Interesting Telegraph Article - Yaris and ULEZ (London)

[jthspace]

Q/ We have a 2002 Toyota Yaris. The V5 shows that the car is Euro 3, but the Ulez site indicates that it is exempt. We have used it a few times within the new Ulez zone with no fines. How safe do you think we are to continue using this car within the new Ulez?

– MG

A/ your experience highlights one of the most confusing aspects of the Ulez – one that’s caused many people to sell cars they didn’t actually need to (for now, at least). It’s been much-publicised that the cut-off for compliant petrol cars was the introduction of Euro 4 in 2006. However, TfL’s wording is actually that cars must meet the emissions standard of Euro 4 for petrol cars.

There’s a subtle difference here, because it means that a car doesn’t actually have to be registered under the Euro 4 standards to be compliant; it merely has to meet those standards.

And it’s worth noting at this point that many manufacturers were already producing certain models that complied with the Euro 4 standards long before they were actually brought in.

Indeed, as TfL points out on its website, “Petrol cars that meet the Ulez standards are generally those first registered as new with the DVLA after 2005, although cars that meet the standards have been available since 2001.” In other words, quite a few petrol cars made long before 2006 meet those standards. Your Yaris is one of them.

It strikes me that this is, for a change, a level-headed way to apply the regulations. Older cars that comply with the Euro 4 standards are no more polluting than their later counterparts that were made under the Euro 4 regime.

And given that, I think it unlikely that TfL would decide retroactively to change the wording of the Ulez regulations to exempt only cars that were made under Euro 4. It’s possible that in future the regulations will be updated to bring the emissions standards threshold up to match Euro 5, thereby forcing owners of cars that complied with the Euro 4 standards to pay the Ulez charge.

However, TfL wouldn’t be able to do this without a consultation process, which would take at least a couple of years. I think you’re safe for the foreseeable future.

[TonyHSD]

Perhaps the ulez website data is mixed bag as I have witnessed a Mercedes e class from 1999 with petrol engine is exempt typing number plate into the tfl website. I don’t think this particular  is euro 4, perhaps euro 3 or earlier. As long as tfl says exempt there is no need to worry. We have the other way around situations where a Prius car gen1 registered before September 2001 is not exempt and the same car registered after this date is exempt. The owner has dealt with that matter and for a good reason. After adjustment were made on his car registration there is no need to pay ulez fee and the car is now exempt. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Euro 4 didn't come into force until January 2005 for cars with new Type Approvals, and January 2006 for all new cars, so it is quite feasible that some cars built pre-2005 would already meet Euro 4 standards.

[Cyker]

The magic number seems to be 0.08g/km of NOx, which is why we have bizarre cases like my old 60+mpg diesel Yaris not being compliant, but someone else's 10mpg 3L v6 petrol SUV is.

We've discovered there are even some pre-Euro6 diesels that don't even use AdBlue which are somehow compliant!

 

[donkeychomp]

My MK1 Yaris is compliant, and amazingly so is my 1967 Triumph Spitfire...that does 24mpg on a good run...go figure.

Alex

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, donkeychomp said:

My MK1 Yaris is compliant, and amazingly so is my 1967 Triumph Spitfire...that does 24mpg on a good run...go figure.

Alex

Could the Spitfire be classed as a historic vehicle? At that age it'll tax and MOT exempt. With the London-Brighton run coming up in a few weeks, I'd expect all them to be exempt.

[TonyHSD]

Any car 1983 and below currently is classed as classic car and exempt from road tax and any emissions regulations.
Recently been seen a lot old cars in London.
Last week was a lovely yellow fiat 600 in immaculate condition parked on the drive of a fancy house with post modern design exterior somewhere in Camden, what a match, honestly a great picture for a car magazine. 👌

A great opportunity investment for those of you with garages and cash, buy a few 1984-1985 cars , polished them and hold on until next year you will be able to sell for 30-50% more. 

[donkeychomp]

It's very much historic. No tax or MOT needed, even though each year I have to 'tax' her for £0. Insurance for a classic is SO cheap. £80 a year fully comp with an agreed value.

Alex

[Knorton]

15 hours ago, donkeychomp said:

It's very much historic. No tax or MOT needed, even though each year I have to 'tax' her for £0. Insurance for a classic is SO cheap. £80 a year fully comp with an agreed value.

Alex

Agree I have 3 bikes youngest 1971 oldest 1959 all 3 With the 1971 on agreed value, fully comp £197

Kev.

[donkeychomp]

Almost the same here. My bike is 1981 and historic. Insurance £105. It's great isn't it?

Alex

[Mooly]

Our 2003 Corolla (1.4L) shows as fully compliant. Not that it will ever be going there.

[Mjolinor]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:08 PM, donkeychomp said:

My MK1 Yaris is compliant, and amazingly so is my 1967 Triumph Spitfire...that does 24mpg on a good run...go figure.

Alex

If your Spitfire only does 24 MPG then it either needs mending or you need smaller boots.

It should do way more than that on a run.

[donkeychomp]

Not really. It's the first of the MK3 models and 23-27mpg is about right. But I do admit to caning the nuts off it, a very revvy little engine and thrives on a heavy foot! The only niggle is I have to use super unleaded and that ain't cheap...

Alex

[donkeychomp]

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, donkeychomp said:

Not really. It's the first of the MK3 models and 23-27mpg is about right. But I do admit to caning the nuts off it, a very revvy little engine and thrives on a heavy foot! The only niggle is I have to use super unleaded and that ain't cheap...

Alex

Come on, super isn’t that dear and everything else is free.  Crikey, I spent my early years as a mechanic working on all manner of Britty Leyly!

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, donkeychomp said:

Not really. It's the first of the MK3 models and 23-27mpg is about right. But I do admit to caning the nuts off it, a very revvy little engine and thrives on a heavy foot! The only niggle is I have to use super unleaded and that ain't cheap...

Alex

Have you had hardened valve seats fitted? I had '67 2-litre Vitesse that was designed to run on 100 octane. When that was made unavailable I had to de-tune it and that took the edge off it.

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, donkeychomp said:

Not really. It's the first of the MK3 models and 23-27mpg is about right. But I do admit to caning the nuts off it, a very revvy little engine and thrives on a heavy foot! The only niggle is I have to use super unleaded and that ain't cheap...

Alex

The one I had was a 1965 on a C reg, would that have been a mk 2 do you think?

To the best of my memory it had a 1147 cc engine,twin carbs.

And you could see if the rear lights were on if the top was down from the drivers seat, due to the flared rear wings with the lights on top, rather than the flat rear end on the later one,a bit like the 2.5 pi, which had a 1500 engine I think.

My early one was quite frugal on fuel iirc at around 35-40 mpg on a run, that may be a very old rose tinted memory though.

Is yours the 1500?

 

[Mjolinor]

My memory of the ones I have owned are probably rose tinted too at between 30 and 40 MPG with the mk4 being most economical.

I think that with extreme care I could get approaching 50 from my mk4. That is better than my BMW R series and my Suzuki T350.

 

 

[donkeychomp]

Yes the original (called the 4 for some bizarre reason) and the MK2 had the little engines. MK3 and 4 shared the same 1300. The last model was the 1500, and the slowest of the lot due to smaller carbs and emission regulations and extra weight. The MK1 and 2 could get around 30mpg but none of the others would. Maybe on a long drive at perhaps 50ish, but where's the fun in that? One good thing about them is the availability of spares. NOS is almost non existent but every part has been reproduced. But the prices are eye watering. A bonnet can be about £1500! Recently some clot drove into my front bumper, all he did was dent it and he decided he'd buy me a new one instead of going through his insurance. Cost him £970. For a bumper!!

Alex

[bathtub tom]

IIRC they've an eminently tunable engine!

[donkeychomp]

Very. In my fantasy world I'd like the stainless steel twin exhaust with manifold and a pair of Dellorto 40s.  

Apologies to whatever this thread was about but we seem to have wandered a bit...

Alex

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, donkeychomp said:

Very. In my fantasy world I'd like the stainless steel twin exhaust with manifold and a pair of Dellorto 40s.  

Apologies to whatever this thread was about but we seem to have wandered a bit...

Alex

No, I mean boring it out, doing the head and changing the cam (before really getting serious).

[donkeychomp]

You can't bore it out that much but a hot cam would be good. A mate has the Dellorto setup on his and now gets 110bhp compared to the stock 75.

Alex

[bathtub tom]

I know someone who bored out the block offset. Such that the bores were parallel, but not in line and into the 'meatier' parts of the block. Gave them some increased bore, but I can't quite work out what problems it may cause.

The Fiat F.I.R.E. engines didn't have the crank directly below the centre line of the bores, which (apparently) increased torque. I don't know if this practice was followed.

[anchorman]

9 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

I know someone who bored out the block offset. Such that the bores were parallel, but not in line and into the 'meatier' parts of the block. Gave them some increased bore, but I can't quite work out what problems it may cause.

The Fiat F.I.R.E. engines didn't have the crank directly below the centre line of the bores, which (apparently) increased torque. I don't know if this practice was followed.

The crank in the Yaris M15 engine is offset by 10mm.