condensation inside our toyota..what am i doing wrong

[FROSTYBALLS]

We purposely leave the air con on all the time, and have done for a number of years, regardless of any negligible effect on fuel economy. We've had air conditioned cars since 1998, both manual and auto systems, and the systems have become more efficient over the years, reducing any fuel consumption penalty.

At the end of the day we prefer to be comfortable, and to be able to see out of the car, whether the journey is short or long.

 

[Gerg]

There is this earlier thread to peruse:

Basically, as part of the above thread, I noted that when fitting some sound deadener inside all four doors, that both our 2013 Aurises had leaking door membranes due to sagging sealant at the edges.  Perhaps the supplier of the sealant to Burnaston,  (who is Sika, I believe) also supplies the Yaris factory?  All the doors on both cars had this problem to varying degrees.

I think the easiest way to check for this would be to use some of the blue paper towel that is common in garage workshops and petrol forecourts, and press it into the bottom edge of the plastic door card - where it meets the painted metal work of the door.  If the towel becomes damp/wet then it will immediately turn darker blue!

On the Auris there is a lengthy foam strip that sits just out-of-sight on that door card/metalwork join, so the water can be retained in that foam for a good while after rain, fwiw.

[Moleman]

1 hour ago, Barkley said:

Not the point being made - why run A/c for a short journey, it barely has time to do its stuff before it shuts down. Many have the A/c button pressed without thinking as it’s only another light on the dash.  Naturally, I’ll use it for longer journeys where I can appreciate its effects more, so don’t fret about the seals drying out.  For those who use a/c and have a misty car - all without noticing it’s been switched to recirculate is just a quick fix away.

Each to their own.

[Max_Headroom]

2 hours ago, Barkley said:

Not the point being made - why run A/c for a short journey, it barely has time to do its stuff before it shuts down.

Modern air con doesn't take ages to get going its almost instant and as has been said by many members in the forum it does the job just leave it on or suffer with condensation, as for it causing a 10% drop in MPG sorry i simply do not believe that. (see below)

I think the reason modern cars can suffer from condensation is due to how well sealed they are remember back in the day we didn't have AC and condensation wasn't really a problem.

Quote

How much does AC affect mpg?

How Much Gas Does a Car's Air Conditioner Use? Switching on your car's air conditioning system will use some gas. There are estimates that the air conditioning system will lower mileage by about 3 MPG.

 

[Serban]

4 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I haven't found any noticeable power difference in the Yaris with aircon on or off.

TBH, the disadvantages of switching it off far outweigh any minor mpg gain.  The system is very efficient especially when set to Eco.

Just because you haven't noticed, doesn't mean it's not there. It could be ON, but not actually doing much.

[Trewithy]

Look for the Climate Settings under Vehicle Settings.  The Efficient Ventilation Mode should be ON.  If the Recirc flap happens to be closed when the car is switched off (sometimes recirc is selected automatically) it will open the flap to fresh air 1 minute after switch off.  I have experimented with this by putting the car in recirc and switching off.  If the environment is quite you can hear the flap operating after 1 minute.

[TonyHSD]

There is another  reason/place that needs to be checked for dirt, debris and mould formations and to be cleaned properly, it’s the plastic gutter below Wiper Blades. This is where all rain water goes from roof windscreen through the body and leaves the car underneath. This is also the air intake for hvac on each car. If there are debris and standing water after heavy rain likely to get condensation inside. I always check and clean this area on my cars and I never have any problems with condensation. When raining out and you seat in the car you should be able to hear water fall like noises left corner of dashboard which will mean all gutters are nice and clean and water drains away. 
Here the noise after wipers clean the screen. 
And then the spirit of Toyota t spirit - hahah this is after a 40 min drive with hvac in auto mode with ac on. So max as it helps to clear the windows then it causes even more trouble. 

[anchorman]

6 hours ago, Moleman said:

Okay, what is that? 5 miles per gallon?

So to save 5 mpg, you suffer a wet car, not heated or cooled correctly as the designers of the car intended.

You also risk failure of the A/C as the system needs to be used to lubricate the seals, if they dry out the system will leak.

Is this a saving?

Exactly.  I’m not sitting in a modern vehicle without the aircon on just to save a few bob.  Take the seats and the glass out to save a bit more fuel.  The amount of cars I see on my daily commute with the windows fully steamed up is amazing just for the click of a switch.  Some of that might be ignorance but some will be penny pinching.  By the way, I don’t think the seals are a risk these days and these modern system use very little fuel.  

[Max_Headroom]

20 minutes ago, anchorman said:

By the way, I don’t think the seals are a risk these days and these modern system use very little fuel.  

According to this article from 2023 they are still at risk if you dont use the system regularly - 

Skoda added: “Regularly using the air conditioning system has other benefits, specifically it keeps the system in a good physical condition.

“Air conditioning systems are sealed systems, with air-con compressors and seals lubricated by oil.

“Failing to switch on the air-con means no lubrication, which can cause the compressor to be less efficient and the seals to dry out.”

Fuel economy myths debunked as air con use may help drivers (gbnews.com)

 

[TonyHSD]

37 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

According to this article from 2023 they are still at risk if you dont use the system regularly - 

Skoda added: “Regularly using the air conditioning system has other benefits, specifically it keeps the system in a good physical condition.

“Air conditioning systems are sealed systems, with air-con compressors and seals lubricated by oil.

“Failing to switch on the air-con means no lubrication, which can cause the compressor to be less efficient and the seals to dry out.”

Fuel economy myths debunked as air con use may help drivers (gbnews.com)

 

Honestly no need to worry about seals. Let’s think what happens to cars that sat parked on or in transit for months without any use, no ac use at all. Also fridges in shops that been stocked for a while , do they have seal leaks? No, not at all. All car myths . I had a car not turned on ac for over 4 years and once I pressed the button the ac started immediately and was icy cold plus worked for another 4 years and I sold the car with fully functional air conditioning. 
AC in cars or homes as personal preference. In many cases it’s a at most but in others not really plus not necessary your windows will get steamed up. 
 

[Max_Headroom]

I believe the oil in the refrigerant is there for a reason and one of those is to keep the seals lubricated to stop them drying out cracking and leaking, searching the internet brings up many references to seals drying out due to lack of use compressor pully seals are particularly prone to it.

 

Wear and Tear 

Wear and tear of the rubber parts of your system is the most common cause of leaks. While much of your air conditioning system is made of metal, including the high pressure lines, parts of the system are rubber.  There are rubber seals/O-rings which are put in place to prevent leaks, but over time—and with exposure to heat and moisture—they can degrade, dry out and crack, allowing refrigerant to slowly leak out.

Top 4 Causes of Air Conditioning Leaks (And What to do About Them) – FJC (fjcinc.com)

[Cyker]

It does depend greatly on the car - In my experience I find petrol cars take a significant hit with the AC on in both power and fuel economy, while most diesels take far less of a hit. In my Mk4 I don't really notice any difference unless I'm not moving for significant periods of time, then the AC sucks the power out of the traction Battery so fast the engine is running much more often.

One of the reasons I miss my Mk1 is  the AC button was massive, and I'd gotten into the habit of turning it on when I wanted to slow down without braking - I was essentially getting free AC by using it as a light brake   In the Mk2 the button was the size of a smartie so it was much more dangerous to even try to do that, and the variable compressor seemed to have a far lower slowing action than the fixed compressor in the Mk1.

I agree it should be used regularly tho' - My dad doesn't like using it for similar reasons that others have said, and he has to regas the car every summer, whereas I regassed both my Mk1's once in the whole time I owned them - The difference being I used mine all year round (Not necessarily continuously, but regularly enough!). The Mk2 was a different story... there was just no saving the AC system in that PoS...

[Jules88]

I always have the AC on, but I like to switch to recirculated air after a few minutes of driving or in traffic. As soon as I switch to recirculated air it starts fogging up immediately again.

I'm guessing it's due to the dog towel on the back seats (on top of a seat cover), which can get damp in this weather. And I keep a microfibre cloth in the driver doorsil which I sometimes use to wipe the windows and mirrors when covered in rain. Gonna move this cloth to the boot I think.

Will try the silica gel trick.

[Cyker]

Hmm, if the AC's on it still shouldn't fog up if recirc is on - I found in my previous cars, I could only use recirc in winter IF the AC was on, or the car would fog up immediately, so the AC should still dehumidify the recirc air.

That said, it would be worth taking the towel in and putting it over a radiator rather than leaving it in the car overnight if it is that damp!

 

[bathtub tom]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

One of the reasons I miss my Mk1 is  the AC button was massive, and I'd gotten into the habit of turning it on when I wanted to slow down without braking - I was essentially getting free AC by using it as a light brake

I did that in an old Nissan Micra. Effectively a retarder.

[Stevie J]

The reason I would rather turn the a/c off as soon as possible is that my drive to and from work is only about 3 miles of urban traffic, so mpg is pretty poor even without the a/c on - can be as low as just 30mpg, so any way to try to keep the fuel consumption as low as possible I will try to do it, especially as I use the super unleaded and it aint cheap. The A/c does start working immediately so demists the windscreen within a minute or two, and I just wish I could then turn it off and the windows would stay clear, but using the a/c with the heater set to max output tends to send hot air through a damp a/c coil after it is switched off, thus making the air hot and very humid, and fogging the windows up again.

My mother's car is the same and hers is a 2019 - same issue, fogged up windscreen and back window - they cant all be leaking water in, I think its just residual damp that never really gets the chance to dry out if the car doesnt do long journeys, only short ones.

My pollen filter was changed less than 9000 miles ago and the car has only done 31K miles, so this wont be the issue with it being clogged, as I get good airflow through the vents. It will be due a full service around next spring so I'll get them to replace it then, but I think its overkill to keep replacing the pollen filter when the car only does 3000 miles a year under my ownership.

Regarding the a/c on the mk1, I had it on my T reg CDX 1.0 and it was so power robbing, it made the car bog down terribly. You do need an engine with enough guts to drive an a/c compressor, as they do put quite considerable load on the engine. The 1.33 engine I have now seems better when using the a/c but I can still feel the drag it causes when it cuts in.  

[anchorman]

13 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

I believe the oil in the refrigerant is there for a reason and one of those is to keep the seals lubricated to stop them drying out cracking and leaking, searching the internet brings up many references to seals drying out due to lack of use compressor pully seals are particularly prone to it.

 

Wear and Tear 

Wear and tear of the rubber parts of your system is the most common cause of leaks. While much of your air conditioning system is made of metal, including the high pressure lines, parts of the system are rubber.  There are rubber seals/O-rings which are put in place to prevent leaks, but over time—and with exposure to heat and moisture—they can degrade, dry out and crack, allowing refrigerant to slowly leak out.

Top 4 Causes of Air Conditioning Leaks (And What to do About Them) – FJC (fjcinc.com)

Max, stop quoting the internet, the place where an itchy toe means you’ve definitely got cancer 🤪.  It was a problem with those old systems that virtually brought the car to a stand when it kicked in, had a compressor the size of a wheelie bin and stopped working before they backed it off the transporter (yes, I know Range Rover still has that system).  There’s hundreds of 2008 Yaris’s running about with a million miles on that will freeze your goolies off if you don’t get choked with dust by lack of use.  It isn’t like it used to be 👍

[anchorman]

Crikey, I’m too old and grumpy to be on a forum.  I put it down to sat waiting at junctions for cretins that can’t be assd indicating, I’d still be young if I had that time back.  I tell you what folks, if you can be bothered to justify why you shouldn’t use the aircon on a modern vehicle, you switch it off.  You’ll probably make the wiring in your house last a couple of extra millennia if you switch everything off and tough luck if you think you can reincarnate to come back and use it again because I’m an atheist and can tell you that’s a waste of life too.  

[Stopeter44]

On 11/17/2023 at 11:18 AM, Moleman said:

You also risk failure of the A/C as the system needs to be used to lubricate the seals, if they dry out the system will leak.

That's my experience. I had a 2006 Renault Clio III, I rarely used A/C in the winter, and then only for un-misting the car. I had to re-gas the A/C every year. After that I had a Peugeot 208 I ran A/C all the time, essentially because it was "climate control" and would heat/cool according to requirements. I never had to re-gas that car in the 6 years I owned it.

With my Yaris, I don't run the HVAC in the winter on very short runs, because there's little point to heating the engine for cabin warmth when the cabin won't warm up in the 3-5 minutes I am in the car. In the summer, I leave the HVAC on all the time, I even set it in it's normal, as opposed to "ECO" position, which I find adequate in less than very hot conditions (>30°C).

Edited November 18, 2023 by Stopeter44
automatic spell checker correction

[Gren]

14 hours ago, Jules88 said:

 I keep a microfibre cloth in the driver doorsil which I sometimes use to wipe the windows and mirrors when covered in rain.

I have an old small windscreen wiper (ex-rear-window-size) that I keep on the floor beside the drivers seat.  I use that to clear the side windows etc as it doesn't absorb the water as a cloth would do. 

[Yugguy1970]

Aye, the debate about aircon reminds me of Basil Fawlty arguing with Mrs Richards about her hearing aid.

[Stivino]

20 minutes ago, Gren said:

it doesn't absorb the water as a cloth would do. 

Where does the water go?

[Max_Headroom]

14 hours ago, Jules88 said:

Gonna move this cloth to the boot I think.

Buy a container with an airtight lid  big enough to fit the towel in.

[Gren]

44 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Where does the water go?

I use on the outside of the side windows if it's been raining, as Jules mentioned.  I do occasionally use it inside but catch the drips in a tissue which gets thrown away, so no water left in the car.

[Cyker]

4 hours ago, anchorman said:

Crikey, I’m too old and grumpy to be on a forum.

No! This is the best and only thing I am looking forward to as I metamorphose into a true Old Man!

You get to be as grumpy and cranky as you like and it's completely socially acceptable!  

If I do it now I'm still told I'm too young to be such a cynic and to stop whining - but one day that will change! Then they will rue the day! Bwahahah!!!

 

1 hour ago, Gren said:

I have an old small windscreen wiper (ex-rear-window-size) that I keep on the floor beside the drivers seat.  I use that to clear the side windows etc as it doesn't absorb the water as a cloth would do. 

Hmm that's not a bad idea, although the wipers I have last for ages so it might be a while before I can try that out