12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[John Robert]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:55 PM, John Robert said:

I have a Yaris Hybrid 2021 model. Recently had 12v battery problem. Halfords managed to flatten it when UNsuccessfully trying to fit Dash cameras. As I had not experienced this before (on a hybrid), had to phone local Toyota to explain what I was getting on dashboard. .... Dare I say this was a little fortuitous ?  Because last week I had same thing on dash, so knew what was wrong. The car had on the Monday, done a 80 mile run, parked in garage, Thursday, 7am Flat battery. stuck it on trickle charge for two days. Using the couplings in the fuse box.

Now I'm worried it could happen If we go out for the day ?

 

 

[John Robert]

THANK YOU, To all the members that took the time to answer my problem.  I have bought the booster as suggested, charged it and its residing in my glovebox. Little change out of £100.00. But, What price peace of mind ???

Question.  If left in READY mode then lights will be on because its inside garage which is dark, lights are automatic.  Does having Dash cams (front & rear) drain much from Battery as they are powered up 24/7 in bump mode. so even opening a door sets cameras off.

[Dala]

48 minutes ago, John Robert said:

...If left in READY mode then lights will be on because its inside garage which is dark, lights are automatic...

If you do not move the gear selector from "P" - the lights will switch off after a while.

48 minutes ago, John Robert said:

...Does having Dash cams (front & rear) drain much from battery as they are powered up 24/7 in bump mode. so even opening a door sets cameras off...

For dash cameras with parking mode 24/7 it is necessary to use a safety device - it disconnects the cameras in case of low voltage. Usually not included with the camera, it must be purchased. 

Attention! When the parking mode is switched off, the dash cameras consume power for this function. You will see in winter - there is a wheel on the frost around the dash camera.

[Paul john]

2 hours ago, Dala said:

If you do not move the gear selector from "P" - the lights will switch off after a while.

For dash cameras with parking mode 24/7 it is necessary to use a safety device - it disconnects the cameras in case of low voltage. Usually not included with the camera, it must be purchased. 

Attention! When the parking mode is switched off, the dash cameras consume power for this function. You will see in winter - there is a wheel on the frost around the dash camera.

Wow. They warm the glass that much?

[Dala]

18 minutes ago, Paul john said:

Wow. They warm the glass that much?

Yes, this is a normal feature for dash cameras with parking mode. You won't see it in the summer. Even if you turn off parking mode in the settings - the dash camera will still heat this glass.

  

[hind]

1 minute ago, Dala said:

Even if you turn off parking mode in the settings - the dash camera will still heat this glass.

I'd call that a design fault 😉 

[dash]

10 minutes ago, hind said:

I'd call that a design fault 😉 

Maybe it's a design feature to enable the camera to continue 'seeing' when snow/ice on the windscreen 🤔

[Dala]

If it does impact detection, it will start recording for several of seconds after the impact. The way the best ones work is to be recording continuously to a 10 second RAM ring buffer that will be recorded to the FLASH memory when the camera detects a change in the image it is recording so that its recording begins 10 seconds before the motion is detected. In most cases, this will use the same amount of power as when you are driving. Dashcams typically use about 1A at 5V which is 5W. Assuming the regulator they use is 80% efficient, that is about 0.5A from the 12V Battery.

These are the general basics for all dash cameras with parking mode. If you don't set everything up correctly - there is a risk of a dead car Battery.

[hind]

1 hour ago, dash said:

design feature to enable the camera to continue 'seeing' when snow/ice on the windscreen

Why would it need that if 

1 hour ago, Dala said:

you turn off parking mode in the settings

? 🙂 

Car is not driving, parking mode is disabled, why would it heat up? 

[Dala]

23 minutes ago, hind said:

Car is not driving, parking mode is disabled, why would it heat up? 

If you disconnect the car trailer from the car and drive off without it, does the towbar stay in your garage ?

[Paul john]

I’m going to be fitting a Dashcam soon but im going to be putting a Powerbank in series between the switched 12v (only on when the car ignition is on) and the Nextbase unit(s).

That way the Powerbank will supply the voltage for the units and be recharged whilst i am driving. 

something similar to this…

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JIGA-30000mAh-Flashlight-Ultra-High-Compatible/dp/B08LKDCFZN/

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Bank-50000mAh-Capacity-Portable/dp/B0BR94GDCD/

[Paul john]

4 minutes ago, Dala said:

If you disconnect the car trailer from the car and drive off without it, does the towbar stay in your garage ?

Lol. Mine does as its detatchable 😂

[hind]

7 minutes ago, Dala said:

does the towbar stay in your garage ?

 Dala that's nonsensical example 🙂 Does your interior light heat up when it's off? 

Unless you have shock sensor triggers or whatever which might justify powering up the accelerometer, when the ACC input is low (switched off) the device should drain the minimum amount of energy. Even the worst Chinese MDVR's use fractions of watt when you plug them into the power but without ACC. Trust me, I work with these devices every day. If they heat up to the point where they can melt the snow from the windscreen while in off state, that's a sign of bad device (either design fault or manufacturer defect) causing the device to stay awake.

If you're curious, tomorrow I can measure the current consumed by the advanced Dashcam which keeps the GSM modem online (waiting for the wake-up packet), while it stays in sleep mode. 

[HarryW2024]

Popped into a Toyota/Lexus dealership this morning and every single car I looked at had a dead 12v Battery and or a charger connected up. The dealer just said it’s !Removed! annoying…

[Cyker]

Yeah dashcams generate a surprising amount of heat; Poor things are often run at the limit of their operating temperature, usually with no heatsink or any sort of active cooling.

The problem is most of them are off-the-shelf chipsets and are just packaged in a nice case with the camera part; Very little custom programming or optimization goes into them which is why the menus and such are virtually identical with most of them.

A lot of the heat is because the CPU/chipset package is running at full power all the time - That's fair enough during normal use where it's encoding 2k/4k MP4 at 30 or 60fps, but they don't usually bother optimizing the code for power save states when in e.g. parking mode so they continue running at full power and still put out a good chunk of heat.

 

On a tangent, I also get a defrosted area around my HUD projector and ADAS camera if the snow/frost isn't too severe, as both of those also generate a lot of heat during use, and take quite a while to cool down.

 

  

2 hours ago, Paul john said:

I’m going to be fitting a dashcam soon but im going to be putting a Powerbank in series between the switched 12v (only on when the car ignition is on) and the nextbase unit(s).

That way the Powerbank will supply the voltage for the units and be recharged whilst i am driving. 

something similar to this…

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JIGA-30000mAh-Flashlight-Ultra-High-Compatible/dp/B08LKDCFZN/

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Bank-50000mAh-Capacity-Portable/dp/B0BR94GDCD/

Be careful when looking for power banks to do that - Very very few of them will charge AND power a device at the same time. The cheaper ones tend to do it in such a way that shortens the life of the Battery faster than normal, but the ones that do it properly tend to be comparatively very expensive.

A colleague wanted to do a similar thing but found the powerbank would run the Dashcam when the car was off as desired, but as soon as the car powered on and started charging the powerbank it would stop supplying power to the Dashcam! In the end he added swapping the USB cable over to his routine when he stopped and started the car  

Have a look on dashcamtalk as there are a few suitable ones mentioned on there.

[Paul john]

40 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah dashcams generate a surprising amount of heat; Poor things are often run at the limit of their operating temperature, usually with no heatsink or any sort of active cooling.

The problem is most of them are off-the-shelf chipsets and are just packaged in a nice case with the camera part; Very little custom programming or optimization goes into them which is why the menus and such are virtually identical with most of them.

A lot of the heat is because the CPU/chipset package is running at full power all the time - That's fair enough during normal use where it's encoding 2k/4k MP4 at 30 or 60fps, but they don't usually bother optimizing the code for power save states when in e.g. parking mode so they continue running at full power and still put out a good chunk of heat.

 

On a tangent, I also get a defrosted area around my HUD projector and ADAS camera if the snow/frost isn't too severe, as both of those also generate a lot of heat during use, and take quite a while to cool down.

 

  

Be careful when looking for power banks to do that - Very very few of them will charge AND power a device at the same time. The cheaper ones tend to do it in such a way that shortens the life of the battery faster than normal, but the ones that do it properly tend to be comparatively very expensive.

A colleague wanted to do a similar thing but found the powerbank would run the dashcam when the car was off as desired, but as soon as the car powered on and started charging the powerbank it would stop supplying power to the dashcam! In the end he added swapping the USB cable over to his routine when he stopped and started the car  

Have a look on dashcamtalk as there are a few suitable ones mentioned on there.

The higher rated one on the post claims it will, but i have a more expensive one i use for my “portable office” and will sacrifice that if necessary. Ill let everyone know how i get on even if its a complete failure. Totally agree with your sentiments btw. 

[hind]

Can we move the Dashcam discussion to the separate thread as the 12V one is already cluttered with off topic? 🙂

[Cyker]

Aww I thought we were going for the highest number of posts in a thread record!  

[CPN]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

On a tangent, I also get a defrosted area around my HUD projector and ADAS camera if the snow/frost isn't too severe, as both of those also generate a lot of heat during use, and take quite a while to cool down.

I noticed that also last year with the Red Baron during winter days...

[Paul john]

53 minutes ago, hind said:

Can we move the dashcam discussion to the separate thread as the 12V one is already cluttered with off topic? 🙂

Are dashcams not a source of Battery drain?

[Heidfirst]

they can be but good ones will have a Battery protection feature of some kind & cut off when the voltage drops to a level

[Cyker]

I always recommend not connecting a Dashcam to an always-on 12v line - Even with the cut-off threshold, it's just not worth the hassle, esp. on the Mk4s which are already known to have 12v issues.

If you want to use one with park mode or some such that requires it to be wired into an always-on, it's a much better idea to use a pass-through Battery bank like what paul john was talking about doing, as it removes any risk of the Dashcam draining the 12v system.

[RickyC]

19 hours ago, hind said:

 Dala that's nonsensical example 🙂 Does your interior light heat up when it's off? 

Unless you have shock sensor triggers or whatever which might justify powering up the accelerometer, when the ACC input is low (switched off) the device should drain the minimum amount of energy. Even the worst Chinese MDVR's use fractions of watt when you plug them into the power but without ACC. Trust me, I work with these devices every day. If they heat up to the point where they can melt the snow from the windscreen while in off state, that's a sign of bad device (either design fault or manufacturer defect) causing the device to stay awake.

If you're curious, tomorrow I can measure the current consumed by the advanced dashcam which keeps the GSM modem online (waiting for the wake-up packet), while it stays in sleep mode. 

But if camera lens is covered by the snow what camera can record in case the accelerometer detects a shock ?  Only a white image ?

[yossarian247]

19 hours ago, HarryW2024 said:

Popped into a Toyota/Lexus dealership this morning and every single car I looked at had a dead 12v battery and or a charger connected up. The dealer just said it’s !Removed! annoying…

That's pretty much par for the course with modern cars. I use to audit a number of VW group dealers and they had half a dozen CTEK chargers they moved around all of the cars in stock in rotation to stop the batteries going flat.

[hind]

1 hour ago, RickyC said:

But if camera lens is covered by the snow

Read carefully 🙂 we are considering case when the parking mode is disabled and the car ignition is off! I stand by what I said earlier - bad design or manufacturer defect.