12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[calcium]

Ah, wish I'd paid attention to this topic sooner. I've had my Yaris Cross from new in November 2022, and I've done less mileage than I anticipated; my finance is for 8000 per year but I'm only at 8600 after a year and a half. So it seems somewhat inevitable that I'd hit this issue sooner or later. I tried to turn the car back on in Tesco's car park late last night, only to be greeted with a choir of beeps and warnings, everything from 'braking power low' to 'voltage abnormality' to simply 'low battery'. The AA were out in less than an hour and got me going immediately.

I then went for an hour drive - not necessary I know, I could've just left it in Ready. But that's less fun. Anyway I made a late night order of a NOCO Battery charger from Amazon which arrived this morning, and I've had it hooked up charging all day.

I think it was probably on the brink earlier this week, but I perhaps delayed the incident with a 200-mile round trip on Tuesday/Wednesday, then a 40min drive Thursday; however last night I was sat in the car at Tesco with the engine off, ventilation off, and radio on for about 10-15mins and I guess that was enough to kill it. I will report back any further incidents after a full charge.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, hind said:

I don't think it's connected, 12v battery is charged regardless of the drive used (EV or not). Maybe GPF cleaning kicked in? There are actually many potential causes to that, without the service diagnostics it's impossible to guess why it is hesitant to switch to EV 

Exactly that, low 12v Battery loads the hybrid system and the engine will run almost constantly.

 
For the big screens and connected services, definitely not a great idea or something useful but the customers are looking for it and car reviews and forum discussion look more like a mobile device discussion rather than automobiles , add the unnecessary big alloy wheels with almost no rubber on them and most new cars look like a Mexican tuning on American cars from mid 80’s . 

 

[Chas G]

@calcium don't forget to keep your Noco & leads in the front of the car. If you end up with a really flat Battery you may find the only door you can open is the drivers door with the key.

I keep mine in the door pocket and my long jump leads tucked under the seat.

Ps Apologies if I miss read your post I thought you had bought a Noco jump pack.

[Yaris_Cross]

59 minutes ago, calcium said:

Anyway I made a late night order of a NOCO battery charger from Amazon

That looks like a handy thing to have in the car in case of emergency, could i ask how much it cost?

[Chas G]

9 minutes ago, Yaris_Cross said:

That looks like a handy thing to have in the car in case of emergency, could i ask how much it cost?

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb20-500a-jump-starter-721880.html?cm_mmc=Google+PLA-_-Motoring>Motoring+Products>Battery+Maintenance>Jump+Starters-_-Motoring>Motoring+Products>Battery+Maintenance>Jump+Starters-_-721880&&_$ja=tsid:|cid:17363835999|agid:|tid:|crid:|nw:x|rnd:7241366603296303207|dvc:m|adp:|mt:|loc:9046084&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpZWzBhC0ARIsACvjWRNQOE9giDNMhDeNwIxVagv6lAUbftSdGCm-BhZ-6_CY9xD9KY_vMUsaAvP7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Can be bought cheaper on flea bay. I used mine to start my neighbours Peugeot 3008 diesel car.

[Paul john]

5 minutes ago, Chas G said:

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb20-500a-jump-starter-721880.html?cm_mmc=Google+PLA-_-Motoring>Motoring+Products>Battery+Maintenance>Jump+Starters-_-Motoring>Motoring+Products>Battery+Maintenance>Jump+Starters-_-721880&&_$ja=tsid:|cid:17363835999|agid:|tid:|crid:|nw:x|rnd:7241366603296303207|dvc:m|adp:|mt:|loc:9046084&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpZWzBhC0ARIsACvjWRNQOE9giDNMhDeNwIxVagv6lAUbftSdGCm-BhZ-6_CY9xD9KY_vMUsaAvP7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Can be bought cheaper on flea bay. I used mine to start my neighbours Peugeot 3008 diesel car.

Quality piece of kit

[Yaris_Cross]

That is a good piece of kit i had no idea something so small would jump a petrol or diesel engine as well as a dead Hybrid.

 

 

[Roy124]

My booster is smaller than a slim paperback.  I keep it under the bonnet in its case on a ledge ahead of the radiator.

At first I checked its charge every month, now I don't bother except before a trip where I anticipate I might need it.

Only time I have needed to top it up is after it was used to charge a phone

[Chas G]

16 minutes ago, Yaris_Cross said:

That is a good piece of kit i had no idea something so small would jump a petrol or diesel engine as well as a dead Hybrid.

 

 

On your Yaris Cross the 12 volt Battery is under the rear seat cover and the terminals are difficult to access......much easier to connect to the "red" jump terminal in the fuse box in the engine compartment and a decent earth point (avoid any thin metal plates). There is a photo in the hand book showing the red jump terminal. 

[Yaris_Cross]

Can you not safely use both Battery terminal like the guy in the video above?

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, calcium said:

however last night I was sat in the car at Tesco with the engine off, ventilation off, and radio on for about 10-15mins and I guess that was enough to kill it. I will report back any further incidents after a full charge.

I think that's it - The 12v Battery in the hybrids are noticeably smaller than in normal cars so running the whole car off them quickly depletes them; I think Toyota thought they could save weight since the 12v Battery does almost nothing most of the time.

We've been strongly recommending to people that if you're sitting in your car waiting and listening to the radio, don't put it into Aux mode like you would in a normal car, but leave it in On/Ready mode so the big traction Battery is supplying power instead of the tiny 12v battery, to avoid this problem.

 

42 minutes ago, Yaris_Cross said:

That is a good piece of kit i had no idea something so small would jump a petrol or diesel engine as well as a dead Hybrid.

Yeah they've come a long way from the big heavy lead-acid battery jump starters we used to have!!

 

16 minutes ago, Yaris_Cross said:

Can you not safely use both battery terminal like the guy in the video above?

You can, but in the Yaris Mk4's it's hard to get to as the battery is under the rear bench seat - Much easier to use the jump terminals in the engine bay.

 

[Yaris_Cross]

 

Quote

Much easier to use the jump terminals in the engine bay.

 

Thanks i have had a look ion YouTube - 

 

 

[hind]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

12v battery loads the hybrid system

12V Battery charging (according to values someone measured and published in this topic) is putting around 15A just after start and around 6A afterdwards. This means 200W max and around 75W load average. 

Meanwhile A/C compressor can consume around 3000W (that's why it's powered from the HV battery) yet it's possible to have it running without the ICE starting for some time. Should I mention the power of the electric engines capable of moving the vehicle? 😉  

[TonyHSD]

19 hours ago, hind said:

12V battery charging (according to values someone measured and published in this topic) is putting around 15A just after start and around 6A afterdwards. This means 200W max and around 75W load average. 

Meanwhile A/C compressor can consume around 3000W (that's why it's powered from the HV battery) yet it's possible to have it running without the ICE starting for some time. Should I mention the power of the electric engines capable of moving the vehicle? 😉  

That’s right .
However when AC is running the engine starts more often even with hybrid Battery at good charge level. All consumers are related and all energy in these cars comes from the petrol engine. The batteries are only to store this energy. The car hybrid system has a algorithm how to use this energy.
The engine starts more often to help the hybrid Battery when more consumers are discharging the Battery, for example when AC is running, when your 12v battery is low, when hybrid battery is at higher temperature, or at low state of charge. The engine also starts to preserve hybrid battery not only to charge it , and sometimes to discharge the battery.
There are some cases when the engine will be running without obvious reasons and this is to balance the battery voltage between  each cell and , again it’s all about preserving the battery and extending its life. 

[hind]

The key here is "more often". How do you describe it? Amount of energy required to run A/C for a minute equals 15 minutes of charging the Battery on full power. I'm not saying that charging the 12V Battery doesn't matter. It just doesn't have that much of an impact on the overall power consumption as we have other, much more power hungry consumers in the equation 🙂 

That's why I'm pretty sure this has nothing (or more precisely - very little) to do with the 12V charging and the reason for not shutting down the ICE is definitely something else.

[Emma Wright]

Hello. I have a Yaris 22 plate. I’ve had the 12 volt Battery go flat twice. Called out the AA both times and they jumped it. They said Toyota have a problem with the batteries and we should get our Battery replaced. I am calling Toyota today to discuss. I have been looking at getting a Battery booster but it’s a bit overwhelming trying to work out what to buy to do this. Any help would be great. 

[hind]

1 hour ago, Emma Wright said:

I have been looking at getting a battery booster but it’s a bit overwhelming trying to work out what to buy to do this.

Just scroll 11 posts up and read from there 🙂 

[TonyHSD]

On 6/10/2024 at 3:36 PM, hind said:

The key here is "more often". How do you describe it? Amount of energy required to run A/C for a minute equals 15 minutes of charging the battery on full power. I'm not saying that charging the 12V battery doesn't matter. It just doesn't have that much of an impact on the overall power consumption as we have other, much more power hungry consumers in the equation 🙂 

That's why I'm pretty sure this has nothing (or more precisely - very little) to do with the 12V charging and the reason for not shutting down the ICE is definitely something else.

No argument here, we all have our opinions and experiences.

Because you are sure that dead 12v Battery has nothings to do with engine running or ac on , but I have experienced and evidence it’s exactly opposite.
Dead batteries either hybrid or the auxiliary one on any Toyota hybrid will make the engine running more often and for longer time as this is the primary source of energy in these cars. 
 

[Emma Wright]

Rang Toyota. Car is booked in for a check over of the 12 volt Battery. I have a feeling I will be fobbed off that the Battery is fine and I clearly don’t use the car enough (I think I do). The AA man said that they know Toyota have an issue and the Battery should be replaced. He said at the factory they are now putting in different batteries (don’t know this is correct or not). How much do you push it with Toyota? I don’t think they will want to change it. I’ve ordered a battery booster in case it happens again. 

[Johnold]

Hi 

Can I ask which NOCO Battery charger you guys have purchased from Amazon

All being well I should have my new Yaris Excel within the next few weeks

Thanks

John

 

 

 

 

 

[Chas G]

52 minutes ago, Johnold said:

Hi 

Can I ask which NOCO battery charger you guys have purchased from Amazon

All being well I should have my new Yaris Excel within the next few weeks

Thanks

John

 

 

 

 

 

NOCO GB20.......it started my next door neighbours Peugeot 3008 diesel without any problem.

[ColinB]

2 hours ago, Chas G said:

NOCO GB20.......it started my next door neighbours Peugeot 3008 diesel without any problem.

Same here, used on my C-HR and also on daughter's other half's Fiesta - several times until he actually went out and bought a new battery 🙄

[Yaris_Cross]

 

Cheapest GB20 Amazon

£89.99 free delivery.

 

 

 

[Johnold]

Hi

Thanks for the info I have just ordered a NOCO from Amazon

Going of topic because I am a belt and braces guy my dealer is supplying a spare wheel and the kit to go with it

I have zero confidence in the repair kits supplied with cars these days

Thanks to all

John

[Yaris_Cross]

1 hour ago, Johnold said:

Going of topic because I am a belt and braces guy my dealer is supplying a spare wheel and the kit to go with it

I have zero confidence in the repair kits supplied with cars these days

Could i the price.

Repair kits are OK if the tyre has a screw in it but if the sidewall is spilt they are useless i too will buy the spare kit if it isn't a ridiculous amount to buy.