12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Cyker]

I've left my Mk4 for a bit over 2 weeks and it started no problems, so the problem isn't inherent to hybrids, but I use my one constantly during the week as part of my job (So much so that I have to service it roughly every 8-9 months to comply with the 1yr/10k mile requirement of the warranty!  ) 

I think the problem happens more if e.g. the Battery is old, and is especially likely to happen if the car isn't used much, and is then subsequently left for a long time.

That said Toyota should be aware of the problem as it's been a known issue for over 10 years - We had quite a few Auris hybrid owners complaining about it on these very forums back in the day - so it's a bit disappointing they still haven't come up with a solution.

I've suggested that they copy Hyundai's fix, which is quite clever - If the 12v depletes to a certain level, the car cuts off all 12v systems, and requires the owner to manually open the car, press a 12v Reset button, which then re-activates the Battery for a short time, enough for the owner to start the car. It stops the 12v depleting to the point where 'jump-starting' is required and I thought it quite a clever bodge in lieu of something better.

Some newer EVs can also automatically engage the traction batter contactors to charge the Battery, although in the case of hybrids that might not be so useful given how small the hybrid batteries are and how dangerous it is to discharge the hybrid battery!

 

[TruBlu]

I mentioned this problem to my Toyota dealer when my car went in for its first service. Their reply was it was not required to check the Battery as they think the cause was that I had only done 2,500 miles in a year. If the problem existed after regular daily driving they would have looked in to it. Plus they said that my Battery would not be covered by the warranty as they blamed the issue on low mileage. In my opinion a low  Battery state after 5 days of not using the car is pretty poor for reliability. Plus when the battery is low the brake pedal pulsates and one headlight comes on and all the electrics go crazy with a clicking noise coming from somewhere. Four jump starts now in a year and a half.... not good is it on a brand new car? Never had this issue on any non-hybrid car (bring back the alternator I say) in the 41 years I've been driving. Everyone should mention this problem to Toyota having experienced the problem or not. BTW.... the solar trickle charger has not made much differnce unless used on a really sunny day.

[Max_Headroom]

If you are doing such a low milage (2500 anually) the Battery is not getting a full charge as discussed earlier so when you park it you may only have 40%  charge a s you leave it 5 days with stuff running in the background it's not a wonder it goes flar, can I ask why you chose to pay so much for a car that does lots of MPG when you hardly drive it?

[Cyker]

I'm not being funny, but if you only do 2.5k miles a year, why do you even have a car?? You have a 20-25 *thousand* pound vehicle, plus the tax and insurance costs!!

That's a lot of money to spend on something you're not really driving...

If it was a weekend toy then sure, but otherwise I feel it would make more sense to subscribe to a car club or something with such little use. Even using taxies would still be far cheaper in the long run with that sort of mileage!

You could buy a full solar panel and Battery setup twice over with the money you'd save!

Or a lot of pizzas... or a whole pizza chef! Mmm pizza...

(Sorry it's dinner time and I'm hungry and forgot to prepare anything...)

 

[loz8]

44 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

If you are doing such a low milage (2500 anually) the battery is not getting a full charge as discussed earlier so when you park it you may only have 40%  charge a s you leave it 5 days with stuff running in the background it's not a wonder it goes flar, can I ask why you chose to pay so much for a car that does lots of MPG when you hardly drive it?

Sometimes I ask myself that very question Max,they say love is blind,I fell for the technology.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Members have to bear in mind that people's needs vary, and really it is their choice as to how they spend their money.

Some require a car just for the convenience of having one, they may have a health issue, may not have easily accessible public transport, etc, etc.

Not everyone has a car club operating in their area.

For example one of our neighbours had a 59 (2010) reg Fiesta they bought from new. They had  covered 7,900 miles in it by the time they swapped it in 2016 for another new Fiesta. The 2016 Fiesta was recently stolen, and that had covered a similar mileage. They now have  Ka+.

So not everyone does 10,000 miles a year, etc.

People have different reasons for having a car.

Please return to the topic subject - '12v Battery maintenance'.

[Roy124]

TruBlu, sounds like your dealer didn't want the bother.   With several failures in its first year and my documenting the voltage loss my dealer changed the Battery with no argument.  Not only that they fitted a larger Battery. 

 

[Cyker]

I noticed it's a Dynamic  so it might be worth turning off the Smart/Keyless entry system when it's not going to be used for a while to see if that helps with the drain.

I think with such low mileage you're stuck with a trickle-charger tho' - Even Shmee150 has to trickle-charge his collection of super cars to stop the 12v's dying!!

There needs to be a bit more consistency in the Battery warranty coverage tho' as it doesn't look good if some people get a replacement and some don't despite similar circumstances. There's nothing in the warranty specifying a minimum miles driven for it to qualify AFAIK...?

 

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Members have to bear in mind that people's needs vary, and really it is their choice as to how they spend their money.

I totally agree but wonder if Trueblue  had read this thread before buying the car he still would have.

The problem now is it's not going to go away due to the lack of milage so it's either a case of using a charger, drive the car more or change it for a non-hybrid.

[FROSTYBALLS]

There are two ways that the Battery can be charged -

1) by using ready mode and charging the 12v Battery from the hybrid Battery as per the link at the start of this topic (though it wouldn't necessarily need a full hour as per Toyota's advice), or

2) by using a trickle or solar charger.depending on where the car is kept.

[Cyker]

That pretty much sums it up!

(Personally I recommend driving it more - The car is a total riot and should be driven at every available opportunity along interesting and scenic roads  )

[Graham47]

51 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

……so it's either a case of using a charger, drive the car more or change it for a non-hybrid.

Why do you feel a non-hybrid would be any better with low usage ?
Surely the Battery would be depleted more with each start (starter motor load) but would still only be refreshed over a low mileage.

[Derek.w]

Hi everybody I only driving about 2500 miles a year

I have it for convenience plus some cargo trips I do for my other hobby ie keeping pets.

At the end of the day you cannot take your money with you so may as well spend it..

[Dala]

You can charge the car Battery by driving to a maximum of 80% capacity.
Smart charging can cause even a long car ride to charge the car Battery even less.
The capacity of the car Battery decreases rapidly with decreasing temperatures.
The normal amount of parasitic draw in newer cars is up to 85 milliamps = 14.3 amps/week
35 Ah + maximum 80% charge by driving + smart charging + low temperature in the morning + parasitic consumption + short trips = death of car battery in winter within 10 days without driving.
without regular recharging, it is impossible to keep these weak car batteries alive for a long time.
Just check the car battery voltage before driving in "ACCESSORY" mode and "IGNITION ON" with a voltage meter for the cigarette lighter socket in the car.

if the voltage is low - less than 11,4V - it's time for a car charger and recharge the car battery as soon as possible - eg CTEK.

[Max_Headroom]

15 hours ago, Graham47 said:

Why do you feel a non-hybrid would be any better with low usage ?

I have never had a Battery regularly go flat in 5 days even when only doing short journeys i think this thread proves low milage and this type of hybrid do not work you shouldn't have to use a Battery charger on a nearly new car if only parking for 5 days.

BTW i am not knocking hybrids i would have one tomorrow as the amount i drive would mean i wouldn't have the flat Battery problem.

[Graham47]

57 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

I have never had a battery regularly go flat in 5 days even when only doing short journeys i think this thread proves low milage …….

Neither have I.

8800 miles in 4 years.

4 weeks plus 1 week in 2019

5 weeks (twice) in 2020

Often left for 3 days unused over weekends.

Don’t possess a charger any more nor do I use a solar charger.  (That’s like buying a crutch to ‘cure’ a broken leg.)

Very few of my journeys are longer than 15 minutes.

What am I (not) doing that (some) others are ?

I’m convinced that ‘something else’ is the cause that is significantly draining the batter even when the car is used.

As I said earlier …. this thread “proves” nothing.

[Max_Headroom]

52 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

As I said earlier …. this thread “proves” nothing

It's 5 pages long if nothing else it proves some owners are having problems and others not.

[Dala]

It proves that some cars have better quality car batteries.

[IT Troll]

I tend to do infrequent long journeys rather than lots of short journeys. Part of the reason why I went hybrid rather than full EV. I recently left the car for 22 days without use. It started fine. The 12v Battery would have been well charged from the heavy use prior to that.

[Max_Headroom]

43 minutes ago, Dala said:

It proves that some cars have better quality car batteries.

No it doesn't as the post above shows it's not the Battery it's the lack of use that is causing the problem.

Quote

I tend to do infrequent long journeys rather than lots of short journeys. Part of the reason why I went hybrid rather than full EV. I recently left the car for 22 days without use. It started fine. The 12v battery would have been well charged from the heavy use prior to that.

 

[Jimota]

I’ve been following this thread with great interest.  I will be in Australia for 5 weeks during the winter months of Feb/Mar and my car will be parked outside my flat.  My parking bay is nearly always in shadow and I’m unable to position it facing southwards so a solar charger wouldn’t really be a good investment.  As an alternative, I could purchase a portable jump starter but I’m not sure if they are any good and more importantly, are they safe and compatible with hybrid batteries.  Would be grateful for any advice or recommendations.

[Dala]

I have now purchased Portable Power Stations "ecoflow river pro".  I will try it next week and post some photos here.

[Mooly]

I have an 03 Corolla sat on the drive that belonged to my father. It's done 40k in all that time and from around 2013 to 2019 did as little as 500 miles some years. It has had one Battery in 2012 which is still fitted and still fine. It never sounds anything less than fully charged when starting, even in the depths of winter.

 

20 hours ago, Cyker said:

Personally I recommend driving it more - The car is a total riot and should be driven at every available opportunity along interesting and scenic roads

 Took the oil burner (the 1.33 Auris for a spin early this morning... fast motorway and then scenic and just for fun. Had the revs in the high numbers at times and clocked up over 100 miles, oil level dropped around 5 mm. Using 10W40 which is so much better than the 0W20 in regards of 'refinement' and quiet running. 89k and counting... I've never taken a car to the 100k mark.

The Battery issues you all experience are I'm sure down to a progressive decline in charge level over many months. Its cummulative. The 24/7 current draw is the cause and unless you can frequently bring the charge back to a genuine 100% the Battery will start to lose capacity.  

[Derek.w]

Its not the Battery but the way its charged ie alternator against DCtoDC charging.

On top of this todays cars have a lot more electronics pulling at the Battery even in hibination mode.

[Mooly]

24 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

On top of this todays cars have a lot more electronics pulling at the battery even in hibination mode

That is the number one fundamental reason.

Charging via a DC/DC convertor isn't a problem if it were to replicate what an alternator could do...  they could be made to but they don't for various reasons. An alternator can be good for 70 or more amps once up to a decent speed and that helps a great deal putting that initial charge back into a discharged Battery.

I suspect a lot more thought will go into much lower power electronics in later models.