12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[taff109]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:39 PM, Cyker said:

Annoyingly this problem has existed for ages; I remember it being an issue with the 1st gen Auris when that came out too. That said, I do think it's more down to the car not being used enough. Maybe they should have put a higher current DC-DC converter to charge it faster?

 

The newt shock is the very high cost of a vehicle 12v battery?

 

[flash22]

AGM batteries run £120 - £170, the New LN type are £70-110 there are only a few manufactures of these batteries, the main 2 being Yuasa and Panasonic

[Dala]

I hope this is not a toyota.

 

https://electrek.co/2022/07/26/tesla-ransom-customer-over-80-miles-battery-range/

[Roy124]

Dala, not just batteries, they all do in including Toyota. 

You can buy a BMW with a heated steering wheel.  You either specify it when you buy it, or later for a subscription or one off fee. 

My Corolla was capable of but not enabled for Android Auto. 

We know that wiring looms are common but the plugins are extras. 

In the Tesla Battery case, the full price (profit) might be unaffordable for some.  Why forego a sale because its too expensive or profit when someone can pay more?

[Dala]

I 

I meant the information that the manufacturer can reduce the Battery capacity in this way.  Can't he do it remotely?  What else can he do?  What do we not know about?  Can't it destroy the 12v car Battery sooner?  Get users to shop more often?

  Quote

[Parts-King]

Manufacturers often over engineer a product and you can "purchase" an upgrade in one way or another. For instance, they often make a car at say 150 BHP, but also another souped up version at 180 BHP, the only difference is the mapping of the engine ECU, but they sell the car for considerably more but it is basically the same car 

[Cyker]

5 hours ago, Dala said:

I 

I meant the information that the manufacturer can reduce the battery capacity in this way.  Can't he do it remotely?  What else can he do?  What do we not know about?  Can't it destroy the 12v car battery sooner?  Get users to shop more often?

  Quote

No that's just Tesla limiting the use of the traction Battery behind a paywall, nothing to do with the 12v - They used to sell P60s with P90 Battery packs, but artificially limit them to sell them at a lower price point, with an option for the owner to 'upgrade' to a P90 by paying the extra few thousand difference later.

It's one of many reasons why I try to avoid always-connected cars, and why I'd never buy a Tesla, as they are bringing the frankly disgusting business practices of the software world to cars, and everyone that buys one of their cars only has themselves to blame when such practices become so widespread they're defacto acceptable.

One of the most awful ones is their full self driving package, which is 'licensed', so it only applies to the driver of that car - If you sell the car and they find out, they remotely disable it! This is also what happened to the Battery in that article, as they fit a bigger battery to the car than it was specced for, but forgot to limit it from 90 to 60kWh, until it came in for a service. Instead of just being a good company and letting it go, they limited it and tried to extort more money out of the new owner. They consistently treat their customers like this as soon as they step out of the boundaries they want to keep them in. Absolutely disgusting company.

It's because of them that BMW have tried this sickening subscription service for things like a heated steering wheel to see if they can get away with it.

The 12v battery isn't something anyone could limit 'remotely'; I don't think anyone has even thought of that as it's so nonsensical. The closest thing I know of that is german cars, where a new 12v battery needs to be coded to the car to work properly, otherwise lots of car functions don't work properly, but that requires a garage visit to do anyway.

Thankfully Toyota don't seem to have achieved this level of awfulness yet - The only subscription services they have are for on-line stuff and stuff that needs regular updates, which is at least reasonable, unlike BMW's monthly subscription for a fixed heated steering wheel!!!

(If this becomes a common practice, I really hope everyone just buys the base-spec car and hacks all the features on for free!)

 

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

 

(If this becomes a common practice, I really hope everyone just buys the base-spec car and hacks all the features on for free!)

 

And avoids franchised dealers less they override the hack. 

What about Toyota Smart Connect?  By all accounts the Satnav doesn't work if you are not connected.  I think Smart Connect is free for 4 years? 

What happens after that?  With Touch 2 Go you can continue to use it; your choice to update. 

 

[Cyker]

That's the rub... I guarantee Toyota won't keep the servers for all that stuff on-line forever so don't get used to having it in the long term.

Anything that relies on 'The Cloud' is only temporary.

It's why I wasn't too broken up about not having SatNav in the Mk4 - I'd much rather use AA/ACP as even if those go away you can still use the device.

The other problem we're going to run into is the 3Gpocalypse - A lot of cars use 3G to connect to the internet, but 3G is being turned off soon and no manufacturer will offer an update for older cars so they will permanently loose their cell connections!

[isnsiie]

Toyota  service finally charge me £160  including VAT for replacing the Battery. They quoted £180 in the beginning. 

[Dala]

16 minutes ago, isnsiie said:

Toyota  service finally charge me £160  including VAT for replacing the battery. They quoted £180 in the beginning. 

Yuasa HJ-S34B20L-A or another ?

https://www.countybattery.co.uk/images/companies/1/HJ-S34B20L-A.pdf?1536313603283

add:

sorry , I found it late - Yaris 2016

[Derek.w]

Thats Battery wont fit new model Yaris MK4 if you look at the base no lugs to hold it down.

Look at silver calcinm by Yuasa HSB202 Part no YB5202 45AH 440 volts

You need a EFB type with lugs around base.

Note MK 3 no lugs around base but Battery post are opposite polarity.

[Dala]

great solution from hyundai 

[Roy124]

And Kia I am told

[Dala]

yes also KIA

 

[Derek.w]

I fitted a Battery Monitor plus a ctek charge option that at least I am not using in the summer

and a 20 watt solar panel without a solar controller but with a 4 amp blocking diode.

[Cyker]

Toyota need to steal this idea!!!   

[Newbie47]

Anyone tried one of these?

https://shop.ringautomotive.com/rppl200-lithium-jump-starter.html

 

[Derek.w]

Jump starters not good for regular use of any Battery type.

If its just one or twice a year ok others otherwise you need a slower way of charging your Battery

[Newbie47]

2 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Jump starters not good for regular use of any battery type.

If its just one or twice a year ok others otherwise you need a slower way of charging your battery

Thank you.

Yep just thinking of getting one to put in the glove box for emergency use only.

Concerned after reading some posts that this might be necessary after a 2 week holiday (no electric in garage either)

[Derek.w]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:18 PM, Dala said:

problem solving ?
lithium batteries would fit in size

https://www.mightymaxbattery.com/shop/lifepo4/ml35-12li-12v-35ah-deep-cycle-lithium-battery/

https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12-volt-lithium-batteries/chargex-12v-35ah-lithium-battery.php

https://www.sears.com/mighty-max-battery-ml35-12li101-mighty-max-12v/p-A065207506

You have a big problem clamping this down on a mark 4 Yaris.

See my Battery clamp at base.

[Derek.w]

No electric in garage well in that case fit a external solar panel to the roof if pushed for time use the jump start terminals the ones next to Battery will be best.

[Newbie47]

7 hours ago, Derek.w said:

No electric in garage well in that case fit a external solar panel to the roof if pushed for time use the jump start terminals the ones next to battery will be best.

Thank you

Would you recommend something like the below for use while on holiday?
 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Photonic-Universe-controller-battery-motorhome/dp/B009FP2R2K

[Roy124]

11 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Jump starters not good for regular use of any battery type.

If its just one or twice a year ok others otherwise you need a slower way of charging your battery

Not sure what you are getting at here.   For a conventional ICE starter Battery regular use suggests you need a new 12v Battery. 

For this Ring jumper pack,  and several less expensive ones on Amazon it does not recharge the car 12v Battery,  nor does it discharge greatly when used. 

It just supplies sufficient power to start the system and enable Ready mode. 

The 2 hr charge mentioned is the time to recharge the battery pack and not the car battery. 

When I used mine it used very little capacity and has no perceptible discharge overtime. 

[Roy124]

Solar panels certainly have their place in maintaining Battery voltage and can be the ideal solution in many cases.   There are limitations. 

They don't work if you park your car in a garage, car port,  or with insufficient light. 

In winter,  in England,  you should be OK,  but if there was heavy snow it could be a problem 🌨️❄️