.

In this case did IT stand for "illicit tryst".😂

[Rhymes with Paris]

5 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

The funniest thing I have heard (though not for the ones involved) was a press article of a guy who travels a lot in his job.  He was supposed to be working abroad, but his wife happened to collect a brochure from a travel agents, and when perusing it she saw there a poolside photo her husband with a young woman.  Instead of a holiday, the mood changed to one of a marriage breakup.  Now there’s IT at its most embarrassing.

That is a bit tricky.