12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Dala]

21 hours ago, PortlandBill said:

Would  that effectively do a factory reset and lose all settings? 

What settings do you mean? If you disconnect the car Battery, only the car radio gets tuned out.

[dash]

I’d be worried about losing all the personalised settings (on the media system and on the dash) which I spent ages tweaking to my liking.

[PortlandBill]

29 minutes ago, Dala said:

What settings do you mean? If you disconnect the car battery, only the car radio gets tuned out.

See dash's post ^^^

[r44flyer]

On 10/20/2024 at 4:57 PM, einfachGaer said:

The option directly above AUTO is sufficient, the car goes immediately to 14,4v and doesn't drop.

I suspect this is more to do with the extra load suddenly presented by turning the lights on.
The car's system becomes aware of the extra load so steps up the charge voltage to suit.
When I get a free moment I'll test it and report back.

[r44flyer]

23 hours ago, hind said:

I'm using the charger which measures the mAh's when charging or discharging. I charged with starting voltage of 11.6V (literally 0% according to the diagrams) and finished when the charging current dropped to 0.1A upon reaching 14.4V.

Excellent, that's good to know and what I wanted to hear.
Too many people rely on simple voltage monitors that can't tell you the fully story.
Yes, the voltage & current must be monitored second by second and Ah calculated from those figures in real time.
This is the only way to determine the actual amount of charge or discharge from a Battery.
Those BM2/BM6 monitors aren't much use - only a proper shunt monitor could properly show what's going on.

I did the the same with a smart charger on our old Mutlu Battery and its' capacity was very low compared to the stated rating.
My Optimate charger also condemned the Battery.

[hind]

2 hours ago, r44flyer said:

BM2/BM6 monitors aren't much use

They are useful mainly to track the voltage on, let's say, a weekly basis, so you can determine when it's time for the recharge. If the voltage starts to drop to 12V you know it's high time for that. Also invaluable when investigating the charging algorithm for inbuilt converter. User reports really sched some light in this topic, helping everyone to understand it better and act accordingly. 

[r44flyer]

38 minutes ago, hind said:

They are useful mainly to track the voltage on, let's say, a weekly basis, so you can determine when it's time for the recharge. 

For you yes, nursing a duff Battery, however the majority of owners don't have time for all that faffing about.
They just expect to drive the car and it charge as needed, without any manual charging intervention, and that can be done with a good quality Battery (albeit a higher capacity Yuasa).

The bottom line is your Battery is faulty and should be replaced.

[hind]

I'm not using Battery meter 🙂 but if someone drives rarely or mainly short trips, he can act on time and recharge the Battery before it degrades further. As you can see from my example, not much is needed for it to start the hybrid system. And I never saw any message regarding low voltage. Best proof that it acts when it's already too late. 

[r44flyer]

46 minutes ago, hind said:

I'm not using battery meter 🙂 but if someone drives rarely or mainly short trips, he can act on time and recharge the battery before it degrades further. As you can see from my example, not much is needed for it to start the hybrid system. And I never saw any message regarding low voltage. Best proof that it acts when it's already too late. 

You were supporting the use of Battery monitors but in my view they are a waste of time.
Message regarding low voltage - what does that refer to?
No one expects to have to monitor their Battery, or manually recharge it, in normal use. That's all a bit daft for a modern car.
Your Battery is clearly faulty so the best solution is to replace it.

[dash]

I monitor mine as my car is often left unused for a few days and it's useful to know when might be a good time to put the car into Ready mode to prevent Battery voltage getting too low to start the car. Simply a matter of opening the app, while still in the house, to interrogate the BM6.

[hind]

10 hours ago, r44flyer said:

Message regarding low voltage - what does that refer to?

See post #1 in this thread 😄 

[einfachGaer]

17 hours ago, r44flyer said:

I suspect this is more to do with the extra load suddenly presented by turning the lights on.
The car's system becomes aware of the extra load so steps up the charge voltage to suit.
When I get a free moment I'll test it and report back.

I don't think it has anything to do with extra load, in some situations the front lights are even darker in that setting compared to AUTO. But same behavior 

[Auris Geezer]

As a low milage user, and after having a couple of no start events, saved by my booster pack and a recharge, I've bought a new Yausa YBX 5202 Battery.  Before I fit it, is there anything I should be mindfull of regarding disconnecting it, and is there anything I will have reset/reprogram once the Yuasa is in.  Many thanks.

 

[152bobby]

6 minutes ago, Auris Geezer said:

As a low milage user, and after having a couple of no start events, saved by my booster pack and a recharge, I've bought a new Yausa YBX 5202 battery.  Before I fit it, is there anything I should be mindfull of regarding disconnecting it, and is there anything I will have reset/reprogram once the Yuasa is in.  Many thanks.

 

You have asked all my questions, but to be honest, I'm happy to pay an extra £25 and get it supplied AND fitted on my driveway.

When you do it, can you tell me at what point when accessing the old one, can you actually see what the existing Battery is ?  As I already may have the upgraded one, not sure !!

[r44flyer]

36 minutes ago, einfachGaer said:

I don't think it has anything to do with extra load, in some situations the front lights are even darker in that setting compared to AUTO. But same behavior 

The so called algorithm is simply responding to inputs from system loads, the state of the Battery, maybe even event history and possibly charge/discharge.
The only reason for a change in lights brightness would be voltage change, i.e. more volts, brighter lights

I just did a quick test in Ready Mode.
Engine kicked in and system voltage went from 12.2V to 13.9V.
5 minutes later it stepped up to 14.3V then another few minutes the engine shutdown.
The voltage dropped back to 13.9V - without the engine running this increased voltage could only come from the Hybrid Battery pack.
I then switched the lights from AUTO to full ON - nothing happened in 3 minutes, no voltage change from 13.9V
Got bored, shutdown and locked up.

[r44flyer]

16 minutes ago, Auris Geezer said:

As a low milage user, and after having a couple of no start events, saved by my booster pack and a recharge, I've bought a new Yuasa YBX 5202 battery.  Before I fit it, is there anything I should be mindful of regarding disconnecting it, and is there anything I will have reset/reprogram once the Yuasa is in.  Many thanks.

The Battery change is a little awkward and a tight fit.
You have to be a bit of a contortionist to get at it.
If you are a practical DIYer/good with tools then it's a straight forward job.

Directly behind the drivers seat remove the plastic panel under the back seat.
Disconnect the negative terminal first and move the lead out of the way.
I then covered the Battery neg terminal with some gaffer tape, removed the positive lead, and moved the leads to the sides for access & Battery removal.
There is a gas vent pipe connected to the battery at the top, its push fit so carefully pull it out of the battery.
Carefully remove the battery after removing the clamp.

The new battery has vents both sides so just move the existing plug as needed to match the old battery.
Tape up/cover the negative terminal, slide battery in, re-connect the leads positive first, refit positive terminal cover, negative terminal last, reconnect vent pipe as & when you can, refit clamp, refit panel.
As you connect the negative cable there might be a small spark, but nothing to worry about, just apply it firmly, hold and tighten up.

Just be careful, don't over tighten terminal clamps, take care when applying metal spanner/socket tools to the connections to avoid touching anything else at the same time.

I don't recall having any settings to change or redo, though someone else mentioned radio pre-sets were lost.

Alternatively, take it to somewhere like Halfords and ask them to fit it.

[r44flyer]

4 hours ago, hind said:

See post #1 in this thread 😄 

Ah OK, got it. I never saw a message like that either and my Multu Battery was definitely low/faulty.

[coreye9090]

eeeeeeeeh, that's in accessory mode! no surprise

[einfachGaer]

5 hours ago, r44flyer said:

The so called algorithm is simply responding to inputs from system loads, the state of the battery, maybe even event history and possibly charge/discharge.
The only reason for a change in lights brightness would be voltage change, i.e. more volts, brighter lights

I just did a quick test in Ready Mode.
Engine kicked in and system voltage went from 12.2V to 13.9V.
5 minutes later it stepped up to 14.3V then another few minutes the engine shutdown.
The voltage dropped back to 13.9V - without the engine running this increased voltage could only come from the Hybrid battery pack.
I then switched the lights from AUTO to full ON - nothing happened in 3 minutes, no voltage change from 13.9V
Got bored, shutdown and locked up.

Then you didn't understand what I was talking about.

But it's fine. If your headlights change in brightness just from voltage drop, then you have a different kind of problem.

[r44flyer]

5 minutes ago, einfachGaer said:

Then you didn't understand what I was talking about.

But it's fine. If your headlights change in brightness just from voltage drop, then you have a different kind of problem.

Sorry Sascha, I don't think you have understood any of this...
I'm saying I don't accept your lights are even darker comment.
I haven't said that the brightness changes, I haven't seen that happen, I don't expect it to happen, you raised the subject.

You said "in some situations the front lights are even darker in the ON setting compared to AUTO"
None of that makes any sense.

You also said changing the lights setting changes the charging voltage.
I did a quick test to check your lights ON theory and couldn't confirm what you stated.
Everyone is just guessing about how the system charges and when it charges.

[einfachGaer]

6 minutes ago, r44flyer said:

Sorry Sascha, I don't think you have understood any of this...
I'm saying I don't accept your lights are even darker comment.
I haven't said that the brightness changes, I haven't seen that happen, I don't expect it to happen, you raised the subject.

You said "in some situations the front lights are even darker in the ON setting compared to AUTO"
None of that makes any sense.

You also said changing the lights setting changes the charging voltage.
I did a quick test to check your lights ON theory and couldn't confirm what you stated.
Everyone is just guessing about how the system charges and when it charges.

This will be my last response to you, I'm not going to argue with you anymore.

Sit in the car with AUTO while it's dark or when the sensor threshold in the corner of the dash decides it's dark enough, the headlights will turn on to illuminate the road in front of you. So far so good?

Now, if you turn the knob to one position above AUTO, what happens to your headlights? They dimm, because it's day driving lights. 

YOU came up with the theory that the load increases, which cannot be true if the day driving lights obviously consume less power because they are darker. That's why I brought that up.

I'm pretty sure it's just an input in the control unit, which activates something, probably Toyota doesn't even know themselves.F

act is, I can reproduce what I've stated in my previous posts every time. Doesn't matter if the engine is running or not, as long as it's in ready and the combinations of gear (P or D) + lights knob are recreated.

If that doesn't make sense to you now. I'm sorry, I won't waste anymore time. Have a good day/night whatever 🙂

[r44flyer]

18 minutes ago, einfachGaer said:

This will be my last response to you, I'm not going to argue with you anymore.

OK, I'll accept I might have misunderstood your theory?
I thought you were saying - drive with manual headlights ON instead of AUTO lights

Are you saying - in the day time, switch the side lights ON instead of AUTO lights, to charge the Battery?

Then hopefully someone with a BM2 Battery monitor can test that for us.

[CPN]

To be strictly correct Sascha...

1 hour ago, einfachGaer said:

Now, if you turn the knob to one position above AUTO, what happens to your headlights? They dimm, because it's day driving lights.

...they don't "dim" as such. The headlights specifically turn off because the one position above "Auto" is sidelights on only (Toyota use the term "Position Lights" see table below...). DRLs - daytime running lights are separate and managed separately. (the driver has no control over DRLs - they are managed autonomously by the system)

1 hour ago, einfachGaer said:

YOU came up with the theory that the load increases, which cannot be true if the day driving lights obviously consume less power because they are darker. That's why I brought that up.

I think you are getting confused between daytime running lights and position (side) lights... (they are separate - see above)

[CPN]

Pages 209-210 of the manual might help you understand what's going on with the lights under certain switch combinations...

[Dala]

I described the smart charging of the car Battery while driving and how to switch it off using the lights here: 

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/221979-poll-yarisyaris-cross-hybrid-12v-battery-failure/?do=findComment&comment=1794578