12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Derek.w]

4 hours ago, Dala said:

I had the MUTLU car battery replaced with VARTA. The regulator I use distinguishes all types of car batteries.

 

It a sealed Battery with a twin head EFB type note it also has a vent tube to the outside.

I noted nobody has quoated the striking voltage of the solar controller this can be 2 volts upto 5 volts above Battery voltage depending on controller.

A MPPT controller out preforms a PWM unit in low light conditions.

[RickyC]

On 7/7/2024 at 11:20 AM, Dala said:

The principle of operation is the same. You can't recharge to 100% a car battery by driving.

Maybe, but due to DC-DC recharging system the Battery recharge process doesn't depend by RPMs or the driven distance but only from how many time car stays in READY mode ( stationary or moving is quite indifferent ). 

[Camryman]

On 1/21/2022 at 6:55 PM, Joby1 said:

Hello

I’ve have a 2020 new model yaris hybrid. In the last 10 days I’ve had to get roadside assistance twice as the 12v battery was dead. First time the car had been stationary for 3 days, the second time 2 days. Dealership today checked if there was a electrical fault (no) but said it needed a full charge up, which they did. Issue is - apparently flat 12v battery is a hybrid issue (due to of engine running from hybrid battery mainly it doesn’t fully charge the 12v.) Apparently there have been cases of people going on holiday for 2 weeks, coming back to a dead battery. I’m concerned as over the next few months due to work I will be leaving my car a few times for a week or two at the airport.

Seems a serious design fault of Toyota when they have a strong reputation for reliability!  
Has anyone else experienced this? Does anyone have a solution? Am thinking I may well be better to sell the car and start afresh. 
Thank you for any advice. 

I was checking the price for a new Battery on the Toyota parts direct site and noticed they do a solar panel that plugs into the OBD port. Maybe this is the answer if leaving the car for several weeks?

[152bobby]

6 minutes ago, Camryman said:

I was checking the price for a new battery on the Toyota parts direct site and noticed they do a solar panel that plugs into the OBD port. Maybe this is the answer if leaving the car for several weeks?

If I go down this trickle charging route, I'd be going for the OBD option.  Most have the OBD option.  However, my car(s) are always kept in a garage nearly all of their life and when I go on holiday, its in the airport multi story car park !!

Car Battery Solar Battery Charger EOBD Trickle Charger Maintainer 12V Caravans Etc https://amzn.eu/d/05ZMvXbU

[Dala]

4,8W/12V=0,4A

0,4Ax30%=120mA

it's not enough for a 44Ah or 35Ah Battery

[152bobby]

11 minutes ago, Dala said:

4,8W/12V=0,4A

0,4Ax30%=120mA

it's not enough for a 44Ah or 35Ah battery

It was just an example of a OBD one , there are more powerful ones out there 👍

[Yaris_Cross]

Got myself a new T shirt today 

 

[Cowgirl]

7 hours ago, Dala said:

4,8W/12V=0,4A

0,4Ax30%=120mA

it's not enough for a 44Ah or 35Ah battery

Well I have a 2.4W solar charger which I plug into the OBD port, depending on conditions it either maintains charge or increases the charge - so yes it is enough.

[Camryman]

7 hours ago, Dala said:

4,8W/12V=0,4A

0,4Ax30%=120mA

it's not enough for a 44Ah or 35Ah battery

As long as the solar makes more than the car uses the Battery won't discharge, and even if it is less it will still slow down the discharge rate.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Yaris_Cross said:

Got myself a new T shirt today 

 

TOC T-shirt shop in 3...2...1...  

[Red_Corolla]

On 7/8/2024 at 9:30 PM, Cyker said:

The fact that he keeps saying "milli-ampere-hours" when talking about current draw annoys me and tells me he probably doesn't know what he's talking about.

mAh is a measure of energy capacity, not energy use - That's just milliamps!

 

It's actually for both capacity and use, but I'll let it slide😜

Pedantry aside, you're quite right, he's using the term to describe the power draw, and that's wrong. '35mAh' could mean he was drawing 2 whole amps, if he only used a one minute sample! 😆

[Derek.w]

3 hours ago, Cowgirl said:

Well I have a 2.4W solar charger which I plug into the OBD port, depending on conditions it either maintains charge or increases the charge - so yes it is enough.

For myself I needed 2x30 Watt solar panels & that was on a good sunny day managed about 13 volts so added a 20 watt panel so on a good day it go upto 14 volts+.....

Without any solar panels connected Battery can maintain its voltage for a day on July 1st

It was raining so stayed inside.

Today July the 9 it rained all day so it at 12.68 at 21:30 hours.

 

 

[liquidv]

Have read the Derek's entire thread regarding the YBX5202 YUASA Battery replacement, however can anyone tell me if the YBX5202 YUASA 12V 45AH HSB202 Battery need venting, or is the vent plug/connector prefitted on the Battery? 

Also, is the 12v battery replacement for the mk3 the same as the mk4? Can't find any youtube videos for the mk4 battery replacement.

Thanks

[hind]

There is a hole in the Battery, check the Google images 🙂

[Derek.w]

On 7/10/2024 at 5:14 PM, liquidv said:

Have read the Derek's entire thread regarding the YBX5202 YUASA battery replacement, however can anyone tell me if the YBX5202 YUASA 12V 45AH HSB202 battery need venting, or is the vent plug/connector prefitted on the battery? 

Also, is the 12v battery replacement for the mk3 the same as the mk4? Can't find any youtube videos for the mk4 battery replacement.

Thanks

Vien Ly,

New Battery for MK4 will have vents pluged you remove one and attach the tube that vents it to the outside.

Diffrent Battery types for MK3 & MK4 cars and Battery +&- poles are opposite way round.

[Derek.w]

Hi Vien Ly

Picture of vent plug location on Battery near negitive termanal.

[liquidv]

57 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Hi Vien Ly

Picture of vent plug location on battery near negitive termanal.

Brilliant, thank you Derek!

[MCatPG]

On 7/7/2024 at 11:03 AM, Yaris_Cross said:

I can honestly say in the 40+ years of owning an ICE car i have never worried about parking the car for a week or two this battery anxiety has only become a thing since hybrids with tiny 12v batteries  became a thing.

The problem is not just the tiny size of the 12V Battery.

The problem is the parasitic loads - lots of things, each consuming tiny amounts of current, which add up to a lot - and the fact that you can't turn any of them off. I met a tech who told me there are usually more than a hundred PLCs (programmable logic controllers) in a typical modern car, whether ICE or hybrid.

Obviously a Battery with greater capacity will take longer to discharge but the days have gone when you could turn off the master switch (the ignition switch), lock the doors manually, and leave the car with the Battery effectively disconnected so that the only discharge was internal, and therefore infinitesimal in a battery  in good condition.

Obviously bigger batteries take longer to discharge than smaller batteries but all a bigger battery does is delay the inevitable damage caused by excessive discharge from parasitic loads, and that's the big problem about which we can do nothing except always have our cars plugged into a supply of electricity when we leave them for any length of time (or buy a classic car).

Question: What would happen if one inserted a master switch in the positive output of the 12V battery and turned it off when leaving the car for a week or two?

Thread drift: At the grid level there is the same problem. Walk round any modern house, office, factory, public facility...  and calculate the parasitic current from things that are "always on". Computers, chargers, emergency lights, monitoring equipment, alarms, TVs, appliances......  lots of things each drawing a little bit of current, 24x7x365. It adds up to an enormous load on a country's generation and distribution system. It's a serious problem.

[CPN]

nail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head!!

(answer to your question? - probably nothing and it would start fine after a few weeks when you switched it back on! The Toyota mothership would probably get her knickers in a bit of a twist meanwhile... )

[hind]

2 hours ago, MCatPG said:

all a bigger battery does is delay the inevitable damage caused by excessive discharge from parasitic loads

I disagree. If the Battery is not discharged under certain threshold and is charged up regularly either because we drive longer routes or we plug in the charger, then the parasitic load has absolutely nothing to do with the damage. It's definitely not "inevitable".

2 hours ago, MCatPG said:

Computers, chargers, emergency lights, monitoring equipment, alarms, TVs, appliances......  lots of things each drawing a little bit of current, 24x7x365. It adds up to an enormous load on a country's generation and distribution system. It's a serious problem.

On the other hand we switched to LED lighting which dropped the usage of the electricity. Plus, all these systems are really beneficial to us (maybe apart from the TV 😉 ). Plugging the power supplies off the socket might save you a penny but the surge current when you plug it back in might damage the unit.  

And all these systems you mentioned - do you really want to live without them? 🙂 Honestly I think that EV's charging is much of a bigger issue (from the electric grid perspective) than the unplugged phone charger is.

[CPN]

18 minutes ago, hind said:

I disagree. If the battery is not discharged under certain threshold and is charged up regularly either because we drive longer routes or we plug in the charger, then the parasitic load has absolutely nothing to do with the damage. It's definitely not "inevitable".

It will be if we don't do either of those two things at all.

18 minutes ago, hind said:

On the other hand we switched to LED lighting which dropped the usage of the electricity.

Only during the time that the lights are on...

18 minutes ago, hind said:

And all these systems you mentioned - do you really want to live without them? 🙂

Of course not... (unless you are a Luddite 🤣)

18 minutes ago, hind said:

 Honestly I think that EV's charging is much of a bigger issue (from the electric grid perspective) than the unplugged phone charger is.

That much I will agree with you on...

[hind]

8 hours ago, CPN said:

will be if we don't do either of those two things at all.

Same story goes for every car. Capacity buys time but with negative energy balance (usage vs production) every Battery is doomed 

[Cyker]

The moral of this is hoon your car like your Battery depends on it!   

[Chas G]

15 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The moral of this is hoon your car like your battery depends on it!   

You would have liked my Blydenstein Caterham 140bhp and about 580kg weight. No power steering or abs, just 3 pedals and a steering wheel. Perfect for hanging the back out round the Uxbridge roundabout 😀

[Derek.w]

There two ways to look at it.

1 MFG Design well that for the boffins at Toyota.

2 What can the used do to overcome Battery problems.

Well thats down to us OPTIONS Larger Battery, Batter booster packs followed by Mains charger once a week for low milage users, 1 or more solar panel ether inside car or on a wall outside House or garage.