That was Taxing!

[Bper]

Scrolling through the forum earlier this afternoon, I saw someone mention car tax in a post. I had recently had a service and MOT a week before the tax ran out and decided to renew when it expired on the 2nd November.

The post reminded me that the car had originally failed the MOT but I couldn't remember what part it failed on. So to save digging the file out I thought I would log on to the gov.uk/check-mot-history site but by mistake I logged on to the “DVLA get information on vehicle” site.The first thing I saw in big red letters was  “X untaxed.”

I couldn't believe I had actually forgotten to pay £20 to tax the car. I have been driving around for 12 days untaxed. It made me think what would have happened if by chance I got pulled over by police. Would they have accepted this as an honest mistake or even worse, what if I had been involved in an accident. 

While your car insurance may be valid even if your car tax expires, driving on public roads without tax is likely to affect your policy. Most car insurance policies have a clause that says the vehicle needs to be taxed.

Not sure if anyone else has done this by accident but I wouldn't have realised had I not seen the forum post. And as no physical tax disc is applicable, I wouldn't have known it had expired.

 

I hope it's not old age creeping up.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I suppose it is even easier to forget to 'tax' those cars which have zero tax - eg. versions of the Aygo - where despite having to pay no tax, one still has to remember to tax them.

[Haliotis]

Even if a car has zero tax, does not the owners still get a reminder from the DVLA?   If the car is still properly insured, surely a lapse in taxing it should not affect the insurance - sounds like yet one more “get-out” clause for insurance companies.   Regarding being stopped by the police, any compassion is most unlikely - a driver would be very lucky to meet a police officer sympathetic enough to waive giving a ticket.

[Cyker]

They should do but Royal Mail has been having real issues lately so I wouldn't be surprised if the reminder got lost in the post - We had a load of threatening letters from the local council coming after us for non-payment of council tax, because we never received the bill in the post!

You can subscribe for a text reminder if you don't mind giving the DVLA your mobile. I'm a bit old-fashioned and like to mark things like that on a paper calendar! I much prefer visual reminders...

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

I'm that tight, I wait for the local post office !Removed! stationery shop to put out the diaries and calendars in June free of charge.

But yes, usually reminders are sent out even for "free" VED , such as historical, disabled, and zero or low emission vehicles.

Not to be relied upon though,as the reminder makes clear, the onus is upon the keeper.

My OCD pal has an app of some sort that correlates the VED , insurance, and MOT dates, and pings reminders.

Not for me though,as I really dislike being nagged or even mithered for anything.

I am still being texted for MOTs and service on my old honda crv that I said bye bye to in early 2020, but that's just grasping dealers, not honda btw.

[TonyHSD]

I am the same , every year I forget to tax the car and it’s £0 but I am always  late like up to a month. Tax discs were great reminders. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

2 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I am the same , every year I forget to tax the car and it’s £0 but I am always  late like up to a month. Tax discs were great reminders. 

Yes Tony, I agree.

And Guinness bottle labels were a good substitute for September 1986 discs.

It got a bit tricky for the other months though.

[Roy124]

Remember the optimistic sticker in the windscreen, Tax Applied For?

[Rhymes with Paris]

26 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Remember the optimistic sticker in the windscreen, Tax Applied For?

Yes, and the"in the post" ones.

I like the old one about the copper who stopped a Ford Zephyr for a nearside headlight out, the driver got out and slapped the front wing,lo and behold the headlight came on.

The wise old copper said "well I would try slapping the windscreen, and see if the tax disc comes up".

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

I am the same , every year I forget to tax the car and it’s £0 but I am always  late like up to a month. Tax discs were great reminders. 

Don't worry, I knew a guy who kept forgetting after they made it electronic only - He'd not paid tax for something like 6 years in a row until I mentioned it to him   Funny thing is he never got any letters or any consequences so no wonder it's rife in places.

It makes me laugh that the greedy sods made it electronic to try and keep more of the money, but instead they've lost more money than they saved because it's so easy to evade!  

 

[Haliotis]

Afraid I’m one of the old school.  Recurring bills set up with Direct Debits and, being aware of when my car tax. Insurance and MoT are due, I always clear the renewals ahead of their expiry dates.  Peace of mind is better than walking tightropes.

[Bper]

I suppose if it was a few hundred pounds that was due then I would have probably remembered but £20 and knowing the tax is that low it just didn't register. It's a good job that after reading a post on here it jogged my memory or I would still be driving around with no tax and none the wiser. Still will create a phone reminded for next year.

[Roy124]

Actually,  on reflection,  you don't need a reminder at all.  Simply set up a direct debit.  They will notify you in advance of the due amount and date. 

[Barkley]

I got my first electric car in 2008 (Renault Twizy) and it needed a £0 tax disc. I always got a reminder, and since by the DVLA’s own figures suggest, many simply forget - but they don’t have to be ‘caught’ - even if you assert non-Road use, they get you on not declaring SORN as the alternative.

i’ve just returned from one of Scotland’s smaller islands, connected by ferry to Oban, only has 2 roads of 15m in length, so paying RT isn’t a priority there.  When any suspicious strangers arrive by ferry, the bush telegraph ensured the roads are empty!

[Bper]

36 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Actually,  on reflection,  you don't need a reminder at all.  Simply set up a direct debit.  They will notify you in advance of the due amount and date. 

True but I might change the car.

[Cyker]

I have an aversion to direct debit ever since I discovered it means they can take out as much money as they want at any time without telling you!  

I much prefer to actually get sent a bill that I manually pay, so I can see what they're taking and can be the gate-keeper of my finances, instead of randomly finding out I'm mysteriously overdrawn!

[Rhymes with Paris]

4 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I have an aversion to direct debit ever since I discovered it means they can take out as much money as they want at any time without telling you!  

I much prefer to actually get sent a bill that I manually pay, so I can see what they're taking and can be the gate-keeper of my finances, instead of randomly finding out I'm mysteriously overdrawn!

That's my way of thinking too.

When I'm asked why my refusal of direct debits,by friends or relatives of course, not chuggers or floggers of services that don't exist, they don't even get an answer, not got the breath to waste on such.

I explain it in similar way, you are giving control of your bank account to some random incompetent,if not dishonest, keyboard jockey.

A lot like giving your pin to someone and your debit card, and trusting them.

No,no, and no ,a frosty morning in hell before that happens.

[Cyker]

Yeah, I was very annoyed when I found out - I thought it was like a Standing Order, but with more guarantees and protections etc., but it's actually more to benefit the companies than us, as they don't need to do as much admin, and unlike a Standing Order, they can unilaterally change the amount they take out and when they take it out *at will* - They don't need to solicit an agreement from you or the bank like they would if they wanted to change a standing order, they can just do it!

I remember complaining to my bank about the clause where they're supposed to notify you about changes, and apparently the bank have nothing to do with this and it's up to the organization to notify you - There's no oversight and no checking whether they do or not, or how they do - Apparently it's okay for it to be buried in fine print along with promotional material (i.e. junk advert mail) as long as they send you something; You don't even have to have received it - As long as they can prove they sent it that's their obligation taken care of.

And, at least at the beginning, they'd pass on the saving in admin costs to you, but nowadays most companies don't as far as I can tell, so there's even less incentive for me to use it...

 

[Haliotis]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I have an aversion to direct debit ever since I discovered it means they can take out as much money as they want at any time without telling you!  

I much prefer to actually get sent a bill that I manually pay, so I can see what they're taking and can be the gate-keeper of my finances, instead of randomly finding out I'm mysteriously overdrawn!

I have used direct debits for years and never had a problem. Regarding the taking of money beyond what should be paid, you are protected by the Direct Debit Guarantee, which all banks are subject to.

[Barkley]

4 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Direct Debit Guarantee, which all banks are subject to.

Sorry - this ‘guarantee’ always makes me laugh! Your bank isn’t protecting you - YOU are!  

If you don’t notice that the wrong amount has been taken, or on the wrong date or even dead…  the money leaves your account regardless.  Then there’s the issues of the subtle change from stated amounts and timeframes to ‘unspecified amounts on unspecified dates’, so bang goes your expected schedule annual/quarterly/monthly that you could get them for breaking, so a debit that is expected quarterly but is taken monthly needs you to spot and complain.

I have a fairy busy life (even in retirement) but standing over my bank statements to check is a great imposition due to the accepted policy if I don’t spot it in good time it is decreed I must have been OK with it!  (And accept the compromise offered as legally I still have a responsibility - some ‘guarantee’!

Lastly, look at the consumer forums where folk have been paying monthly for mobile phone insurance when they sold the phone several years earlier. Happens too often. Nope, If it is financially beneficial to me, I’ll consider it but life’s too short - and it’s my money after all 🤠

[Haliotis]

I did have one problem with a D/D, but it wasn’t the bank’s fault.  We were members of the Caravan Club until recently, and I had both my monthly caravan insurance and annual club fee on D/D via the Caravan Club.  On one occasion I did notice a deduction on my bank statement for the annual fee being taken twice, about two months apart.  The D/D reference number as our club membership number, and one was not mine.  Checking back, I found this had been happening for six years.

I contacted the Club and informed them, saying that they would know the “other person” by the membership number. The club official I was speaking to said she would “see if it was possible to reimburse me”.  I said, “It WILL be possible AND done, otherwise your membership dept will wonder what has hit them!”.  Money was refunded - in SIX separate  items on my bank statement.

[Cyker]

Good job you spotted it and got them to sort it out!!  

This is the sort of thing I mean tho' - The onus is still on you to check it, but because it's all automated and happens behind your back it's harder to keep an eye on it and, as you found out, they can take any money out they want, regardless of what the original agreement was for.

With a standing order, that couldn't happen as the bank transfers the funds as instructed, but with DD the company requests the money and all the bank does is check you have a valid DD agreement with them, and if you do just says "Sure! Take whatever you like!"

A lot of companies only take DD now, as it saves them a lot of administrative cost, so sometimes you don't have a choice, but given one I'd shy away from it for these reasons.

One of the things that's supposed to be reassuring is you can terminate a DD at any time by informing your bank, but in practise you should never do this, as the company will come after you for lack of payment and they can get quite nasty about, as companies do when they think you owe them money, so you're not really protected in any meaningful way...

[Haliotis]

When it comes to payments, T&C, cancelling contracts, etc., business and commerce always have the upper hand. So, as previously advised, it is up to the customer to keep an eye on events.  However, when making a complaint, I used a bit of psychology of my own.  I never get heated with the agent at the other end, and frequently say that I appreciate they are only following instructions and carrying the can for the bigwigs who relax in plush offices on large pay packets - or words in that vein.  It’s surprising how much help you can get when the agent feels you and he/she are on the same side. On several occasions I have ended up in a better position than I had hoped for.     Remember to be canny, and calm and polite at all times!!!

[Cyker]

That is a very good tip! You do have to feel out the person on the other side tho'; With some, the gently gently approach just doesn't work and just screaming blue murder at them produces better results, but it's usually best to not open with that!