Replacement tyre choice for PHEV

[Bill65]

25K miles on the OEM Yokohamas and the front traction is getting poor. Within legal limits at front, rears are somewhat better but going to change all four before the weather turns. 

What is the consensus for best replacement tyres, is it still the Michelin Cross Climate 2 and how do they hold up during the summer?

[ernieb]

CrossClimate is a good choice based on previous car experience.

[philip42h]

9 hours ago, Bill65 said:

What is the consensus for best replacement tyres, is it still the Michelin Cross Climate 2 and how do they hold up during the summer?

Cross Climates work very well on my Hybrid. To my mind they are pretty much the perfect tyre for the weather we get in the UK ...

I've speculated from time to time that I really want three sets of tyres - summer tyres for the summer, full cold weather tyres for the depths of winter, and all season tyres for spring and autumn. But would be, frankly, a bit daft! 😉

If you are regularly travelling long distance at temperatures above, say, 40 degrees you might want proper summer tyres. And if you need to drive through the winter on snow and ice, proper cold weather tyres would be a good idea. But if you are prepared to make do with a single set of tyres year round you can't do much better than Cross Climates.

Other good quality all season tyres are available and they are all improving year on year. Various reviews will rate one 'better' than another but the real differences aren't that great.

[Mojo1010]

You are located in Scotland, for one set of tyres would go for all season. If possible to have another set of wheels and tyres, then one winter and one summer. 

[Danlo]

I took delivery of my brand new RAV4 PHEV about a month ago and immediately replaced the stock Yokohama tyres with Michelin Cross Climate 2 SUV tyres. So, if you want to stick with the Yokohama tyres, I have 4 of them that are brand new with only 40 miles on them to sell 😁. All joking aside, the CC 2 SUV tyres seem pretty good so far after about 700 miles and I'm hoping they'll be a lot better in winter than the Yokohama tyres would have been.

[Bill65]

We tend not to get a lot of snow in Central Scotland the last big one was five years or so ago, usually wet and slushy at worst. The stock Yokohamas were poor in those conditions and will be worse with less tread depth this time.  Summertime, well two weeks in June, were touching 30 degrees so would like one set to handle all year round. Lease is up in 21 months so hopefully the next tyre set will see me through to handback.

[Stopeter44]

12 hours ago, Bill65 said:

What is the consensus for best replacement tyres, is it still the Michelin Cross Climate 2 and how do they hold up during the summer?

Cross Climate were developed, IIRC, for those driving from warm, or even hot, conditions to cold and back again. Places like Côte d'Azur or the Italian Riviera, where people live at sea level, then go skiing at 1800 metres altitude, etc.

I went Goodyear Vector 3, which is more of a winter tyre that will work in the summer, rather than a summer tyre (Michelin Cross Climate) that works in the winter. I was worried about how the Goodyear would hold up under summer conditions around my way (35°+ air temperatures, road surface well over 50°C), and after nearly two years and 26k km they still look good.

At the end of the day, it'll come down to personal preference and probably what's on special offer when you want to buy.

[Flatcoat]

I have Continental All Season cross contact tyres on mine. Much better price than Michelin and not that much behind on overall performance. Seem to be a winter biased design getting slightly squirmy in hot weather but very good overall. I have Goodyear Vector 4 on my other car which at the time were a phenomenally good price. As said above they also feel more winter biased but still pretty good in hot weather. 
 

Given how the competition has improved in the past 3-4 years I wouldn’t get hung up on the Michelins’. There are other brands and products which perform well but can be better value. 

[ernieb]

I still have the Yokohama Avid tyres that came with my MAY ‘21 PHEV. I decided to get some miles out of them before changing them come the autumn/winter (I factored this into my budget) we had some very poor rainy weather and some cold days and I was surprised with how well the tyres performed, so I’ve left them on. I still have cash to swap them when I decide to make the change.

I wanted to originally change them immediately based on my really bad experience when I had a Subaru Forrester (x2) it was like driving on ice whenever it rained. These Avid tyres worked well one winter in very snowy Derbyshire on the back lanes. Would I preferred the CC, yes, but so far I’ve felt comfortable driving with the Yokohama’s. 

[Bill65]

Will shop around and look for deals. Will there be much of a difference with the EV range when on all season tyres?

[Flatcoat]

32 minutes ago, Bill65 said:

Will shop around and look for deals. Will there be much of a difference with the EV range when on all season tyres?

Who knows? And to be honest having an economical tyre is of little use if it comes unstuck from the road and puts you in a ditch! 

55 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I still have the Yokohama Avid tyres that came with my MAY ‘21 PHEV. I decided to get some miles out of them before changing them come the autumn/winter (I factored this into my budget) we had some very poor rainy weather and some cold days and I was surprised with how well the tyres performed, so I’ve left them on. I still have cash to swap them when I decide to make the change.

I wanted to originally change them immediately based on my really bad experience when I had a Subaru Forrester (x2) it was like driving on ice whenever it rained. These Avid tyres worked well one winter in very snowy Derbyshire on the back lanes. Would I preferred the CC, yes, but so far I’ve felt comfortable driving with the Yokohama’s. 

the problem for me with the Yokohama’s is they are not officially all-season winter rated. We need that for when we drive abroad in winter. 

[NASY]

Having recently put Cross Climates on all fours I am happy, didn't think they were particularly expensive either. The fact that Michelin gives them a particular talent to remain grippy even once worn down to the limit is a big plus also life expectancy is really high. So I would reckon that as with most things (fewer things than at one time) you get what you pay for and confidence in a tyre is really not something to take lightly as we all know it is the only thing between us and the earth we travel.

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, NASY said:

Having recently put Cross Climates on all fours I am happy, didn't think they were particularly expensive either. The fact that Michelin gives them a particular talent to remain grippy even once worn down to the limit is a big plus also life expectancy is really high. So I would reckon that as with most things (fewer things than at one time) you get what you pay for and confidence in a tyre is really not something to take lightly as we all know it is the only thing between us and the earth we travel.

If you are defining "the limit" as the legal minimum of 1.6mm then I would argue, strongly, that any claim of their "grippiness" at that level of wear should be taken with a 56lb bag of salt, if not dismissed out of hand.

There is no getting away from the fact that once tyres get below about 3mm their ability to disperse standing water is seriously compromised. While their life expectancy and wear rate from new to ~3mm might well be believably good it would take a brave owner, IMO, to "get those last miles" out of the tyres on busy UK roads in a typically wet UK winter.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The primary feature that I look for in a tyre is wet performance, particularly stopping distance. Outright grip for cornering etc is something that is mostly under my own control by how fast I choose to enter any given corner. Someone or something causing me to stop in an emergency, OTOH, is almost entirely in the hands of Mr. Tyre designer and Mr. Newton. As such I want the best chance of stopping in time.

[nlee]

2 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

the problem for me with the Yokohama’s is they are not officially all-season winter rated. We need that for when we drive abroad in winter. 

I suppose that differs depending on where you are driving. Until 2024, in France the tyre must have the M+S marking, or M+S marking plus the 3 peaks symbol. After Nov 2024, you will need both the M+S and 3 peaks symbol. 

[NASY]

Just check out the way the CC tread peels off at the edges and it's easy to assess the grip will last way beyond the conventional patterns. Agreed cornering forces are usually at the drivers behest whereas pulling to a halt may well be down to others. Notwithstanding any of that, forgive me but where I live in the winter unless you have traction in snow and ice then cornering force or stopping distances are just whimsical fantasies because you're not going to get out on the roads where others venture in the first place.

[Strangely Brown]

34 minutes ago, NASY said:

Just check out the way the CC tread peels off at the edges and it's easy to assess the grip will last way beyond the conventional patterns. Agreed cornering forces are usually at the drivers behest whereas pulling to a halt may well be down to others. Notwithstanding any of that, forgive me but where I live in the winter unless you have traction in snow and ice then cornering force or stopping distances are just whimsical fantasies because you're not going to get out on the roads where others venture in the first place.

My comment was about the claim that they have a "particular talent to remain grippy even once worn down to the limit", which is patently crap in anything other than dry conditions. For standing water their ability to disperse it will be severely compromised exactly the same as any other tyre. If the channels are not as deep then it doesn't matter about "the way the CC tread peels off at the edges" because they simply cannot move as much water. This means that the aquaplane speed will be a LOT lower.

I'll grant that in snow, even worn, they may still be better than a summer tyre due to the compound and the remainder of the tread pattern but in wet weather... well... your car, your choice.

ETA: Note that I am criticising only the claim of the tyre maintaining its performance down to the limit. See Mr. Spock above.

[Stopeter44]

21 hours ago, Bill65 said:

Will there be much of a difference with the EV range when on all season tyres?

The biggest impact on EV range is having the tyres inflated to the right pressure for the conditions and load. What I did find is, on my Yaris, that roadhouse was reduced with the Goodyear Vectors compares with the stock tyres (Continentals).

[TonyHSD]

All season tyres does reduce a range in hybrids and electric vehicles but not that much, however these v shaped pattern tyres are way quieter than traditional straight line tread pattern summer or all season. The likes cc and v4seasanos has ability to cancel road noise , Goodyear especially are the quietest of the bunch. Both Michelin and Goodyear together with most other all season all weather tires has stronger carcass construction and although able to quietened the road noise they aren’t able to dampen sharp shocks and can transmit those into the cabin., road cracks, bumps and potholes. 
For those of you up north all seasons are must have imo, but down south and around London a typical summer tyre like efficient grip performance suv will be the better choice. Goodyear, Michelin, Continental, Vredestein , Hankook , Yokohama, toyo all good brands. Mid range Nexen are big player with high quality rubber. Avoid Falkens, these are known not to be the very best and sadly comes as oem equipment on many new Toyota cars. 

[Flatcoat]

All season tyres are not just about snow. Their benefit is also about temperature. Generally winter tyres cope better below 7C. If it is a choice between using winter tyres in summer, or summer tyres in winter I would go for the former. 

[ernieb]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

All season tyres are not just about snow. Their benefit is also about temperature. Generally winter tyres cope better below 7C. If it is a choice between using winter tyres in summer, or summer tyres in winter I would go for the former. 

Agreed, first time I changed to CC I noticed a massive difference in the ride quality. It was during a very cold snap and with the original tyres you felt every bump and minor pothole and all the road gratings.  The CC was totally different, a much more refined drive which I put down to the CC's retaining greater tyre wall flexibility.

[NASY]

18 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

My comment was about the claim that they have a "particular talent to remain grippy even once worn down to the limit", which is patently crap in anything other than dry conditions. For standing water their ability to disperse it will be severely compromised exactly the same as any other tyre. If the channels are not as deep then it doesn't matter about "the way the CC tread peels off at the edges" because they simply cannot move as much water. This means that the aquaplane speed will be a LOT lower.

I'll grant that in snow, even worn, they may still be better than a summer tyre due to the compound and the remainder of the tread pattern but in wet weather... well... your car, your choice.

ETA: Note that I am criticising only the claim of the tyre maintaining its performance down to the limit. See Mr. Spock above.

Limit? Something around 3mm sounds about it for me. Legal limit is surely just a really desperate backstop.

[Strangely Brown]

3 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

The biggest impact on EV range is having the tyres inflated to the right pressure for the conditions and load. What I did find is, on my Yaris, that roadhouse was reduced with the Goodyear Vectors compares with the stock tyres (Continentals).

EVs and Citycars like the Aygo X are typically fitted with eco tyres. These will normally have a lower rolling resistance (translation: less grip) in order to reduce emissions. They very often come with less tread from new too. e.g: some are 6mm instead of 7mm.

[Strangely Brown]

12 minutes ago, NASY said:

Limit? Something around 3mm sounds about it for me. Legal limit is surely just a really desperate backstop.

Good. That is what I would hope that any sane person would think. Unfortunately there are many - far too many - that will want to use that 1.4mm of tread because tyres are expensive, innit.

[Flatcoat]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Agreed, first time I changed to CC I noticed a massive difference in the ride quality. It was during a very cold snap and with the original tyres you felt every bump and minor pothole and all the road gratings.  The CC was totally different, a much more refined drive which I put down to the CC's retaining greater tyre wall flexibility.

That is not quite what I mean. Side wall stiffness is unlikely to vary much with temperature and is largely down to the tyre construction. You could have a summer tyre from two different brands with much different sidewall flex. I am referring to grip in cold weather which relates to tyre compound and read pattern. 

[TonyHSD]

3 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

That is not quite what I mean. Side wall stiffness is unlikely to vary much with temperature and is largely down to the tyre construction. You could have a summer tyre from two different brands with much different sidewall flex. I am referring to grip in cold weather which relates to tyre compound and read pattern. 

That’s right . This is what I meant in my previous post. All seasons are actually harder on the side walls to accommodate summer use and softer rubber compound used in the construction. I didn’t liked my Goodyear vectors at all. Only drove on them for less than 2000 miles and changed back to summers. In cold they were very bumpy and my old Auris has a bit harsher suspension and felt horrible in comparison to summer Goodyear’s.