Is the value of loyalty dead?

[Haliotis]

In May of this year I reported to Virgin Media that my TiVo box was giving trouble.  On May 25th I gat an email to say a new box was on its way - it didn’t arrive.   Over time, the fault got worse, and I complained again.  The V/M agent told me that I could have an upgrade (increased monthly cost) or could pay for a new box.  I pointed out that I had been a customer for 15 years - new customers get the latest box as part of the deal.

Getting nowhere, I told V/M I did not need their TV service anymore - I had a satellite dish installed, and already have a box from our caravanning days.  But V/M had other ideas - because I was in contract, there would be a cancellation fee, although no fee applied if I upgraded (still an increase in monthly charge).

My continued argument got the charge down from £54/month to £35 (the TV service would remain even though not used) for the next 18 months.  It would then rise to £69/month on month 19.  But I will be out of contract at the end of month 18, and I already have details of a full fibre supplier for Broadband and landline only that will be much cheaper. Needless to say, at the end of month 18 (April 2025) my association with V/M will end.

[Bper]

Hi Albert,

In my opinion loyalty died a long time ago. I gave up sky years ago due to the increase in costs every year. Despite being a loyal customer the only deals involved higher costs.

The same with my mobile phone contract gave it up and use a pay as you go and my wife's mobile phone as part of our broadband and BT mobile deal that has unlimited minutes and a data allowance that we have for an additional £7 a month for the phone.

Got rid of our TV licence, change car insurance and home insurance every year as no loyalty only higher costs. 

A long time ago loyalty was recognised by companies but sadly it's only about the bottom line and dividends for the shareholders at the expense of the customers.😡

 

 

 

[flash22]

Customer loyalty is dead, circa 1998 you get nothing from these massive companies you're just an account on a screen

[dannyboy413]

Very few companies recognise customer loyalty these days. I gave up Sky about six years ago and now use 'Freesat' because it is ... err ... free. I use the old Sky dish to get the signal. The car and home insurances are changed if and when the current companies do not offer a better deal, or at least, virtually match, quotes I have got at renewal time. The only company I am loyal to is Tesco Mobile. The price has been the same since I took it out 4 or 5 years ago and I get almost unlimited calls/texts and data in Ireland and - more importantly - 300 free minutes for UK calls, so I can ring my sister and brother for nowt. Also, by using the Tesco 'Boost' thingy, most of the time I do not have to pay a monthly bill!  I do not have a landline, partly because they kept putting the price up, but mainly because of the rubbish line I had. And I don't have a TV licence as I am 'of a certain age'. 😄. As Bob @Bper said, "it's only about the bottom line and dividends for the shareholders at the expense of the customers".

[APS]

Don't you just love that warm, fuzzy feeling you get when your insurance company tells you that you have now been with them a whole year and that someone else, who is not them, might be able to give you a much better deal, because you are just single line in their database representing a stale customer, which they really would like to remove. They wouldn't mind to add you back in in a year or so when they can rob you back as a net new customer from a competitor.  Welcome, blob of data 🙏 

[Eddie G]

Loyalty is long gone, years ago you could keep your car insurance for at least 3 years but over the last 10 or so have changed every year saving between £30-£50 each time and the likes of EE broadband  used to say with being a long term customer we will give you a better deal but never heard that for years from any of the phone/broadband companies i've stuck with.

[Rhymes with Paris]

If any deal has the words " contract" or " direct debit" in them , then I avoid like the plague.

The reasons are that"contract," in this context usually means a one sided deemed type of sign up designed to legally defraud customers,a proper contract is a completely different thing.

And "direct debit" means that you pay in advance for a service that you may or may not get at some point in the future,or may be altered to suit the provider.

As an example, I PAYG on my phone,ok in advance for 30 days, but if the service stops for any reason, my losses are limited to £10.

And as regards contracts, then I would need to know all terms, conditions, and clauses, which of course are usually carefully hidden pior to snaring a customer.

Yes there are honest businesses out there with complete transparency, but look in the same place that you might find unicorn horn to stand any chance of finding them.

My opinion of course, others may have hopefully found very different experiences.

 

[Haliotis]

One most infuriating thing was that the call centre agent could not get his head around the fact that I have my own independent satellite box.  He kept advising me that I could have a new V/M box by either upgrading or paying for the box.  

His rapid-speak with a strong Asian accent was really difficult to follow over a phone line, and I have never been more thankful to end a conversation.

On a separate subject, just over 5 years ago I had my driveway relaid at a cost of over £9,000 and, more recently, two new composite doors fitted at a cost of over £4,000.  And yet, on a regular basis, we get flyers through the door advertising new paving and entrance doors.  Are these “flyer postmen” blind? - surely they can see when a drive or front door are fairly new?

[davidif]

10 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

One most infuriating thing was that the call centre agent could not get his head around the fact that I have my own independent satellite box.  He kept advising me that I could have a new V/M box by either upgrading or paying for the box.  

His rapid-speak with a strong Asian accent was really difficult to follow over a phone line, and I have never been more thankful to end a conversation.

On a separate subject, just over 5 years ago I had my driveway relaid at a cost of over £9,000 and, more recently, two new composite doors fitted at a cost of over £4,000.  And yet, on a regular basis, we get flyers through the door advertising new paving and entrance doors.  Are these “flyer postmen” blind? - surely they can see when a drive or front door are fairly new?

On the latter point I think that the leaflet droppers are simply paid to deliver a certain number of leaflets in a given area and have no interest in whether the content is being accurately 'targeted'

 

[Parts-King]

15 hours ago, Haliotis said:

In May of this year I reported to Virgin Media that my TiVo box was giving trouble.  On May 25th I gat an email to say a new box was on its way - it didn’t arrive.   Over time, the fault got worse, and I complained again.  The V/M agent told me that I could have an upgrade (increased monthly cost) or could pay for a new box.  I pointed out that I had been a customer for 15 years - new customers get the latest box as part of the deal.

Getting nowhere, I told V/M I did not need their TV service anymore - I had a satellite dish installed, and already have a box from our caravanning days.  But V/M had other ideas - because I was in contract, there would be a cancellation fee, although no fee applied if I upgraded (still an increase in monthly charge).

My continued argument got the charge down from £54/month to £35 (the TV service would remain even though not used) for the next 18 months.  It would then rise to £69/month on month 19.  But I will be out of contract at the end of month 18, and I already have details of a full fibre supplier for Broadband and landline only that will be much cheaper. Needless to say, at the end of month 18 (April 2025) my association with V/M will end.

I had VM and was on an 18 month contract, fair enough. About a year in, my circumstances changed and I needed to move house. I moved to an area not covered by VM fibre, called them up, they checked and indeed no VM fibre, nothing they could do. So thanked them and cancelled the contract. It took an age on the phone to do that and all the time they kept mentioning me breaking my contract etc. Anyhoo, ended up stiffing me for a few hundred quid. So now if I ever see VM on social media I tell everyone how sh1te they are............you're welcome VM, if I can help anyone avoid VM then ,my work is done 👍

[Bper]

2 hours ago, Haliotis said:

One most infuriating thing was that the call centre agent could not get his head around the fact that I have my own independent satellite box.  He kept advising me that I could have a new V/M box by either upgrading or paying for the box.  

His rapid-speak with a strong Asian accent was really difficult to follow over a phone line, and I have never been more thankful to end a conversation.

On a separate subject, just over 5 years ago I had my driveway relaid at a cost of over £9,000 and, more recently, two new composite doors fitted at a cost of over £4,000.  And yet, on a regular basis, we get flyers through the door advertising new paving and entrance doors.  Are these “flyer postmen” blind? - surely they can see when a drive or front door are fairly new?

I know Composite doors have always been expensive as we have them ourselves, but £9000 5 years ago to re-lay a drive, what material did they use resin,tarmac,block paving, shingle, gold, silver. 😂You must have a big drive Albert.😂

 

[Haliotis]

It is a wide double drive, and the previous owner had laid concrete over a foot thick.  The blocks themselves are rumbled to give an antiquated effect, and are porous, which we find do not hold an icy surface in winter.  

[Bper]

19 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

It is a wide double drive, and the previous owner had laid concrete over a foot thick.  The blocks themselves are rumbled to give an antiquated effect, and are porous, which we find do not hold an icy surface in winter.  

Very nice 👍

[Puglet]

Agree, I had similar few years ago with AA breakdown cover, I was with them for over 20 years and when I renewed every year always got a discount on their renewal price, then suddenly they would only offer same price as a new customer. So I left, but few years ago I joined again and had discounts every year, so hopefully AA management lost so many customers that they changed tack. 

Then again AA has form as for years their car insurance quotes were so high for our cars I gave up ringing for a quote, but about 5 years ago they suddenly were very competative, but I always check as mentioned you can quickly become an unwelcome customer.

[Haliotis]

Here is a photo of what [part of] the drive looked like when the old concrete was broken up.  It filled an 8-wheeler high-sided wagon, and the excavation had to be back-filled and then a vibrating, ride-on roller to avoid later subsidence of the drive.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Blimey,as Tommy Lee Jones said in that film ,no country for old men.

" If that ain't a mess, it'll do till the mess gets here"

I understand though,if that foot thick concrete was at a level that did not allow a new surface or paving on top of it, then of course it has to go, you can't remove it partially.

Concrete that thick though on a private drive is a typical DIY job by a home owner, they think it must be strong enough to bear several 40 tonne wagons.

Same as when amateurs try and re point brick work, they mix it so strong it ruins the brickwork, aswell as getting it everywhere except the mortar joints.

The costs of breaking that amount of concrete, and then loading and disposing of it, I'm guessing must have been the bulk of the cost/price.

Good that you have a drive that you like and is usable now.

[Bper]

20 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Blimey,as Tommy Lee Jones said in that film ,no country for old men.

" If that ain't a mess, it'll do till the mess gets here"

I understand though,if that foot thick concrete was at a level that did not allow a new surface or paving on top of it, then of course it has to go, you can't remove it partially.

Concrete that thick though on a private drive is a typical DIY job by a home owner, they think it must be strong enough to bear several 40 tonne wagons.

Same as when amateurs try and re point brick work, they mix it so strong it ruins the brickwork, aswell as getting it everywhere except the mortar joints.

The costs of breaking that amount of concrete, and then loading and disposing of it, I'm guessing must have been the bulk of the cost/price.

Good that you have a drive that you like and is usable now.

Going off subject regarding pointing brickwork, any tips on matching existing mortar colour. I know you can dye the mortar but getting the right mix so it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb isn't easy. Also property is 30 years old.😆

[Haliotis]

The driveway was just one of many things I had to rectify.  Unfortunately for us, at the last minute the sellers of the house we were really meant to buy decided to stay.  We had sold and were then desperate to find a suitable alternative, so everything was done in a rush.

The previous owner of our house was a shop fitter, and everything was “front”.  It is lucky that, in my younger days, I was good at DIY, otherwise putting things right would have cost me a fortune.  When I ripped out the old C.H., the ground floor pipe work was suspended from the joints with fishing twine. And a bib-tap had been used to join two lengths of pipe that were well out of line.  I could write a thick book of all that he’d done wrong - of the original house, only the roof, Shell and a few of the floors remain.  My only salvation was that the family were desperate to move, and I screwed him down on price.  But it did leave me with years of work.

[Rhymes with Paris]

14 hours ago, Bper said:

Going off subject regarding pointing brickwork, any tips on matching existing mortar colour. I know you can dye the mortar but getting the right mix so it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb isn't easy. Also property is 30 years old.😆

Hello Bob.

There is an almost infinite variety of shades in mortars used in brickwork, and of course even more so spread over the years.

I would suspect on a house 30 years old that ready mix mortar was used, especially if on a site where one builder built all the houses, usually more towards a yellowish depending on the type of bricks used.

I would start with a small bag of pre mix dry mortar from Wickes or somewhere like that, then mix a very small amount and let it cure outside.

Then compare it with your existing colour.

As you say colour can be adjusted with cement dyes , black for darker, white for lighter etc,or adding lime for older stuff.

 

 

[Bper]

30 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Hello Bob.

There is an almost infinite variety of shades in mortars used in brickwork, and of course even more so spread over the years.

I would suspect on a house 30 years old that ready mix mortar was used, especially if on a site where one builder built all the houses, usually more towards a yellowish depending on the type of bricks used.

I would start with a small bag of pre mix dry mortar from Wickes or somewhere like that, then mix a very small amount and let it cure outside.

Then compare it with your existing colour.

As you say colour can be adjusted with cement dyes , black for darker, white for lighter etc,or adding lime for older stuff.

 

 

Hi Paul, thanks for that, as you say it was one main builder and they did have a silo of mortar on site this was confirmed by local neighbours.

I don't have any real pointing issues other then some holes that the previous owner had decided to drill into the mortar and I thought it would be an idea to point them in. Asking a few people who I assumed would have come across this problem before the answer I got was  "Phew that's going to be difficult" but no idea how to go about matching the colour. It is a slight yellowish colour and I didn't want to use anything that would make it stand out like a sore thumb.

I will give it a try next summer to see if I can match the colour with the method you have said.👍

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

Ah Bob,if it's just drill holes, then you could save a whole lot of work and time by getting a tube of mortar repair from Screwfix or Toolstation,I think they both do one in a beige or tan shade that may be a good match,or close to it.

With it being small holes rather than an area of re pointing the brickwork joints,an exact match is not quite so important.

Around a fiver or less.

*Edit , just had a Google and Screwfix does one in "buff"colour, I would try that first.

[Haliotis]

Here’s what the drive looks like now - with my ex-VW Caravelle standing on it.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Very nice Albert,looks like tegular paving to me.

A lot more attractive to look at than block paving IMO.